trade lists should be only for paying members

I did a search for the chinese lantern seeds and it turns out, I sent an email to someone who is not a paying member on the site. As it turns out some people set up huge trading lists, but who can say if they are legit people or spammers, if they did not join the site?

If someone did not pay to join the site, I would not trade with them because who is to say, they will actually send you anything back, and maybe they just wanted to get people to send them free stuff?

There are members who have been very upfront that they will only trade with Dave's Garden members, Others have said they'll do SASE with non-subscribers (getting the envelope in hand before sending out the trade.) Obviously, it's everyone's prerogative to handle the non-subscriber/subcriber issue as they see fit.

On the other hand, the tradelist and tradetracker tools (along with the Plants Database and Garden Watchdog, garden journal, etc.) are all offered free for anyone to use, so just because someone has their tradelist here doesn't automatically make them suspect, IMO.

(I think an argument could be made that if someone takes the time to set up their tradelist, they are probably on the up-and-up, as opposed to someone who simply uses the email system to contact you for a trade, without taking the time to put down some "roots" here ;)

I just saw the chinese lantern, and clicked the email without looking more carefully to see this person had a huge list of plants about 96, but was not a paying member. Then I kicked myself, for sending that email.

Hi, Bug_Girl. I've been considering the same thing, since I hear from people from time to time looking for seeds of the plants I post on the PDB. Though I don't necessarily refuse to trade with non-members, I'm definitely more committed to trading with members. I can't even say if that is a policy or just a feeling. Usually, when I receive an email, I diregard those that do not offer a member name. If they offer a name, I look it up on the membership list. If the name isn't listed there, I'm less likely to reply, or I might reply but not agree to send... it depends on the way the conversation goes.

If they are a member of Dave's, subscribed or unsubscribed, I take a look at the list of data they've contributed. I'd probably send seeds regardless, but I'd absolutely share whatever I've got with someone who gives back a bit of what they get from Dave's Garden.

On the other hand, MaVieRose says she's willing to trade with non-members because she hopes doing so will encourage people to join. She's a very generous person, and perhaps I should follow her example. In the longrun, I guess we all decide for ourselves. There's an old saying, "Never bet more than you are willing to lose." I guess that could be applied to trading, as well.

I would suggest that before the email link is used, it could say "warning this person not a paying member do you wish to proceed?" Then if they wanted to trade anyway, they could do so.

Many of the contributions to the PDB are from non paying members. Their reasons for not paying may be as varied as the sands of the see but they contribute a great deal all the same. I have always been happy to share seeds with these people and as a result have made a few friends through email. I have also refused a few trades that appeared from emails that just didn't feel right. So I guess I'll just keep playing it by ear.

I am new guy I am up in the air on this one,good points on both sides,I know my Dues were worth it so far.

Here is what gets me, who would spend the time to list 96 plants to trade and then not join? Sounds fishy, I could see if they were just listing a few plants to trade. Sounds like they are actually in the nursery business, instead.

Yes, Zany, I agree about the "feel right" part. I only send seeds, so I don't have much of an investment, but I can certainly understand if that is not the case. I just love to think of my seeds making someone feel good about their garden, so I'd be inclined to send them out if it "feels right". If we just keep in mind this is all entirely voluntary, it makes it all less stressful, as well.

BugGirl: I have to admit I'm preferencial to members, but as Zany says, others contribute here as well. I've toyed with the idea of just posting this message in my trade journal: List available upon request. They can email me through Dave's, and then I can decide whether I want to proceed or let it roll by. I wonder if that would work.

Yes, I agree I would encourage people to add to data base without having to pay to join the site. On garden web you have to join, however, I don't like to email strangers, I had a lot of problems with Klez Worm, because someone got hold of my email, who had Klez Worm.

Then Klez Worm started to send out 1000's of bulk emails in my name with the Worm in them. I got hate email, from people who thought I was sending them the Klez worm, it was a nightmare.

And I had virus protection and I never had the Klez worm, but still I had to change my email address.

Yes, that's so disheartening. One wonders why anyone would want to invent these worms and viruses just to cause all this unhappiness. I can understand your concern. I'm pretty computer ignorant, so I don't know for sure, but I don't think such things can pass through our DG emails. That's probably the reason we can't send attachments through DG email, and I'm glad of it.

Once an email is received through Dave's we have the opportunity to respond or let it roll by... just as Dave states at the bottom of the emails. It sounds like your experiences have given you good reason to be cautious, so I wouldn't blame you at all for not wanting to correspond. The person who sends the email knows that too.

I've had many great trades with paying and non-paying traders..Remember the journals and trade lists and many features are for anyone that wishes to use them..Also many had trade lists here before we started paying..
Larkie

I too, have had several really nice trades
from non-subscribing members here.
Just do what feels right to you, I guess.
OD :-)

Klez worm does email spoofing which means it steals your address to use for "from", I never had the worm, but it stole my email to use to trick other people. I suggest anyone who does not know about it do a web search, there is a lot of information about it. It even sends people phoney cures for itself, which are in fact the worm. Nothing is safe anymore.

Subscriptions are only a little over a year old here, and long before that many of us traded on another site without subscriptions. I have had some real doozies for traders, and this year I have been terrible about dropping the ball myself. My excuse or reason is health concerns that keep getting in the way of my desire to go full speed ahead. I am not as reliable as I intend to be. My subscription hasn't helped one bit in that regard, I still fall behind. But when I meet a stranger on the street or on the internet, I love to share my seeds and plants. I will go out of my way to get seeds or cuttings for someone I just met in the grocery store or here. I haul bags and boxes of wildflower seeds around and freely give them away, no trade, no personal gain, except the joy of sharing gardening joy. Some people might not have $15 to spare! Some might be here by a slim thread, and it might be the brightest spot of their day or week. Gardening is my sorority. I have many sisters, and even boys are allowed. But not all of them signed up for the parade float.

Gardening does run into money over all. Depends on if you want a greenhouse or something like that or you just want a few plants that could be grown from cuttings.

the good thing about trading is that you are always free to say no if that's what you want. or just don't say anything. If it weren't for generous people, I wouldn't have a garden.

The problem with trading is the postage is expensive, unless it is seeds, plus in California, one is not allowed to ship soil.

I've been trading plants and seeds for some time now, and it is extremely rare for a GARDENER not to follow through on a trade. Sometimes LIFE gets in the way... we have to give someone the benefit of the doubt, there may be illness in the family... I do not consider POSTAGE to be a problem at all. If you were to purchase your plants, there would STILL be postage to pay, and NOT just the actual cost either, PLUS "handling". So, if I trade for a dozen Iris rhizomes, conservatively valued at $7 each, thats $84 right there (add about $9 shipping and handling) , for the mere price of about $3.85-$5.20, not a bad deal!!! Even a few hostas can have a value of $100... So, if the odd trade falls through, one is still WAY ahead of the game. John

In my last offer of the K. Gensing seeds...I got 3 people ask for them...that were not DG'ers.that was out of 26 I mailed too...in talking with them...I found we had much in common....low and behold...2 paid their money....and are now among us sharing here at DG. Mine were only seeds...but still.....spread the word...Diana....

Yes, one would save money in the case of those plants, I once paid 50 dollars for a Hosta from a Hosta grower, but they send two for one Hostas, so really it was only 25 dollars each. I would never part with either of them.

my best friend and my ex wife are both registered here but neither have the spare cash to for a paid membership. there are allot of others here like that i often see posts from people that would love to be a paid member but would rather eat that week. just because someone is not a paid member is not a reason to be prejudice against them.

Troy: I agree with you about prejudice. It is an ugly thing. It's hard to stretch a dollar these days, and it seems we're always having to make choices how we spend it.

We chose to spend the money for a computer & pay about $50 per month for cable modem access, so we drive an old car. That just wouldn't be a fair trade off for some folks, and I can respect that.

Dave's Garden is the one place I feel I get a real bang for my buck. I've made the choice to spend 4 cents a day to visit on Dave's Garden. Maybe the next guy would like to put that 4 cents into paying for groceries. It's up to each one of us to decide what we think is worthwhile or more important.

Whether we decide to make that dollar stretch further on Dave's or at the grocery store, nobody should put them down. If any subscriber choses not to trade with non-subscribers, that's their choice as well. Nobody should have to put up with prejudice.

and for those who have seen my posts and can add will realize that i understand what prejudice is. so i don;t discriminate against anyone till they show me i have a reason to on an individual basis and beleave me i am a sucker for giving someone a second chance

That's good to hear, Troy. If everybody felt that way, we'd all get along so much better here in the Garden. I've been pretty closed minded about non-subscribers as opposed to subscribers in the past. I figure, what the heck, if they can afford a computer, they can afford 4 cents a day, but it just isn't that simple. We don't all set 4 cents a day away for our annual membership, so once a year, we've got to come up with $15, and that can be a strain on someone with a limited income.

I shouldn't be making assumptions about someone else, but I reserve the right to decide who I trade with. I sure hope nobody holds that against me. I'm not in favor of shutting out anybody from asking, but I'll deal with folks on an individual basis. If you know of anyone in need of some seeds, Troy, just let me know and I'd be happy to send whatever I can spare. I know you'd do the same.

I think it's fine to make your own decision, and I believe you should have the freedom to discriminate against traders who have not shown a committment to the Garden by subscribing. At the same time, we do make the tradelists and other features freely available to non-subscribers, truly putting the freedom (and responsibility) in the hands of all the membership.

dave

Well, I never did hear from that person so clearly they were just a flash in the pan. They wanted to trade 96 plants, that was in 2001, and now they are into something else. No prejudgice here, but paying for the site, is a sign that you are committed to gardening and to daves. If no one wanted to pay, we would not even have daves, so we would not be trading and it would be a mute point, if we wanted to trade with non paying people or not.

Yesterday, I received an email from someone who had just then become a non-subscribing member. She is not a gardener, has no interest in the subject, but a search led her to one of my threads. I was astonished, but we exchanged a few emails and I learned she lives in Dallas, and her mother was a friend of Carroll Abbott for many years before he died. I hope it will lead to an opportunity to acquire some of his books, which I have always wanted to do. I am still not sure why she was doing the search, she sort of danced around that when I asked, but for someone to locate me through DG to discuss something only obliquely related to DG was interesting. It could have gone either way, fortunate or not so, and the bottom line is still---use common sense and the golden rule.

It is neat how daves threads appear in the search engine. Even my awful mis spellings. For example if I spelled a plant name wrong and posted it to daves. Then I later do a goggle search, my own mis spelling appears, but with few other search items, then I know I spelled it wrong.