our global association

Geez Tonny, I do not want to be a low level. I hate being a low level. I will have to tell everyone that I am a low level. You know I think a mistake has been made, I was meant to be rich, beautiful, forever young and most of all a highest level. Now the truth is out, I am a low level. Well, if you are going to do this Tonny , you better give each level a color and make the low level PINK!!!!!

Kell, I am low level member too, but you are right the word don`t taste well and we have to come up with another. *LOL* I am not experienced in hybridizing and I sell them as hobby too, so I can finance my breeding program and the wintergarden. I think, that I mentioned this in one of the post in the spring, that because I am not experienced yet and also sell Brugies, I feel more comfortable as common member, when this is up and running. My reasons are that BHGA is about hybridizers interests and sometimes these are in opposition to the sellers. *LOL* So simple is that. However, if I in the long run will have valuable experience to offer and also turn out to be harmless as a seller I won`t say no to an invitation to move up a level or two ... eeeh! I mean from pink to green or white. *LOL* Only time will show.

can I borrow the thinking cap just a moment?? thanks:)
I don't know that you can seperate the 'serious hybridizer' from the 'seller' without eliminating everyone. I don't see where that is a conflict. And also, your scientific background and knowledge makes you very important. Besides the fact that you are one of the most diplomatic people I've ever met.
I still nominate Tonny as executive president of BHGA. and what constitutes a would be hybridizer? what constitutes a serious hybridizer? What if you just have a committee for now of say...monika, Kyle, Gloria, Cala and you? that is an odd number, so no ties on important issues. and the five of you, that we all here trust, can decide what to do with this?
here, this cap is giving me a headache. hope I didn't overstep.

Maybe a formal invitation to those listed to be in Level 1 should be sent. Email should work, but it would be nice if each person were asked to accept the position. Some might be a little shy and if they don't want to accept the position, they could then write to Tonny and say No or Yes, I'd be delighted. Hope they would opt for the Yes. Might be a little to public just on this thread. JMHO!!

Tonny has done an extraordinary job putting together the web page and all the information and she, Kyle, Monkia, Ludger, and Gloria are very good hybridizers. I only know of their work and am sure there are other just as talented.
Presently, I do not consider myself a hybridizer-the bees have a better success rate than I do and like Tonny and many others I sell brugs to support my addiction and help pay expenses. Since I am a level 3 member to be, I would like to add several observations.Hoping not to set on anyones toes. Without clear rules as to what constitutes membership in each level, e.g. in L1 do you have to hybridize for 1year, or 20. Is it based on one plant that the bees had a hand in or 20 different varieties developed. If L3 is not allowed to view the knowledge exchanged by L2 and L1 then they have little or no chance to gain the knowledge to be voted in a higher level.
Secondly, “Only top level members can choose to dismiss a member from level 2. and level 3. for not working along BHGA`s main idea,”what is the main idea? Forgive me in all languages but it must be my cynical nature that unless you clearly state your goals 1,2, 3, etc. Those dismissals will always appear as personality differences. I can’t help myself-I worked for attorneys for 10 years. When I see language that is very open ended and there are negative consequences, I see trouble.
I may be totally out of sync with everyone else and may have missed prior discussions about this. The purpose seems to be to grow and hybridize the most beautiful brug we can and develop healthy varieties. My vision would have been where all you had to do was pay your dues and the flowers were submitted for inclusion on a registry based on criteria set forth by a committee of experienced hybridizers. For your dues, you would receive information about the latest hybridizing methods and flowers, diseases, etc.. To become a judge you would have to be a hybridizer for x number of years. I am sure there are better heads than mine and I do appreciate all the work everyone is doing.

tiG, Thanks for taking the thinking hat back. It gave me a headache too. :)Well, I am not very diplomatic, when I start to talk about levels of membership and knowledge. *L*

Shirley, Barbara is right about leaving open ends. These have to be defined, before we start sending out invitations. Arlene started the thread beautifully and simple and now we are in mud (lack of definitions) up our ears. *LOL* We have to clear that first. Think of it as baking the cake, before we invite our precious guests. :)

Barbara, thanks for your input and its nice to know, that you have followed both the connonations and the semantic development of this discussion. :) Your experience from the ten yers of working for attorneys is both needed and appreciated both in BHGA and also to help keeping this discussion on the track. The level idea is only a suggestion. Its not a finished idea, but only an empty frame, that we all can fill something in. On long term I would like BHGA to recomment Brugmansia selling Nurseries and other sources to new, inexperienced Brugmansiah ybridizers. I imagine the criterias for a recommendation can be these three points:

1. Correc product ID

2. Consceince in delivery

3. Respect for the product and the customer

A little over a week ago many of us read an e-mail including four photos from George of the French Brugmansia forum. He wrote it after recieving plants, which he had ordered from a French mail order company. His mail indicated, that the mail order company didn`t fulfill point 2. and 3.

All three points are important.

Leaving out point 1. we can buy and buy a certain hybrid.

Leaving out point 2. We can wait and wait and when the packet finally arrive the plants look like cooked spinach.

Leaving out point 3. will force us to run "hamster wheel" everytime point 1. or 2. occur and in Georges e-mail the owner of the mail order company found it okay to blame point 1. 2. and 3. on the "hamster"

No man and no hybridizer has neither the wealth or the patience for that. That is why recommendations can turn out to be important. What I try to say with the level idea is, that if everybody can vote virtually anybody in for top jobs in BHGA and because BHGA is a powerfull sharing community and a powerfull recommendation tool, it is essential to avoid, that conscienceless people not take majority. Conscienceless used here as not fulfilling point 1., 2. and 3.

Is there a place for Associate membership for individuals who wish to contribute to the organization in terms of seed/pollen donations or membership fees, but who are not necessarily hybridizers or is this organization exclusively for hybridizers?

I don't know how everyone else feels but I really don't care what "level"I'm called or whether I am allowed to vote for whatever.What I care very much about is having complete access to any knowledge,pollen,seed etc.For me,that is the whole purpose of the organization.What is shaping up here is a clique run for the benefit of a few.
Put Tonny in as Pres.See if we can get Monika,Kyle,Eric and Cala as officers.Appoint these people for multi year terms at first.Open the thing to DG members only for the first few months until we have control.The point should be to retain control until the association is on a firm footing,
not to limit access by members.

I don't consider myself to be a hybridizer either...having good luck with one seedpod does not make a hybridizer. There are many others here that can offer more to the group than I at the present time. I do so appreciate your kindness but at this time...due to personal reasons... I must decline an officers position but will be more then happy to help in any way I can.

If I can say a few words..

I'm just a hybridizer wanna be

But from being members of many clubs the one thing I've seen is its not the big breeders,(the ones who are legends) that make a club,its the people who do the work for the club(or association) .The organizers,the visionaries.Just because someone has done a ton of breeding(or hybridizing) and is completly knowledgable about the plant or animal,does not mean they would be the best officer of the association. Also ,they are usually the ones who are way too busy to deal with the tasks needed to keep the association up and running.Its like a buisness,you need the best person for the job,with expert consultants,things run smooth.


I don't want to step on any toes,and the people you've suggested are the ones who would come to my mind first,but I'm saying this organization needs organizing skills,not hybridizing skills.Those come later,let the experts do what they are best at

I agree with lots of things that have been said, and I told y'all I'm too dingie headed to be an officer.

GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Don´t make the same mistakes some german people did some years ago.........

ALL OF US HERE ARE BRUGLOVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some sell some not
Some are breeding and cooking new hybrids
Some have one Brug in garden
Some have more
Some are reading more
Some are replaying more

All people who don´t like Brugs are not HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly up here I want to have 1000 Dollars for one unrooted Brugcutting ( kidding, smile )

Some people must not pay........( kidding, smile )

Barbara, I love your thoughts !
And some other too ( sorry, I don´t have all Names from you, I hate to say: Hello Email Adress........)

I really would like to work with ( Tonny you know it ! )

Some German and Dutch Breeder are just "slowly".......

I will not work if we make differents between Members Sellers Growers or something like this.

I´ve this in poor old germany.............

Either we are one "spoiled Brugfamilie" lol or we go back to our yard and sell the PC.

Tonny you MUST be the President and all of us are good and create Members.

Sorry for this spoiled Mail
You can bounce me...........
Why not can a Breeder and Seller be a really good friend???
Greetings Ludger

joydie, I meant to post, but sick and mind is roaming:) it's not that it's for hybridizers, but some have more experience in just the kind of thing we're trying to avoid. Just like Ludger is talking about. So it's that experience that I want to see (and remember, it's just an opinion:)

tiG I am glad not to find my name there, smile.

Ludger

I am Brfreewilli
and like Monika I will stay free.
I need Brugfriends not Nr1 Nr2 or so....

Very Sorry I can not follow all replays here,may be I did missunderstand some words in this thread. Very sorry when I mailed a " bad answere ".

I hate first class and second class.

Wish you all a good Sunday
Ludger

want me to nominate you?? LOL!!!

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL Ludger, it is not CLASS but LEVEL!!! LOL. I personally have decided I am the Pink Level regardless of who is in it!!! It is for those who have proved that they are pollinators NOT and cannot make their own pink brugs. Now, if you are in the Pink Level you get all the special pink brugs mailed to you next day air after the bloom has been posted on Dave's. If there is a double or triple pink, you get that one hand delivered the very night it was posted on Dave's.
These rules I can live with!

Now where do I send my dues??

What exactly is this organization trying to avoid? I keep reading and rereading the posts ...WHAT EXACTLY IS THE MANDATE OF THIS GROUP? TiG I appreciate your response and Ludger I'm in agreement with you one hundred percent as I am with Barb, CC and a few others who have made excellent points. I'm asking for clarification as the name specifies HYBRIDIZERS association and therefore since I'm not a hybridizer I asked if there was an Associate membership. Perhaps the distinction with the levels of experience regarding Hybridization skills is misleading...maybe that's the problem that needs addressing...just my opinion and I'm not trying to create problems...just looking for clarification.

The problem is that a lot us are feeling that we will be excluded,we are not good enough,or not someones favorite person,so we will be left out in the cold.If this is a Hybridizers Association,who decieds who can become a member,or are we ALL going to be welcomed as members? Will we be excluded from parts of the association because we will be "just members"?

Hi guys...My few words...

-People should not be rated or divided!
-Don't make it competative or a popularity contest!
-We all learn from each others experience and should all be free to access that knowlege!
-People feel pressurized and awkward when nominated by others but enthusiastic when nominated by themselves!

Hmmm..Think I'm spending to much time with my hippy psychologist friend!



Bruno Nicolai
Co.Wicklow-The garden of Ireland

Edit >I've just noticed i've posted the 100th reply! LOL

This message was edited Sunday, Sep 29th 4:04 PM

I think if everyone would first go read or reread all the old threads on what kinds of things we were looking to avoid or help out with it would help. Seems like some people are getting mad, don't. This isn't about leaving anyone out or anything like that. One of the main reasons that I remember anything like this coming up last year was hybridizers getting ripped off, names being changed on brugs, standards to go by and things like that. Lots of things are being read into that don't apply. Do a search on DG with BGHA in the box and reread all last years threads.

I for one read all the posts and if the organization is to protect hybridizers from being ripped off from all their hard work that is understandable.

I still think the best way to start with an organization is to post its mandate, goals, etc. and then there wouldn't be any confusion or the posts won't sound like people are being excluded.

Keeping my humble opinions to myself:) LOL

perhaps we should sit back and let Tonny take in all that's been suggested here and come back to us at a time when he's ready.

well tiG, I am not going to give up my Level Pink no matter what Tonny decides. It suits me well! I am just waiting now for all those fancy pinks to get here.

I would love to have 2 Frosty Pinks:) LOL

JUST KIDDING:) I may never get another brug if I keep this up:)

Owen

My bet is that the idea dies again just as it did last year.
We all seem to get fired up for a few days then go on to other things.

i think you're right JT, maybe someone will sort it out and then present it.

I hope it gets off the ground this year. Right now many growers are working to get prepared for winter and it is hard to think of much else. Maybe winter is a good time for brain storming.

Barbara,

I love your words !!! Very Thanks for this understanding !

G Ludger

thanks to those who finally got this up and going.

Tonny, it looks great. I thought you had decided not to finish it. Do we need to send you photos. Wow, with yours and Ludgers we will have lots to look at.

Susie, am i blonde or is it mr plantaholic's site?

Arlene, geez, I'm not sure now, totally lost as usual!!! OK, Tonny has a site, Ludger has a site? Does Bruno have a site too? There is the Yahoo group too. I love it, all different. Imagine a few years ago, you couldn't find out anything about brugmansias and now lots of info out there!!

Cala........... we could have a site........called lost as usual!!!

Where is Ludger's site?

Oops, it was Mr. Plantaholic's site. I had them mixed up, lol. Told y'all if I had a brain I'd be dangerous!! I tried to find the link, can't find it.

Well, its a tough decision, if BHGA will continue or not. Currently I run it as an info site for hybridizers and hope to update through the next months. However if retailers again gives crab to people like George had to deal with or if another hybridizer is cheated on, then we will see ... It will also be nice to have one site on the internet, where we can write about, what is really going on. On the forums this will be considered bad tone no matter how relevant the info may be. Think of, how many have been disneyed from the GW. *lol* I will spend some of the winter time studying the juristical aspects surrounding these histories and also the laws, that apply to postal order companies. I can`t do much in a courtroom aybe, but I can inform newbees not to fall for the same traps as other was caught in. Consider it a critical consumers guide. *lol*

We could really use that info Tonny!! I hope you continue with your site, the more the merrier! And each one has its own personality! Yours would be great Tonny! Boy, I use alot of !!! don't I??