Roses: feeding roses?

I have 10 hybrid teas and three climbers. I have been sorta haphazard about feeding them and wondered what was best to use and how often to use it? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Lou

Feeding roses... there have been whole books on the subject. Briefly, roses are heavy feeders, the more you feed them the more they bloom.

You can find several different rose food products in any garden store that will work well, and several more that don't work quite so well. Roses are normally fed once a month with quick-working fertilizers (I usually do mine on the first Saturday to the month to keep track). There are also season-long fertilizers. Use them once in the spring, and they persist through the summer. More expensive, but may be worth it in the long run.

There is a product that is the highest rated among rosarians called Mills Magic Mix. It is a combination of chemicals and natural products that makes them bloom like crazy. Read and follow the label directions.

You do realize, that forcing your roses to bloom makes them shorter-lived. Depends what is most important to you: the blooms or the plant.

Roses also need lots of water; an inch a week at the minimum.

I personally feed mine with only organic (or at least not chemical) food. I start in the early spring when I unmulch them. I give them 1/4 cup (not more!) epsom salt, 2 tbls ironite, 1 1-lb coffee can of alfalfa meal, and 1 1-lb coffee can of compost. Lightly rake all this into the top inch of soil around the dripline. I then mulch with a 3-lb coffee can of coffee grounds (to help reduce the soil alkalinity), then 3" of compost. My plants thrive on this regimen, and I get not a super-abundance of blooms, but they bloom almost non-stop through the year.

BTW, I am a former member of the local rose society; our group was mostly only interested in HT which is not my passion. My heirloom plants can't take a lot of the chemical fertilizers: makes them defoliate and much more prone to disease.

I am glad you pointed out the effect on lifespan. I have never liked to force any plant to perform in a super way. In my climate, it's easier to get a long season, since our winter is so mild as to not even need protection for roses. And I choose my roses carefully, for fragrance and shape of bud and bloom as much as quantity. I don't want to lose them after just a few years, and then have to pull out the dead bush and plant another. My roses are like old friends, and it's nice to greet them each season as they go through their cycles in a natural way. I feed conservatively, I suppose. It is necessary to adjust for alkalinity here.

I just use well rotted horse manure twice a year and thats it, they grow really well too.

I really wish I had a supply of horse manure, or cow, either. But here in the city, unless you know a farmer personally, really expensive to buy the bagged dried stuff. I know people who swear by it!

I just love DG, I learn more here then anywhere else. a lot to be said for exerience. I mulch my roses with rabbit poop
and they seem to love it. In the fall we use horse manure mixed with straw.

Wow! You just gave me a great idea! Create a "litter box" for the wild bunnies and train them to use it! ;) I bet you have pet bunnies. I only have a pet cat and don't really want to use her dirty litter box for composting.

Getting lots of great new ideas is my favorite thing about this site too! Maybe I can talk a local farmer into manure. Have to be some that haven't promised all theirs to others.

I just got this new bloom stuff thats 10-60-10. Hows that for them?

That is the kind that will make them bloom like crazy! You can use that straight (READ THE LABEL) or mix it with something else that will bring up the nitrogen levels to about 1/2 the phosphorus level (like bloodmeal or another straight nitrogen fertilizer). That will give you nice blooms, and not rob the plant of its health in producing more flowers than the shrub can really support.

But, as I said, and Aimee also pointed out (you must have done what I did and over-fertilized yours too, Aimee! -- I have always seemed to learn the hard way!) it depends if you are more interested in growing them for the flowers or the plant. A lot of people plant roses in a cutting garden and just replace them every 3-4 years. They have cut-rose bouquets continuously for about 7 months. The ones I know who do that are skilled rosarians who do their own grafting and rooting; they don't have to "buy" new plants all the time. They tend to grow 500-800 roses bushes!

This might sound silly. but
They havent started to bloom yet. I just have buds. If I use this 10-60-10....will it help now. Or am I too late/ Or will it make more buds.

Not silly! There is no "stupid question" just "unasked" questions.

If you begin fertilizing after the initial bud set, they will grow bigger before opening (bigger up to a point). You will also get new buds sooner than if you don't fertilize, and more of them. The more you fertilize, the sooner the plant makes new flowers. That is what makes them "bloom to death".

Just make sure you READ THE LABEL and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS EXACTLY or you might overfeed and kill the roots! It happens a lot more than people admit. If the directions say "2 tablespoons", then 1 cup is not better. If the directions say "1/2 cup" then get yourself a new set of measuring spoons/cups and use them just for outdoors. Don't guess.

If you begin fertilizing as soon as the roses are uncovered in the spring (or if you don't mulch, then before the weather warms up enough to start new growth) the initial bud set will have many more than otherwise. But you can start fertilizing whenever you want: early or mid season.

One more thing: make sure you deadhead (cut off the dead flower and several leaflets below the flower) as soon as the petals have fallen or turned to mush. That stimulates the plant to start new growth. Otherwise it will take a long breath and build up reserves before it begins new growth. Also, energy is used developing seeds (if possible) rather than making new flowers.

For this reason, stop deadheading at least a month before the first expected freeze in your area. New rose growth almost always dies in the winter.

OH!!!!! I will refer to this often. I used miralce grow once already 2 weeks ago. Will use this today . Thanks so much for your knowledge and time. much appreciated. you said it better than books!

Yep, I was about to say good old fashioned horse manure as I read down the posts, then Sheila and others beat me to it...lol!! And talking of poo, I have access to fresh muck! My question is, if I spread it on my newly started lasagna bed and cover it with straw and other material, will it still smell? I have to think of the neighbours!! I think I will post this somewhere else too.

Louisa, I have never used "poo"! But everyone says that if it is completely covered, there will be no odor problems! But as I say, I am not an expert on this.

Thanks for all the compliments! Most of my knowledge comes first from reading lots of books (especially Rayford Reddell on roses) and from belonging to the Rose Society. All who are really into roses should join (at least for a year) and go to the meetings. They have some really great speakers. Often the best speakers are other Rose members who have been doing it for 20-50 years! That is where I got all my "hands-on" knowledge. Even if there is no local chapter by you, anyone can join the American (ARS) or their State Rose Society.

Brian, if you are following this, Paul also, notice I give you both full credit! (my mentors)

I joined the Rose Society just last month in an attempt to learn more. I just started a rose garden this past year and had a very hard time deciding which ones to buy, love so many of them.
I found the greatest source for getting worm castings, worms, and rabbit poop this past week.A woman that lives in a nearby town raises rabbits and has a worm business in conjuction with it. Fabulous find and she's such a kick, we had a great time at her house Tuesday ,and bought a whole bunch of all that stuff.My veggies are loving it too.
Thanks for all your info Lupinelover

Roses are hard to resist dg!! Like lupinelover I too started with armfuls of books. It does pay to be selective and try and find those roses that are disease resistant or purported to be!! I would imagine that your California climate is perfect for roses and I'm happy that this genus found another fan as it seems this beautiful plant has little following here on DG!! Enjoy them!! :-)

dg, you are so fortunate, not only finding a great source of compost but a new friend! I am sure you are making the best of both of them!

I got to unload/haul/spread about 3/4 ton WET compost yesterday. Am taking it easier today. Ever smell wet compost? Especially fresh wet compost? Wow!

And, yes, it is wonderful to have a new friend: you, DG. Hope to hear more from you often. Aren't ARS wonderful people? Just wish we had enough heirloom and shrub lovers here to form our own sub-group.

I have just come back from England, after three weeks..in 21 days we have had 5 or 6 good warm days of sunshine and the rest cloudiness or rain..prior to leaving I gave my roses some food...(the wonderful Alfalfa Tea mixture... one gallon each***depending on the size of the shrub******) been home two days now, walked about in the garden and the leaves on Westerland, etc and the amount of buds.......yikes!!!!!! huge!!!!!! and the basal growth is phenomenal!) this time I added more of the liquid kelp to the tea******something I haven't done before!!!!!!!!Elaine

Welcome back Elaine!! Sorry about the weather back home. I think England as well as the U.S. has had a rather unsettling Spring!! My mum told me there were not many sunny days for her to enjoy and she loves this time of the year!! I hope it didn't spoil your vacation!! I can imagine that you're glad to be home again and by the sound of it your roses behaved themselves and are ready to herald your return!! :-)

I am going to have to print all this information and start a folder, all of you are so knowledgeable.
What do you do when beatles attack your roses? This week I've had little pure black beatles getting after my roses and marigolds. They're horrible little things, I have just been picking them off and "squishing" them. I suppose I'll have to spray something, but I really hesitate to use anything too toxic, it scares me. I try to keep anything like that away from my husband --- Maybe some of you know of a safer spray.
Elaine, your trip sounds wonderful, even if the weather was bad. My brother goes to England often, took my Mom once and she loved it so. They both have studied English history for years and for Mom to actually be there was a real treat.
Jacquie

dguimo, for the above question, see the thread in this forum (rose) called "Japanese Beetle Prevention Tips" that I started, and read a whole lot of ideas! Probably would also work on whatever beetles are attacking yours (they don't sound like these voracious monsters though).

Kathy

Ok - here's the next question for this thread and everyone's folder of info... I have arbors with Don Juan red and Queen Elizabeth pick climbers and floribundas respectively. I also have several roses of various colors that I do not know the type of growth habit. My problem is this - of a dozen or so roses - at least half of them are not putting out leaves on the lower portion of the canes. I have trimmed the old canes, given them commercial rose food, bone meal and new mulch. They are blooming at the usual rate - butI do not see significant growth or new leaves coming in from the base of the plant. The soil in my area is red clay. I have ameneded this at planting and at the start of the seasons with the above treatment and well composted cow manure. My question is - how do I bring these folks back to health? What are they lacking for leaf production. I have read in the above conversation - to give epsom salts once a year. I have not done this, nor have I applied coffee grains. Any and all suggestions would be most appreciated.

Thanks

swoznick

Swoznick, if you don't have leaves on the bottoms of your canes, rejoice because then you don't have to remove them! Really! That is the strong recommendation to help prevent certain disease and pest problems. Mites (red spider mites) jump from the soil onto the bottom leaves. Removing these prevents them from getting onto your plants.

Black-spot spores are most often present on the soil, so when the soil is splashed, the spores cannot reach the higher leaves and thus infect the plant.

Rosarians usually recommend to people that after the bush has mostly leafed out, remove the leaves from the bottom 12" of the canes.

If you want more leaves on your plants (necessary for good food production, and thus more and better roses), applying nitrogen increases foliage. You can get either "complete" fertilizer that has all of the major nutrients, or you can get just a nitrogen supplement like blood meal. Alfalfa (what I recommended above) is almost pure nitrogen, also. As it is broken down in the soil (only happens at soil temps above 60), the nitrogen is released to the plant.

You can also plant legumes around the bushes. Some kinds of legumes only produce enough nitrogen for their own use; other an abundance that other plants can get their share of. I think (not positive) that the clover group produces the most. Not sure if you want to grow clover as a living mulch around your roses, though; some people do. I grow alfalfa as a living mulch around a couple of my roses, and they seem to thrive. I also have heavy clay (not red, though; gray) and the alfalfa roots penetrate it easily to help break it up.

BTW, pruning climbing roses is generally only done occasionally. Eliminate any dead or diseased wood after new growth starts in the spring, remove any canes that are very woody (these don't bloom well), and any canes that are too much for the overall size of the plant. Otherwise, you are much better off leaving the shears along for your climbers, and for Queen Elizabeth, also. Big roses, if cut too small, will spend most of their time re-growing to their desired height and spread, with less of their energy spent on producing buds. If they don't have enough room to grow to the size they want, consider moving them in the fall/winter.

Thanks for the info lupinelover. And I thought I was doing something wrong! I would like to see more foliage up at the top of the plant tho. Just so it can process (photosynethsize). I'm going to try the alfalfa and bloodmeal as I have both for another side dressing for the veggies. Is there a particular ratio of alfalfa to blood meal or just in general how much to apply? I only pruned once and yes only took away deadwood or canes that would be a detriment. The overall height and shape was kept. I have both of these in pairs alongside two big arbors that DH built for me last year. I noticed yesterday to that a bit of blackspot is working - so i'll have to treat for that as well. I've just put in garlic chives and garlic around the bushes to ward off vampires and japanese beetles. The area is in development into a garden at present - so I could incorporate a cover crop for companion purposes. How tall does the live alfalfa get?

swoznick

You can mow the alfalfa to keep it at a desired height of anything from 1" to 2' :) You can either take away the clippings for other roses or leave them to rot and enrich the soil where they lay. You can let them flower (absolutely beautiful when they flower: I wish I had a camera/scanner to show the picture of what the plant looks like in full bloom!

One alfalfa plant puts up multiple stems, and each stem can grow to about 8' in length. They are fairly lithe stems, so when they get too bushy they collapse (like peonies) all over their neighbors or the bare soil or whatever.

If you use bloodmeal/alfalfa singly or in combination, follow package directions for bloodmeal: most bags have listings for amount. I use a 1-lb coffee can full of alfalfa meal every spring, stirring it into the soil. Then once a month I put fresh alfalfa hay as a mulch around each plant about 2" in depth. It quickly decomposes. You don't need to adjust amount of bloodmeal when adding alfalfa, as an organic source of nitrogen it stays inert in the soil until decomposed by soil bacteria need it (i.e. the other nitrogen is not plentiful). Another good reason to use organic fertilizer: don't have to worry about "burning" roots.

If you use meal, make sure you either cover it with another mulch or cultivate shallowly to mix into the soil -- it makes a waterproof barrier when it gets wet and then dries. And it stinks that way too :(~

Ok - so that sounds like the deal. I'll be off to Southern States this weekend for Alfalfa seeds. I needed something to green up the area anyway. I have wild clover and it grows into everything. I'm constantly pulling it out of the flower beds. But the area that I'm developing into the rose area is a place where only clumps of grass will grow and weeds like it best. I can run the tiller thru there and put down alfalfa and have a pretty border while I'm working the area into a design. And is sounds like it mows well too. Cool beans! Landscape dilema resolved - not to mention the roses! I'll let you know how it goes!

swoznick

lupinelover...thanks for the tips..
Where do you find that Mills Magic Mix? I would like to try it. I also now have two rabbits who I plan to use for fertilizing my plants. I think my plants will like it. I heard you can put fresh rabbit poop out and it wont burn the plant like other manures will.

Kelly, not sure where in your area you could buy Mills Magic Mix, but it is sold mail-order by several rose companies in bags of #3-#40 lbs each, so shipping might be high. The company (Beaty Fertilizer Company) does have its own web site: www.millsmix.com so you could probably order it direct from them if you can't find it locally. Their address is PO Box 2878, Cleveland, TN 37320-2878. DG does have it in their Garden Watchdog site :)

Don't you just love the posts about the best poop! I use composted cow manure, (the best is Black Kow), bone meal and epsom salts in the spring and refresh the mulch. Then about once a month I use a rose food with systemic pesticide and fungicide. These seems to keep down all the bugs and diseases. I also deadhead once a week.