Weeds and Plant Diseases

Dave and go_vols, just the thing you want to hear more about from us - more work on your end. However, I was out working in the garden and noticed that one of my dogwoods has a brown splotch on nearly all the leaves and some of them are turning yellow. I was thinking maybe this was the dreaded anthracnose that dogwoods in the northeast were suffering from, but I have no way of knowing and no place that I can easily go to to find out the answer. Additionally, there are a number of "weeds" in my yard/garden that I haven't the faintest idea what their names are nor do I know the best way to get rid of them.

That said, I think it would be a tremendous addition to the "whatever" database to include pictures of weeds/diseases/bugs and methodologies for getting rid of the them both organically and nuke em to death. I know I didn't mention bugs previously, but this would also be incredibly helpful to gardeners everywhere. Basically, a database to help identify problems in the garden and what to do with them. I think this would be a great attraction for folks to come to DG. Or maybe I'm just ....ing ing the wind with this idea. Anyways, a suggestion for improving the website over the competition.

I second the notion! When I have a problem, I turn to my old books, and many of them recommend chemicals we now know are dangerous, and that haven't even been available for years. To be able to go to a database I knew had current information about these problems would be frosting on the cake.

I'd love to see something on bugs and damage done (pictures to help identify) and treatments. Basically the same thing that Copperbaron mentioned above.

I have more weed varieties than I do vegies and flowers and can't tell you the name of 1% of them. I know they just don't die like the vegies and flowers do.........I just have to say right now that this whole site just keeps getting better and better. Thanks to all who work on it for the rest of us.

Shirley

I disagree with a weed DB, one mans weed is another mans flower/vegetable even stinging nettles and plantains (both in the pdb already).

A pest db is a good idea although our pests will be different to yours, trouble is it might be a tad difficult to set up unless we have a few entomologists here.

I'm smiling as I write this, because a database of pests and diseases would not necessarily create more work for me. ANYONE can contact Dave and work with him to set it up. (The only reason I've become so involved in the Plants Database is because about a year and a half ago, I emailed Dave with some suggestions for improving the version in place at that time. So with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I'd caution you to be careful what you ask for, LOL!)

Seriously - it's a great idea. In fact, I suspect Dave has some ideas for approaching it already. Assuming Dave isn't covered up with to-do's, if someone wants to step up and help him get it set up, tested and launched, that would be GREAT!

Regarding weeds, I have to agree with Baa. The designation "weed" is extremely subjective; we identify potentially invasive plants as such in the PDB. But there is no botanical distinction for plants that you or I may consider weeds.

For example, I learned yesterday that Spiraea japonica is considered a serious invasive threat in certain parts of the U.S. - and yet this is a respectable shrub sold by every nursery and gardening center I can think of, and routinely recommended by landscape "experts".

Looking forward to seeing that Pests and Diseases database!

I'd like to also agree with Baa here. Weeds are way to subjective, not only from a geographical standpoint but from a personal one, too. Take Trish and me. I grow Mullein and Pokeweed in my landscaping in front of my house, and she groans at my choosing to incorporate "weeds" in my beds.

She would want Mullein in the weed database, but I would disapprove of its addition.

To solve this, we did add checkboxes for "Invasive plants" (which usually means that it can become a weed to at least one person somewhere in the world). We also wanted to add a checkbox for "Native Plants", but we realized that all plants are basically native somewhere, and the issue was dropped. I'd personally love a weeds database, but that database would only be valid from a very focused perspective, and I don't think that'd be very useful.

On to the Pests and Diseases... Well, I'll start a new reply so we can transition neatly.

How would a Pests and Diseases Database (PDD) work? How similar would it be to the Plants database, and how integrated would it be with our current system?

Do you see it as a basic extension to the PDB, using the same code and the same site, only with new categories or something, or do you see it as an entire new application setup specifically for this? I'm sort-of thinking the latter makes the most sense, but I'd like to hear your (everyone on this thread) thoughts on this.

Also - what about classifications? For diseases, how do we cross-reference diseases to plants? Do we include latin names for the pests and diseases, or just the common name?

Well, there's a lot to think about. I think the PDD could be as simple or as complex as we wanted it to be.

dave

PDD is a good idea. I recently had what I later figured out were spider mites on my mint plants. Took about a whole day to figure out what they were. I had already sprayed the plants with Safer's soap, b/c it seems to cure all that ails my plants. Still, it would be nice to have a quick, easy way to find plant pests, and more modern techniques to erradicate them.

-Jennifer

Hmmmmm I don't want to come over as someone who always insists on classical languages but a pest and diseases database, in my view, would have to have the 'latin' names too because there the common name differences are just as complex as those for plants. Pictures (unless we all get a fantastic camera) will be sparse too.

I've just been looking through my Cereal Disease Guide for ideas.

Their lay out is:

Main season (or place on plant) of attack
Common name
'Latin' name
Picture
Main Host
Secondary Hosts
Symptoms
Development
Favourable factors (that predispose attack)
Effects
Control

They also include a section for growth stage and pesticide groups. Another forseeable problem is pesticide (inorganic or organic) product names.

My main query now is do we have the broad knowledge base to make this kind of a database worthwhile or indeed a reasonable size database? Sorry guys no offense to anyone intended after all we are all learning here.

The last paragraph you wrote, Baa, is quite important. The Plants Database is a great success because we have a billion gardeners here who have digital cameras and information in their mind. Collectively, we are the most experienced gardener in the world. :)

Can the same be said of Pests and Diseases? Personally, I wouldn't have much to contribute because I just don't have a lot of knowledge in this area, and I likely won't ever become as interested in it as I am of plants. Do we have enough members to make this worthwhile?

BTW - Thanks for the details, Baa - that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

dave

I have one volume in my set of garden encyclopedias that is pest and diseases. The set is pretty old, but it gives lots of valuable information. I paged through it and it looks like quite a few of the entries in it also include the latin name. I would offer to help with setting this all up, but we are going to be swamped this summer building the house. If this goes through, I would be happy to send this volume to someone to get the information from, and they can send it back to me when they are done. I think this is the same set Aimee has that she got lots of the terms from for gardenology.

I think the biggest problem would be getting pictures for the PDD. The information would be easier to get than the pictures unless someone actually has that certain pest or disease.

Just my two cents. If someone wants to borrow this book I have just give a hollar.

My pleasure Dave. I knew I had a reason to keep hold of that book ;)

Joan the great thing about the plants database is that the majority of the contributions aren't from a book or at least there is an element of recent personal experience with each and every plant. One thing all growers hope for is no disease or at least short lived experience of the disease, plants we hope to keep for a long time and in the main we do manage that. Information changes over time, even in the fungal disease world and pesticides/other control also change very quickly.

I have a number of information sources about pests and diseases from my Ag College days but the relevancy of the information is in question as it was 8 years ago since the last pages were written.

I can promise that the pesticide control used in UK Ag 8 years ago is different today with various rules and regs that have come into place as well as product changes, new introductions and disease resitance.

It sounds like our best bet may be to limit such a database to the name/description/photo of the pest/disease, the plant(s) affected, and the symptoms that manifest themselves.

And possibly list the organic and/or preventative measures, since they're not as likely to change as the chemicals.

The only information I was suggesting getting from this book was a description of the pest or disease and the latin names. I realize that it would be best to have personal experience before offering much more than that. It was just a thought, and I had the book so thought I'd offer it's use if it would be a help.

Joan, it's a good suggestion, and not a bad place to start. I think several of us now have a set of books like Aimee's (thanks to her sharing her source of botanical names a few months ago!), so perhaps you won't have to ship yours cross-country :)

I hope someone will step up and take the lead on this project. Creating a list of disease and pest names and descriptions, symptoms, etc. would probably be a good place to start, and working with Dave, it could be uploaded into a database.

What I've noticed with the Plants Database is that once a plant is listed, others will come along with information, growing tips, and photos. But if it isn't in there at all, the same gardeners might not think to add it (or feel comfortable adding it.)

Joan

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like your suggestion was unfeisible! That wasn't my intention.

A couple of thoughts. I see the database as laying the groundwork for future additions. There might not initially be a lot of information available, but who knows what there might be 10 years from now if DG continues to grow at its current rate. I have a few sources of pests/diseases (mainly from chemical companies and sellers of chemicals like Gardens Alive) that have some basic information on pests/diseases, but the information is few and far between. I suspect that there is a great deal of additional information on the web about individual pests/diseases that has never been brought together in a central location, so it probably would be slow going at first, but who knows what it might grow into as these sources were gradually incorporated. I assume this is how the Garden Watchdog started out - little information at first but continuously adding new information. Also, the great thing about an interactive database such as those at DG's is that, as recommended treatments/preventions change, they can readily be updated in the database, whereas books, as noted by several posters, become outdated.

Regarding the weeds aspect, I agree that one persons weed is another persons treasure. But the database would be a contribution by folks who consider a plant a weed at some time and/or place. The user of the database would have the option of deciding if they considered a particular plant a weed or a treasure. The reason I suggested this is because most of the plants I find myself pulling out of my beds I don't have the faintest clue as to what they are nor do I know of a place to go and find out what they are. I have bought several native flowers/shrubs books, but they aren't that helpful. Besides, there are a few plants out there that I think only someone from another planet could love - nutgrass comes immediately to mind.

In my Southern Living Pest and Disease book, it had under the specific plant listed all the pests and diseases that can attack that plant. Could we add something like this to the PDB? It then has a "general" section with insects like aphids and spider mites that attack a wide range of plants.

This is a good idea, especially if we kept it to a basic checklist where a member could go through the process of elimination with the common pests/diseases usually associated to plants and vegetables in their area.
On the other hand, entomotogy can be difficult for anyone who is not an entomologist. In my area, we have lacewings that are beneficial and others that are not. Can I tell the difference - no, not at this time. Out of all the different types of insects we see in our gardens only 1% are detrimental - the others are benign or advantageous. I learned this at the Southeastern MG Conference and I will admit that the 1% can do alot of damage to our treasured plants.
If this does come to fruition and organic methods are offered, please mention the downsides too. The first thing that comes to my mind are the Japanese Beetle traps. Yes, they trap the beetles; but in my opinion the trap also attracts more to your yard than you would have had otherwise.
Although I haven't used any pesticides, I believe they should also be listed as a last resort only. If a member has a rare or treasured plant it's more than likely they will go that route anyway.
Another thing to consider is that mother nature can trick us to believe that we have a disease in our crops when we don't. A farmer called his extension agent concerned about a disease. It had killed all of his plants in a large circular area. It was discovered that lightning had struck his field instead.
Should anyone decide to accept this major challenge, I am acquainted with an entomologist and I can ask if he will help us with the tough questions. Time for me to get off my soap box!

I see no one is volunteering for this herculean task ;)

I like Cala's idea (here's hoping I read it right) of having a section in the PDB to say 'Susceptable to aphids, red spider mite etc' but I fear the list would be incredibly long unless only the main pests and diseases were listed. Also (dog in a manger Baa again) a lot of the diseases like Botrytis, grey moulds and different rusts are so very similar to each other and it is difficult to say what they are actually suffering from except to say its mouldy and grey or brown. You do need to have a great deal of knowledge or be a qualified horticulturalist to be able to distinguish the diseases. (Carol, you can get organic pesticides too)

I will offer to help out but bear in mind I'm in the UK and therefore not exactly qualified to say what plants in the US can suffer from.

Baa, I called it organic methods so it would be all-inclusive. I guess I should have used more examples when I posted. Sorry you misunderstood.

I beg my pardon Carol.

I know there are a lot of people who like to use organic methods but there are others who do use chemical controls, I feel that both options should be given.

I don't have enough time to head up something like this, but as I'm out in the garden taking pics of the plants I've already started taking pics of the pests and diseases in preparation for this. I think it's a great idea and I'll help as much as I can!

I would love to see this. Unfortunately I can't offer to take on the task (unless you all want to wait until November for me to start). I was a programmer/application developer back in the dark ages of DOS (and pre-DOS :)

Anyway, I think this is on the right track. I have many reference books on disease/pest ID, but often the photos are not helpful. Try to tell from an old 3x3" photo the difference between Verticulum wilt and Fusarium wilt on peppers!

The format that may be most useful for the disease/pest ID would be to have a way to list the visible damage to the specific kind of plant. That way us un-Latin people can find what we need without knowing what the name of it is! And a DB listing the different diseases/pests plants are heir to. Then, as you have done with the plant DB there would be an area under it with room for any member to post their remedies, effectiveness, etc. Seasons for affliction would also be helpful (early spring, mid-summer, season-long, etc.)

I agree with you Dave about the mullein. To me it is a wonderful herb/wildflower. To my mother it is an eyesore and should be eradicated off the face of the earth. However, it would be very helpful to be able to search with a set of criteria under "weeds" (i.e. size of plant, leaf type, etc.) to be able to tell what we see outside. It is disconcerting to leave new "volunteers" in your garden to be asked by a knowledgeable gardener "why do you have all that pigweed?" Also an area that might be included are garden plants that abundantly seed themselves around, especially in certain parts of the country/world. As several have pointed out, "invasiveness" is limited to certain growing conditions.

I hope someone else volunteers for this. I would love to have it up and running this summer, not next if I volunteer :[