I need some advice from subscribers: a dilemma

I am not sure how to say this; obviously if you are reading this it cannot apply to you.

In the past few months, I have posted things that I have available for trade or SASE, and almost immediately I have gotten e-mails requesting what I am offering. Wonderful. That is what I wanted. I have also gotten, usually almost immediately, requests from non-members, or non-subscribers (never happened with a subscriber) for things; they request things; when I answer letting them know the amount of postage, they write back with their addy, and then I never hear again. After a week or two, I write again, but silence. The same people over and over do this.

What should I do? Ignore them in the first place? What do others of you do? I have sent things (I am very trusting) without waiting for postage, and I have never gotten it, never got a word of acknowledgement, etc. I know that things happen, I know I have forgotten a few things, I know that I am able to procrastinate, but then a month later I hear from those same people again asking for things I have posted.

Almost always they ask for the very unusual things I have only a few offers of; I don't want to promise people and then with no follow through, I have to turn down the others who request, and after a couple of months, I still have the seeds.

Please help with suggestions; I am not referring to any one who is reading this; as I said first off, it has only happened with people who either aren't registered at all, or with people who are non-subscribers. That is why I posted it here.

For anyone I had made a commitment to and forgot about, please forgive me; if I don't answer within a reasonable amount of time, please write me again. My memory is sometimes non-existent. And, since I am using a shared address, e-mails sometimes get erased without my knowledge, and I have no way of knowing if I got a reply. That adds to my above dilemma.

I have spoken with a few subscribers about this, and they tell me that there are a couple of vultures on the Internet who just leap on every offer, and never follow through. What have some of you done about this? I don't want to stop trading; I don't want to keep my friends from sharing some of my treasures just because there are lurkers out there. I also don't want to do all the trading here in the subscriber-only area; I don't think that is what this is for. I have made some good friends among the people who are registered but not subscribed, and I am not accusing them of this either. I am in a very big dilemma. And as I say, it is the same few (maybe 20 that I have had problems with) over and over.

I also am not looking for a "blackball" list of people to avoid; I have no interest in pointing fingers. As I said, I know I have been guilty of failing to follow-through for a while, until I am reminded. I am just interested in learning what some others have done in this situation: what has or has not helped, etc.

You can put in your inital offer 'to subscribed members only'. I've gotten some and had to check to see if they were members.

Ignore them.

"eyes"

If it is the same people over and over I would email them back stating that since you still have not heard from them regarding postage on a previous request you will not be able to hold the new offering for them. ( I hate to see a non member ignored since they may decide to join if a trade or two goes well for them)

Zany's got a point.......but I certainly wouldn't give them more than 2 chances to come thru....especially when you have no idea whom you are dealing with.

"eyes"

I think it's just one of those things you have to deal with. Whenever you post ANYTHING for trade it seems a lot of people come out of the woodwork and are suddenly your buddy. I usually don't send anything until I have the person's postage in hand - unless I know them. If I have plenty of seed to go around I'll send to anyone that asks. If I only have a bit of something special I'll only send for trades or people I know. I seem to have a lot of people contact me for seeds that I'm not offering or had offered long ago. I usually ingnore them if I don't have it or don't want to deal with it.

Hi Kathy

We all have been burned one time or another, some of us harder than others. Long story.

There are some good non-member traders but I to now am very careful who I trade with after beening burnt so badly this spring.

I never send out trades before the SASE comes or the postage. Some people also don't send what you ask for, so that can be a small problem.

I try to do my best to send what I can based on what I get.

There are some lurkers out there and they know who's new and who to try to take advatage of, so just be careful is all I can say.

Huggs Mike

If it's the same people doing this I would keep a list of their names and when they request something again I would e-mail them and let them know that since they had not followed through on previous requests you will not hold any seeds or plants for them.

I don't get many requests, as my stuff is so common since I'm still a fairly new gardener. I have NO exotic or unusual stuff at all. What I tell them, if I don't recognize them fromt he boards, is that I will hold their request for 2 weeks while I await the postage. If I still haven't received it, then I forget about it. I've just recently started doing this though, because I was in the same boat as Kathy was for a little while. Waiting and wondering.

I'm not in favor of ignoring non-subscribers either, since I DID subscribe one person when she contacted me about a trade. I liked her!

When I first joined Daves I had some lovely plants that I moved and posted that I would send for postage. I shipped and requested that they look and send the psotage to me. For the most part all did - but several did not and I lost about 50.00 - I am sorry to say some were Dave members. I have had request since from these people and I remind them that they "owe" postage for previous mailed plants. One person told me that they were on a fixed income and and I sent to many plants and I should have known that she couldn't afford the psotage. (that day my mind reading skills were not turned on) So unless some one chats with me and I see that they are a regular on Daves I tell them postage then plants/seeds.

Lupine

It's so unpleasant when trades/SASEs turn bad. I've all but given up trading for now, it got cheaper to go out and buy the seed I wanted than to pay out postage for all the seeds I was sending out in the hope that they might reciprocate with sending the seeds or postage.

I never send SASE now without receiving postage first (unless I've got to know them or have had similar dealings with them before), one lady requested 50+ packets of seed and sent half the postage I asked for. I emailed her several times to get the rest before I would send them out. Some treat you as if you are stealing their seeds/plants from them! Also I sent a bundle of seeds to someone in the UK only to find the person selling my seeds on Ebay a month later LOL ... he was a good an swift trader though and enterprising chap it seems (I just wished Baa thought of that first *G*). I mailed him and he was up front about it (he'd germinated the amount he wanted from each packet and decided to sell the rest) so we had a bit of a laugh too.

All the unusual seeds are for trade only, although I can be persuaded to part with them if I get the feeling they person is a budding enthusiast and I have a few left over. Friends are always welcome to any seed I have spare.

You probably already have a few people you won't forget in a hurry, good and bad traders. I like to keep the names to myself for future reference. At the end of the day, if you find you find you can't fufill a promise but notify the other person, then that's being honest, or when you feel you may have forgotten someone and post it up to say who did I leave out? It's when you know full well you're not going to honour the trade that's so dishonest. I've no worries about sending anything out to someone who writes, 'I can't send the postage till the end of the month because I'm on a tight budget'. I'm more likely to say forget the postage and enjoy the seeds when this happens and on many occasions the people I've done that for have sent something a couple of months later as a thank you. Some have even sent me photographs of the plants they've grown from the seeds. Honesty does pay off and I refuse to deal with dishonest people twice.

I keep a little journal of who has what I want,if I have what they want to trade for. I write down what I send to whom and the date. On an incoming /outgoing sheet I keep track of my trades. When I have success with something that I have recieved, I look to see who sent it and e-mail them about it. (I don't do a lot of trading because I too,only have commom types.)When I send out trades and get nothing back... I treat it as a random act of kindness as smiln32 once said in one of her posts. It helps me a lot looking at it that way! (Thanks Carla)

LL, this is what I do, I post what I have for a SASE, then the e-mails start coming in, and I reply saying, pls send a SASE to this address and indicate which seeds you want.
then as the envelopes start coming in, I fill them and send them out. Sometimes people neglect to indicate, so I just send an asortment. In some cases, I have gotten e-mails with the person giving me their address, I just go back and tell then to send the sase marked with what they want. I only worry about filling what I receive, unless it is someone from dave's, I dont mind just sending seeds to people here without postage, as I have gotten seeds in the past frommost of these members.
I think that is a fair way of doing it. send out what you receive SASEs for, and ignore the other ones.

I do exactly what Pebble does. I have a few sase's that need to be filled in a slot on my desk ~ am catching up on my (long-neglected) trades today as a matter of fact ~ and if the sase isn't there or an e-mail from a DG member in my Inbox with address, it doesn't get sent out.

Here's why I just ignore the non-members that send their address requesting sase stuff and never send an sase: either they don't understand sase (in which case they'll figure it out when they don't get anything) or (hate to say this one) they do this all the time just "trolling for freebies". I don't think the majority of them are trollers, but have heard stories that that really does happen.

Yes, there are "Trollers" as you say Wing, I just never trade with non-subscribers. I will do SASE, but only after I receive the postage. It's pretty simple - sometimes when I tell them this, I never hear from them again, and that's fine!! Even with subscribers, unless I really know them I wait for postage. I will do trades with MOST subscribers tho - the word does get around!! I don't do many Trades these days, I seem to have most of what I want already.

I so much appreciate everyone's help. It does seem as though several of the trollers (for lack of a better word) spread the word that I am an easy mark, and they seem to be the ones who are bothering me the most. I don't want to give their names or addresses in public, but for my own off-line information, I will start to keep track of them.

Baa, I have heard from a couple of other people that they quit trading with some people because, as with the man you describe, the seeds and plants they sent for SASE wound up on e-Bay, earning the unethical person a fair amount of money. If they would be upfront about the reason they want the trade it wouldn't be so bad; at least we would have the option of turning the trade down or complying, but to do it in the guise of a gardener, rather than a merchant is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as well as a few others I have talked with.

I started to post a reply to this a couple of days ago, but it was still too raw: I needed some time to overcome my intense anger, I have calmed down now, and I do appreciate everyone's understanding and helpful suggestions. Since most of my plants tend to be very uncommon (that is why I have them) I am going to be much more circumspect in how I post their availability, also; I have no problem with sharing with non-subscribers, as long as they are genuine gardeners, or are trying to be! I will find forums that match the type of plant they are, and post their availability there, so that we who actually grow the types listed are the ones that can share them. It angers me to have to do this, since so many of you have become friends through trading; posting their availability in the trading forums is how I would prefer to do it.

And Joan, you are such a blessed friend. I hope your garden has outdone itself in being happy with its wonderful owner. I am proud to say that I am the one she was referring to: surprised me by giving me the subscription! Such a wonderful thoughtful person. I had asked her whether she was a satisfied subscriber because I was trying to decide whether to be a subscriber, and she responded by paying my fee for the first year.

I also will maintain my complete list (or try to) in my journal; those who are interested in seeing my complete selection can look there (starting in a few days :) As the autumn transplanting season is drawing near, I am finding more and more of my perennials need to be thinned so I will have to get busy making my lists.