Nothing will stop my love for Brugs and I have always been more than willing to share anything I know about them and even say which crosses I made to my friends here. However it is upsetting to see that information on another website that I don't even belong to and to know the information was taken and posted on their site without my permission.
New ABADS website!
Thank you for the comments snowhermit. If it was me-- I would have been contacting an attorney. I'm more worried about ABADs having the authority of the registration of the brugs and then they pull this it makes me wonder.....hmmmmm
I'm soooo confused......
I understand CC--it took me awhile to get it. After all this and where is Bruno? He started this thread.
lolol. you are kind DR.
I am somewhat confused also. I do no that anger helps no one. If I were personally affected by this by having a picture of mine or a link to it posted on a websitei where I did not want it, I would simply ask them to remove it. I feel infringed upon almost daily i.e. rude drivers, inconsiderate people in stores, brazen telemarketers, ruthless politicians, air pollution and the list could go on. If I let my infringed upon rights turn to anger, I would be angry quite a bit of the time. For me, I take a problem and do what needs to be done to resolve it the most intelligent way that I can. I know that we are all different and this is just me and the way I think.
Frannie, I totally agree but there is a lot of history behind this story. And reasons we/I feel like we/I do.
the vh saga has taken it's toll on the DG brug forum here at least 3 times in a big way. And we've always made it through. we will again.
Amen ~~
Ms Frannie, i wish i lived next to you.
i'm not mad, i must say though it really freaked me out to see they had scoured the internet and listed plant info, without contacting the sites at all!!!!!
I am not angry BrugNanny, just very dissapointed that someone would take information from others without asking permission to benefit their site and cause mistrust in the Brug world.This is NOT the way to earn the respect of the Brug hybridizers.
Why don't we all move together! The have communal(sp?) housing near here. Sorry I tried to get us to laugh....
DR we talked about that before. How much ground do you have down there? :-)
Arlene . . I wish you lived next door to me also!!
I would never use anyone's pictures on a website without their permission.
12 acres now and 3 + more in a couple of months. You would love it I still have lavender blooming!
12 acres would hold a bunch of us. Have to keep enough room for the brugs, bananas, elephant ears, and many other plants that we all like though. I love the smell of fresh lavender. It doesn't grow all that well up here. Seems to die back some and then looks shaggy.
It loves no water and crummy lime soila and sun--no snow! If you grow all of that up there you need to move in with Arlene! Did you here that "A" make some room! Wait Kell lives in CA! yes, I have deviated from the thread topic.
I am disappointed and dismayed at the anger and hostility I've just read.
Let me start by saying that I've not viewed the site that's responsible for all this ruckus. After what I've just read, I don't think I want to!
While I certainly agree that's good manners at the very least to ask permission before posting links to anyone's personal websites or pics, just how have any of you been harmed by what's happened? And all the people I see crying so loudly have been coming to this site for months if not years now, and posting this same info for all to see. While I certainly think credit in print is due to the people who hybridized and/or grew off and named each cultivar, it's not like anyone, anywhere, is making any money from this, at least so far as I can tell. If you don't like having info about your personal hybrids posted on the ABADS site, why can't you just (quietly) ask that it be removed? Seems to me that having your cultivar posted there would certify its bona fides---if credit is correctly given. If it's not, then ask that the ommission be corrected.
Several months back, ABADS published their intention to try and compile a comprehensive list of all named brug cultivars, including, wherever possible, pictures and hybridizing information. This sounded like a good idea to me, and I certainly don't recall hearing anyone speaking out against the idea. In fact, the suggestion to compile such a list has been made over and over here at Dave's.
(Before anyone asks, no, I'm NOT a member of ABADS, or BGI, or any other brug organization. I just love the darned things, okay?)
When I first started reading this thread, I found it slightly funny---until I read the post where Oblambert, normally the mildest of men, is in a swearing frenzy with someone who might best remain unnamed. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
From the very first time I logged onto the Web, I was aware that anything I posted might be available to anyone in the world. The agreement we all signed when joining Dave's Garden says that Dave has the right to do basically anything he wants to with anything we post here, so why has anyone posted anything they wanted to keep secret?
By now I've probably p*ssed everyone here off at me, but I don't care. I think you're all acting like whining, spoiled children.
If I'm wrong---and heaven knows, I've been wrong more than once in my life---would someone please explain to me why this sort of infantile behavior IS appropriate?
And finally---would this have reached the boiling point so quickly had ABADS been run by anyone other than Vicki Harding? I really think a lot of folks here still have a grudge against this woman, and I think it's time to forgive and at least try to forget. She may be no angel, but she's not Satan either, folks.
Anyone who wishes to bless me out please e-mail me directly, because I'm not very sure I'll be back here anytime soon. I think I'd rather hang out at the kindergarten down the street.
MsBatt, the boiling point was not reached here, because of VH leading ABADS, but because of what she stands for. In other words, if ABADS for example had another leadership acting the same way our reactions would have been exactly the same. On the other hand and in between the lines I also say, that if VH had acted differently on several occations she would be best friends with all of us, so there is nothing personal in it. Just a reaction towards an action.
You can`t throw a stone in the water and not expect to see rings of waves.
Ms Batt, please do not call me "you people".
It took a lot of nerve to stealth the other sites and to list their flowers without permission.
Do you think Kyle Courtney and Monika would have liked to have been asked for permission?
edit to say: Ms Batt, did you not read kyle's, monika's, tonny's and ludgers posts? Some shared much info with us, and i am sure such info won't be shared any more.
This message was edited Thursday, Jan 9th 6:54 AM
Wow! The links to my sites are gone now. :) My credit to the ABADS webmaster for that :)
Arlene, as for sharing info I am not the one that have the most of it. I am still a beginner trying to figure things out my own way by "blind-crossing" (crossing everything to everything to see, how their genes interact and take it from there). I still don`t want to make a secret out of what I find out during the blind-crosses, but I agree that the number of people I like to share this knowledge with has narrowed in a bit. I was reminded a short time ago not to focus on the bad stuff happening, but to focus of friends that can be trusted and share experience with them. That is what I will do and let the rest sail their own boats.
Tonny, my ship is next to yours!
A thought-if you do not want your pictures linked to the ABADS site then temporarily remove them from your site. Then send the webmaster a letter stating that you do not want your information included on their site. If you want to give permission fine, -if not, fine but ABADS should get permission to use them. It is normal practice and good manners to ask permission. Even those who have no feeling one way or the other about VH are offended when their information is used or linked to without permission.
Does anyone know the name of the webmaster?
My heads spinning! My honest opinion, or should I say observation!!!, is that Vicki must have stepped on alot of toes in order to get what she wants! What does she want? Because whether we like it or not It's a fact that people very rarely do something without expecting something out of it for themselves! Vicki wants to be listened to, she wants to be noticed, she wants authority and recognition...these are all ok, but unfortunatly and probably because of what happened when Vicki was a member of DG (I can't really say cause i wasn't here) i also sense that she may have been hurt badly by it all, makeing her vengeful and appear selfish an unjust! I've also sensed that allot of people are afraid to disagree in anyway with Vicki, which in the long run couldn't be beneficial to the society itself! Vicki's a good looking woman and goodlooking people are usually used to being the centre of attention and being nice only when they want to be but she'd want to be carefull for her own sake that she doesn't turn ABADS against her, as that'll really hurt!
I hope this posting is seen in the way in the way it was written! As an observation and not a dig at Vicki herself, I do like her, she's always been helpfull to me! I Don't like arguing with anyone!
for anyone thinking that this is a peace offering, please rethink that. It didn't take any effort to make live links to stores and such under some of the brugs. It actually was probably harder to make sure that none of the links to here and BGI were active. This is a trust issue. One word in an email to the president of BGI that this was going to happen. BGI was started because we didn't want to be part of abads, not because we couldn't. So you can imagine if you've taken a stand against something and then your name is all over their site??
Desertrose,
Brugs are my large love...no abads and no vh will change my mind and my love to BRUGS and to my BRUGFRIENDS all over the world.
I told about some things which happened years ago in Europe.
( an other thread).
It´s only making money...seeing a special internet company from Germany with living link (URL) at abads talked to me more then a whole book with 3ooo pages.
I was laughing and laughing and talked to Monika: See, two black birds have met....
Next months will show who will have the better crossings.
I know to which one ( to whom ? ) I will give informations about my crossings. Also I know what already is sprouting in my sowingbed ( warmed up )...
all my friends can look forward, even the Rothkirchfans...
Arlene and Tonny,
I agree all your words you both have written.
GL
Bruno, the day VH was kicked out of here was the day that Cala called dave to report that out of nowhere the AGI?? federal ag agents showed up at her nursery and asked to see every brug that she had. Cala told dave that VH had called them, and somehow we all believed her as VH came onto this site without announcing who she was and went so far as to tell people she had read all the old threads so that she would know who had ordered from overseas so that she could make sure no brug was traded that hadn't been here for two years.
sound like a fairy tale? you betcha..... in other words, she came to this site acting in a manner she is acting now. and i really don't care, she can be just who she is, but she doesn't have to drag me into it.
Bruno thanks for coming back on. I was wondering where you have been since you stirred up this mess by starting this thread..HA! HA! Maybe you can ask VH for the reason behind all of this and ask her to put it in writing and share it with us at DG. Maybe that will clear the air on her intentions.
OMG, I never knew that!
Arlene,
visit me in Germany,lol. You can walk through my garden and GHs and " steel " what you want...
GL
Ludger, that invitation could almost make me get on a plane! I'm gonna start saving my money, what a joy a european tour would be!
Bruno, i guess i thought someone would have told you in email. there are probably 10-12 old timers who can verify this. we started calling her the brug police shortly before she "left".
Arlene save me a seat!
Barbara, I agree. I don`t know who the webmaster are, but the webmaster link open a mail to the mail address that VH used to write from.
Arlene, we are in the SAME boat *lol*
Bruno, I don`t know exactly if she is beautiful. Mayby 5.5-6 on my scale *lol* I have told 8 and 9 hasta lavista in your next life, baby for less. In the real world only character and mutual trust count and beauty just ashes blowing around in the wind. *lol*
Wow, who needs TV! This is facinating stuff! I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the characters,and plot twist though. Will we soon get a simplified version of what happened, and if Calla is ok now?
Sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for the next episode.....
Donna
After monitoring this thread into the evening, and catching up this morning, I'm glad to see things are starting (I hope) to settle down a bit.
This morning, two expressions came to my mind:
1) Bad publicity is still publicity; and
2) A picture is worth a thousand words.
Ask any business: publicity, no matter how negative, still gets your name into people's heads. This isn't even a case of negative publicity; and having your hybrid's names (and you as the hybridizer) listed on another website gives credence to both the breeder and the plants.
Now about those pictures equalling a thousand words...
To anyone looking for an authoritative source of brug information, a site that has images and complete information about each brug is preferable to a site that lists only names and parentage.
To tell the truth, it appears the growers here have the upper hand - you've bred the plants and therefore you currently hold the only images for many cultivars. You also have access to a ready-made database, where you can build complete, detailed entries for each plant, rather than putting the burden on a webmaster to create each entry, upload images, and maintain the whole thing.
I suggest that you throw your efforts into building up the BDB with brug entries, replete with images whenever possible. That's what will distinguish a mere list from a bona fide "gallery."
Is Calla ok now? Or did she lose her burgs?
Donna, this happened last year, i think in january, and she passed inspections with flying colors. they did go back later to inspect the ones that were frozen to the ground during their first trip (not in greenhouse), and those also passed!
go vols....it was the shock! thanks for spending your time on sorting this out.
After cooling down a bit overnight, I have decided to not let a few run me off. I learned the true colors of a couple of the female members in DG yesterday; I already knew the true colors of VH. Bruno describes VH perfectly, in my opinion. I would love to say more, but will not. Those who are sticking up for her should wake up though.
I am keeping some of my brugs....but fully intend on trashing a few seedlings if I do not hear from Calalily.
Bruno.....I was very surprised to see your posting describing your thoughts about VH.....I apologize for thinking of you as her mole. I know she has at least one mole in here, because whoever it is used to pass on some of the information from my postings in here.
Owen I wish I could hug you!