Need grammar help - please!

DD and I need help with wording on a brochure. She belongs to a group called Junior Nebraska Cattlemen. (I think it should be cattlepeople in order to be "politically correct.)

Here's the question. Do you use "is" or "are" when stating Junior Nebraska Cattlemen? In other words - Junior Nebraska Cattlemen is .........

I think it should be is because Junior Nebraska Cattlemen is a single organization.

"is"

Single Organization

Junior Nebaraska Cattlemen 'is' an organization.
The JNC 'is/are' discussing the proposal.


This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 18th 10:40 AM

This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 18th 10:05 AM

where is Kjo? didn't she have some kind of English Major?

I agree with Jianhua it should be are.
I would refer to is as "Cattlepersons"

Junior Nebraska Cattlemen
Junior Nebraska Cattlepeople
Junior Nebraska Cattlepersons

Of the three items,I prefer the second.
It reads fluently,I feel.
both 'cattle' and 'people' end in /l/ sound.
And besides,
'cattle',singular in form,but plural in meaning.
So it is with 'people'.

I've been out of college for over 20 years, so I am only guessing here, but I would probably use the word are instead of is. Although it is a single organization, the word men/people is a plural noun with cattle being only an adjective. I wouldn't type a sentence saying "the men or people is" - I would use are instead. On the other hand if the word organization, association, club was used following the name then I would use the singular because it defines the members as a group. I hope someone has the right answer to this - I am curious myself now.

IS...

you are referring to the organization, not the people IN the organization.

think Carol is right here. Depending on the sentence. you say
'...the organization whatever is..'
and '...the Cattlemen are...'

What is the sentance you're using it in?

Our national agricultural group for young people is called The Young Farmers Club and is referred to as IS not ARE. The words are referring to a name of a singular group and is would be the correct form in this case.

Perhaps adding something like Club, Group, Association or similar might help it look less like a grammatical error.

Sorry Jian, I had to laugh at cattlepeople, that to me sounds like a Minoan myth of the Minataur or the Atlantian experiments!

Cattlepersons! Really.!!?? I wouldn't mess with that. Somehow it doesn't have that old west ring to it. I would agree that the organization is singular, therefore is would be used. However you may be able to avoid one hassle by saying "Members of the Cattlemen's Association are discussing ....." the meaning being the members are doing something, not the club. Be sure to tell us how this came out.

"is" is correct, as in "JNC is a fine group".



This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 18th 4:26 PM

The group (Junior Nebraska Cattlemen) is singular. Therefore use "is".
I like Mary's way of giving you a choice tho...as in, "Members of the Cattlemen's Association are".

Way to go, MaryE, just the perfect solution.

As for the name of the group being pc, I think it should occur to the fairer sex to bring this up for review. In light of today's awareness, the old West seems to have overlooked many of the contributions of the womenfolk, and to perpetuate the sentiment for the sake of sentimentality
is to add insult to injury. Cattlefolk, cattlepeople, cattleraisers (a similar name is used here in Texas for one group) all sound better than cattlemen to me. I am all in favor of being recognized as a woman of value.

jianhua, are you changing cattle in mid-stream? :-)

Oh my - I never expected such a response. As far as changing the name - I more or less added that comment as a sidebar. In essence, as Mary indicated, this group is an offshoot of the Nebraska Cattlemen. They've been around a long time and it will be a long time before that name gets changed. Here is one sentence that we used a singular verb:

The Junior Nebraska Cattlemen provides endless opportunities for youth interested in the beef and agriculture industries.

Thanks so much for your help.

A branch of my family raise cattle in IN, the group is "Cattle Growers' Assoc." Sounds more like they are raising wheat!

Harper Dictionary of Comtemporary Usage
suggests to use 'business people' instead of 'businessmen'
in order to avoid ignoring the existence of women workers.
So that is why i said 'Junior Nebraska Cattlepeople'.
If one day my local county had such an association,
I would suggest it to be named as
'Junior Shangshui Cattlepals'.):

Jian

Yes people would be a correct useage, so would person. It just conjured up a picture in my mind.

In the UK, we are either a dairyman (or women or person), a cowman (or women or person) or a stockman (or women or person), depending one what breeds the cattle are, what your job was and the gender of the individual, persons as a group or in a situation where gender was indeterminate. In an advertisement one would request for a stockperson or persons, never stockpeople. Why this is so, I don't know.

I always called myself a stockman or dairyman, didn't make any difference to me, we all did the same job but it isn't a comfortable term for everyone and I repect that.

Yes,Baa,I agree .
Your comments are from the actual language.
Only sometimes ,i think ,
the English language is just a little crazy.
If I meet a girl selling newspapers,
I don't know if I will call her
a newsboy or a newsgirl.):
Thanks Baa for your tuition!

Jianhua, more than "a little crazy". Full of crazy (the English language, that is ;D

The Junior Nebraska Cattlemen invite you to...

The Junior Nebraska Cattlemen invites you to...

You decide which one sounds more graceful.

As for politically correct, the current head of HP/Compaq, one of the world's largest corporations, is a woman. Her business card says "Chairman".

When I was in university, I worked in restaurants, as a busboy and then a waiter. Today, in the national chains serving up mass~market fodder, they are called "servers". How demeaning.

Adam.

HP/Compaq Head might prefer not to be mistaken for a Charlady or Charwoman...

Well, maybe "server" is more demeaning than "waiter", but now with the personal introductions it balances out... I always wonder if we are expected to introduce the dining party to the waitperson... will he then call us each by name throughout the meal? There is dignity in all work, regardless of title.

Agreed. All honest work is dignified work. I worked rather hard for my money in NYC restaurants. At one in the morning after the last diner left, I could be found counting my paltry tips and praying for aspirin and a hot bath.

"Hi, my name is Cindy and I'll be your server tonight," makes me cring with embarassment each time I hear it.

Next the corporate feeding chains will be calling them..., "WAITRONS," as the required false cheer is nearly robotic.

I don't think we need to worry ourselves too much about Carly Fiorina at HP being mistaken for a man, though.

Adam.

Folks, (giggle here) the discussion brings to mind a bitty thing from high school years:
"A centipede was happy quite,
Until a frog in fun,
Said "Pray, which leg comes after which?"
It raised her mind to such a pitch-
She lay distracted in a ditch,
Considering how to run."
:-)
Nebraska_Jewel, I wouldn't object to whichever you choose.
Love y'all.

Adam, we are in agreement. The newest 'trend' here is for the person serving the food to talk to the diners while 'scootched' down to table level rather than standing up straight. That makes me cringe, I want to tell them to get their faces off my table. Good expression: "false cheer", the "script" loses something when the "actor" no longer even makes eye contact. John

Farizona...that is cute. Jo

The phrase "I'll be your server" is getting pretty close to servant isn't it?

rename the group "Cornhusker Cowpunchers". This way there is no gender reference and no one (or is that noBODY) should care if y'all are referred to as an is or an are.