Here's a good ex. of Copyright Infringement

Another seller tipped me off that a couple of my pictures are being used on e-bay. This is not a good thing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2037890309

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2038090576

I don't know who this fella is but he must have saved my pics to his hard drive quite a long time ago. That one of the pink flower hasn't been on the web in a long time. Please remember folks it is NOT okay to use photos that aren't your own.

I hope you let him know!!!

Doesn't e-Bay have a complaints area for copyright infringements? Used to...

poppysue... I hope you have contacted 'golden_nursery' as well as eBay and your attorney. If we don't stand up for our Rights, we won't have them.

I happen to be one of those folks who save photos taken by others (gardening photos) on my hard drive, but only for my personal use, as a reference for plants I think I might want to add to my garden, or just as ref. for plants I bought/traded so I will remember what they should look like. I have a folder clearly marked "DG photos" and re-name each photo with the content, trying to leave the originator's name. (That's easier now that Dave has them automatically marked.) I also save them with thumbnails so I can search for something when I have forgotten the name... I keep it separate from my own photo folder so there is never any confusion.

What a shock that must have been - to a picture that YOU took listed on someone's Ebay page!!! I think I would have a fit! Please let us know if that person answers your email.

Have you contacted them yet?

This is terrible! You need to do all of the above Sue, and persue it quickly.

"eyes"

I'd get after him right away Poppysue.
This is bare faced robbery.

Wintermoor

It is a pity, and it is also certain that as the net has no limits, sooner or later someone will use your photos, data, whatever you publicise. As far as I know, the only way to avoid this is to have (a) small photos only and (b) to make them deliberately slightly blurred, or containig other things so as they cannot be used as "textbook illustrations".

Have you tried to photoraph your poppies with your hand holding them ? Just a thought.

Dimitri

Her hand was on one!

"eyes"

I remember seeing this picture. Another example was obvious to me the other day. I was searching for information on diverticulitis and found several "professional" pages (i.e. WebMD among others) who all had the identical text descriptions posted, along with some graphics. Someone had to have originated it, but no sources were cited on any of the sites.

Poppysue,

I almost hate to admit this, but I contacted the seller myself to ask some questions as a "buyer" would. The first response was fairly tame, but the second one was so fierce that I can't even print some of the words here.

I am maintaining my "friendly" discourse with this person, hopefully, in an effort to educate him/her on copyright infringement and such.

Something you can do - any of us can do - is contact each of the buyers of this person's products and let them know that they are dealing with someone who is, at the very least, deceptive. If they steal photos that aren't theirs, what else are they hiding? It might help to curb sales somewhat and that would "hurt" more than anything else.

On the other hand, some people are just difficult and it's best to pass by on the other side of the street than to run directly into them. Hard to say what's right to do sometimes.

I wote the guy in a nice tone - asking him to remove my photos. He responded by pleading with me to let him use the pictures until he sold his stock of seeds. I hadn't replied when i see he has started linking his auctions to my DG journal. So... I write again telling him to take the pictures off and not to be linking to my pages. His response was there are no rules about linking to other pages. I have made my journal private so his links won't work... and now I get letter telling me what a jerk I am.

I'm off to work for the night but I'll contact e-bay tomorrow. Maybe they'll enlighten him as to what copyright infringement is. He's way out of line. I hope he doesn't hunt someone elses pictures down to use.

And he is also dealing with me right now, which is a VERY uncomfortable position to be in. I will defend any members' copyrights, especially poppysue's.

dave

It's not like he's getting that much money from his sales. Sheesh!

In the messages I've received from him, he really didn't think it was a big deal to "borrow" the pictures. Once he was informed otherwise, he felt backed into a corner and lashed out. I honestly don't think he meant any harm and he probably didn't realize that photos are actually "owned". He does, now, as I helped to explain the whole thing.

At this point, I don't think this is worth pursuing, but I'm not the one who had photos used without getting my permission. I would let it drop.

Yes, I agree, he's not an especially nice person, but when I try to imagine what my Lord would do, forgiveness is the first thing that comes to mind.

Just my opinion, mind you.

PoppySue,
He is still selling the seeds, but WITHOUT your photo... HEHEHE!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2038572706#DESC

Poppysue,

it is of vital importance to know how he was "persuaded" to leave your pictures out of his page. In my opinion, it was ebay who have to be honest, otherwise they close down.

Any more news??

Dimitri

Hee hee...someone ought to write him as if a bidder and ask him if he has any pictures. I'm NOT.

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Regardless of what another person has done, I wouldn't expect any of us to stoop so low as to make fun of them.

It doesn't matter if this guy is a world class jerk, none of us has the right to belittle him or find humor in his situation.

Not one of you knows very much about his situation, do you? Do you understand WHY he used the photos in the first place? Do you know what his family life it like? Are you even aware of why he has chosen to sell things on ebay? Does he have a real job and this is just a side business or is this his only hope of keeping his family afloat?

My point is that until you walk in another person's shoes, you have no right to poke fun at them or make light of their situation. Even then, it's wrong.

(stepping off soap box now)

I believe that this is Poppysue, and only Poppysue's, decision. "To err is human, to forgive is devine." I
understand that he needs both forgiveness, and direction. From all that I have read, I do believe he will steer clear of anyone's images in the future.

"eyes"

smiln: I think folks are just trying to make light of this particular situation, not the person in question. I think it's a matter of "laugh or cry" and folks here are choosing the former.

I think that no matter what this fellow's situation is, what he did was illegal and unethical. I'm of the opinion that one should never create an excuse for wrong-doing.

I followed up with him privately. My notes to him were professional and courteous, and I haven't heard from him since he took the images down.

My guess is that he thought it was fun and games until a serious webmaster came down on him firmly but gently. Or maybe something else altogether, I really don't know. I hope he has learned a lesson about copyright law.

dave

Carla, I was just kidding for Pete's sake. I have to be able to find the humor in life or I'd go nuts. All humor could be taken as being at the expense of someone, and I don't believe I was being mean or vindictive here at all. And I'll tell ya, I'm the first to laugh at the irony of a lot of things in my own life. :)

This message was edited Friday, Jul 12th 2:32 PM

Gardenwife,
I did not use the words "mean" or "vindictive" at all. I said it wasn't right to "poke fun" at other people's situations. I understand that you meant no harm. My comments weren't just about what you said.

Dave,
He never "created an excuse for wrong-doing". He didn't know it was wrong (until now). Now he knows.

Actually, he knew it was wrong long before now. He was told several times that it was wrong, and had many opportunities to recrify the situation. It took some rather firm e-mails, regretably, to get him to listen to reason.

I meant that he didn't know it was wrong until this situation made it clear to him, not just within the last day or so.

Also, he felt that if he linked to the DG pages in Poppysue's journal that it would be giving her credit for the photos.

He was wrong, but his actions might make a little more sense when explained this way.

I hadn't intended for everyone to gang up on this poor guy - but thanks to you all for the help. I'm sure he won't mess with my photos again but I'm not so sure he won't scout out other photos. E-bay can be very nasty at times. One time I had a girl that bought seeds from me steal the photos from my auctions and relist the seeds at quadruple the price at Amazon. When I told her I was not happy about it she insisted she was wrong and would remove the photos. The next time I looked her up she had a link on her page to her own "web-business" where there was about 10 of my pictures - all posted as if it were her own garden and the fabulous poppies that she had grown. I was furious to say the least.

The point of my thread was to let everyone see ... this is not Okay to do. There have been a couple of threads questioning what copyrights entail. Anything you create on the web is owned by you. It's not okay to go to BurpeeSeeds.com and copy their photos for the DG plant database. It may seem harmless enough but as Dave said it's illegal and unethical. It's just as wrong for an e-bay seller to go to the database and copy your photos or a description you wrote to post on an auction.

If anyone here aks me to use my pictures for their journals or home pages I would no doubt be flattered and happy to let them use them. Being a former e-bay seller, I would have been glad to help this guy with pictures if he had asked me first. This morning I was feeling a bit sorry for him - I came very close sending him a couple of older pictures that I don't use for his auctions - But since he's been so rude to me, I decided against it. I noticed his latest listings he states that he's waiting on the seeds he's selling. He doesn't even have them in his possession yet. I have the feeling that's going to get him into a bit of hot water as well.

Dave - I imagine this sort of thing may happen now and then with all the great pictures in the database. What a great shopping mall it would be for someone to lift photos. I think e-bay should make it clear to sellers when they post photos but you have to hunt through the rules and regulations to find it.

I would like to learn more about the right-click preventing code some websites have in place. I know even it isn't foolproof. Like you, Poppysue, in most cases I'd be happy as a clam to let someone use one of my photos as long as the person asked me and gave me credit for my work.

Maybe Dave can make the copyright information larger, somewhat transparent and diagonal across the middle of a photo? We could still see the photo but it would make it difficult for anyone to use them without permission. I've seen photos like that, and they still let me see all the photo details in spite of the copyright.

Oh, like a watermark. That might be good, yes. Really good.

Darius, my friend, you're a genuis!!!

"eyes"

Darius, you should receive an award. That's brilliant.

Add to the awards thread?

A transparent copyright mark exists in the market, it is known as "digimark" and I am afraid (a) it is expensive, (b) you still have to find the pics where they are being misused, and be able to pursue the issue, otherwise the "other" guy uses your pics with your invisible sign on them and you can't even locate him.

Perhaps an idea would be for Dave to invent a "key" which would be standard frame for all pics, and if one tried to save the pic, he would end up with a hole or a serious discoloration on it. I mean the "pic" appears as 2 layers, one of which is kept only in DG hard disk, and cannot be copied, and the other which makes the picture. Am I talking things already passed by computer gurus??

Dimitri

Dimitri,

That approach does not work. Anyone can just take a screen capture of their screen, crop out the image part, and they are done. That's not a feasible solution.

Disabling right-click also does nothing, as you can simply drag the image onto your hard drive, or save it through other means. Mark knows all about this - he used that technique to protect his images on his website, and then tiG demonstrated how she was able to easily copy the images down.

Folks just need to realize that people are basically good, and there are extremely few cases out there that poppysue experienced. It's a rare thing when it happens, and it usually resolves just fine (as it did in this case).

We should go on with our own lives as if this didn't happen. If there's anyone who wants to stop adding pictures to our community here, then that is everyone's loss and that's a shame.

dave

Okay, I don't like it, but I want people to be comfortable with their images on DG. That's my first concern, and it's a real issue that should be addressed.

So, check out the work I did this afternoon. The thread is here: http://davesgarden.com/showthread/294831.html

dave

This lady has some great info re: copyright and the Internet. I found this site while searching for free templates to use with Blogger.com -- http://www.pointoffocus.com/Graphics/focusintro.html By the way, I *love* her site design.

** edited: just found out he is a SHE. Oops! **

This message was edited Sunday, Jul 14th 3:50 AM

Dave,
I asked that a bunch of "my pictures" be removed in a e-mail to you... it's not because I'm afraid they'll be stolen, if someone wants a picture I've taken it's ok with me (I'm actually not a very good photographer!).... I am just not sure where I originally got some of those photos I asked to be removed. I don't want them posted as "mine" if I didn't take them, I may have gotten them from a site/people that wouldn't mind but I can't be sure.... best to error on the side of caution. I should've thought it through better before I posted them. I will be replacing the ones I can with my own photos, taken by me. The "borrowed" photos are also the reason I'm unable to share my journal, I use them for identification until I can replace them with my own photos.

Smilin I just want to respond to what you said about him not knowing. While I am not making fun of the guy, I am saying that he did know that it was wrong before he posted the picture. We are taught at a very young age that you don't take other people properity, he didn't take the picture so he knew it wasn't his, it's as simple as that.

The second point, he has been on the internet for a while in order for him to be able to do some of the things he did so it's not like he hasn't seen copyright notices before. I don't think that anyone situation gives them the right to steal(and that is what it is) from another person's work and profit from it or for any other reason without asking.
I do believe in forgiveness and praying for people who are doing wrong things to others, but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. I think this is one of those times.
It's so hard to forgive someone who is stealing from you and being nasty to you when all your doing is asking them to stop taking what is yours.

And forgiveness is a matter of the heart; it does not ignore justice being served.