Propagation techniques - need input :)

Here's the list of propagation techniques I've been working on, based on feedback and suggestions from several of you (a big thanks to all who helped me get this far!)

With a soon-to-be-released upgrade to the Plants Database, you'll be able to check all the techniques that apply to each of your entries in the PDB.

You'll also be able to search for plants by a particular propagation method. And you'll be able to click on a link to see a full description of each technique (in case you need more information :)


By dividing the rootball
By dividing rhizomes, tubers, corms or bulbs
By dividing the bulb's scales
From leaf cuttings
From stem cuttings
From softwood cuttings
From semi-hardwood cuttings
From hardwood cuttings
From root cuttings, runners or suckers
From seed; direct sow outdoors in spring when danger of frost is past
From seed; direct sow outdoors in fall
From seed; start outdoors mid-winter in containers
From seed; start indoors before last frost
From seed; germinate in a damp paper towel
From seed; germinate in gelatin or other medium
By grafting
By budding
By simple layering
By air layering
By tip layering
By serpentine layering

Here's what Dave and I need from everyone: Please look over this list and provide feedback by Saturday, 4/27.

Did we miss a method or particular technique? If so, please post back here, or email me directly - it's important that we get this finalized before we launch the new version of the PDB. And the sooner we get a final list to Dave, the sooner he can have the new version of the PDB up and running (and from what I've seen so far, the changes are the "knock-your-socks-off" variety!)

What about heel cuttings? :)

Badseed, could we include that with the description of hardwood cuttings? Or is it different enough to warrant its own entry? (I'm still very much a newbie at many of these techniques, which is why I poste this here for all to review and weigh in with your opinions...)

What about "Herbaceous" and "Greenwood" cuttings?

I can't believe it! I was just wishing that DG had a database for propagation of plants. I came back to work after lunch and opened up the forum and Whalla!!!! there is the answer to my wish! Thank you, thank you!!
Cecelia

Brugie, please tell me more. This is exactly the type of dialogue we need to have, so that we come up with terms that are helpful to everyone.

I would have guessed that herbaceous cuttings would be stem cuttings, but maybe not? And greenwood = softwood? No?

(Celia, in case you didn't know it, Dave is a mindreader AND webmaster *grin* :~)

Brugie: I agree that we need:

"Cuttings: Herbaceous cuttings"

However, I go not know what Greenwood cuttings are. How do they differ from softwood cuttings?

dave

Herbaceous Cuttings: Tender herbaceous plants, such as the begonia are easy to root from cuttings because their tissues never become completely hard. Cuttings can be taken at any time of the year, but roots will form fastest from young material. Most cuttings are made from sections of stems. Coleus would fit into the category as well.

Greenwood Cuttings: Greenwood cuttings are cuttings taken from a woody plant a bit later in the season than the softwood cuttings. Shrubs such as smokebush, tender salvias, and butterfly bush are examples of woody plants that can be propagated this way.

Greenwood stage of a woody plant will be evident in the appearance of the stems. Stem tips will be soft, but the spring color of the leaves will have given way to the permanent leaf color. The lower part of the stem that developed in spring will have taken on a color closer to the previous year's growth or bark look. This type of cutting requires rooting hormone as they are a more mature cutting. These cuttings may not be ready for potting until autumn or later.

Softwood Cuttings: Softwood is available when growth of the fresh new stems has slowed. Succulent new tissues are bright in color--the chartreuse of spring. The right moment to take softwood cuttings is when the leaves are turgid, but not hard or leathery. Touch some of the stems. The tips should feel very soft and farther down the stems should be pliable, but the tissue should not yield to a squeeze. At the lowest part of the softwood, where it sprouted from a bud, the growth should be firm and just starting to darken in color. Make the cut just above this point where the new growth began.

This information is from Gardening How-To magazine.

Hope this helps.

Some seeds have a double dormancy period... meaning they have to go through several warm-cold cycles in order to germinate. That may fall under sowing in fall - and wait a couple years for germination :)

Sue, that's a good point; when we settle on the specific list of methods, we'll all have the ability to add comments and suggestions within each method's respective definition (like we do within Gardenology now.)

Regarding softwood vs. greenwood - does anyone have any comments or suggestions? I want to try to keep the list of methods as compact as possible, but make sure we include all methods that are truly distinct from one another. (For example, there are at least a half-dozen types of grafting techniques, but since most plants are not propagated by grafting, I'm only going to list one general "grafting" method, with the various techniques spelled out in the definition.)

Several sources I find on the web use greenwood and softwood interchangeably. (Some use semi-ripe and greenwood interchangeably, too!)

If the consensus is that greenwood is distinct from softwood, we'll add it to the list; if most people think they're one and the same, I'll change the softwood listing to include the word "greenwood".

I don't have much to say about greenwood or softwood ~ I always thought they were the same, too. But I did have something to add about stratification. I think this would fall under the "For seed: direct sow outdoors in fall" as it's similar, but different. Maybe change that one to "For seed: direct sow outdoors in fall or stratify indoors"?

Wingnut, how about we add another seed method for
stratification? It is a pretty important aspect to many seed germination methods. Here's my recommendation:

"From seed; stratify if sowing indoors"

An important side note: You'll be able to check boxes for both fall sowing AND stratification, if either method works. More specifically, you'll be able to check ALL methods that work, so we'll probably have many entries with a propagation section that looks something like this:

By dividing the rootball
From stem cuttings
From seed; direct sow outdoors in fall
From seed; stratify if sowing indoors
By simple layering

Each of these will have a link to a full description of each method.

Any other thoughts on the greenwood/softwood issue?

Sorry, I was out for awhile. Heel cuttings are side shoots that contain a small woody piece of the main branch. They are actually not cut from the plant, but torn off. It is important with Conifers, some evergreens, Daboecia, Erica, etc.

chitting.

this is where a bulb is cut into as many sections as possible like cutting a round cake.

Mark

micropropagation -

wounding - the outer layer of cells are removed to expose the cambium layer before inserting in compost

callusing - when the cut end Epiphyllum leaf is allowed to dry before inserting into compost.

stooling - a plant is partially buried with compost/soil to encourage roots to form along the stems

twin scaling - 2 scales are needed

scoring - the base plate in cut but not the scales

a heel cutting is different enough to have it's own entry

Okay, so hardwood WITH heel cutting should have its own entry.

By micropropagation, I'm guessing you're referring to tissue culture? I agree it's a valid, distinct and separate propagation method ... but do you think it's feasible for the average gardener looking for ways to increase a plant in his garden? (It's my understanding that TC is still the domain of large greenhouses with the specialized equipment and sterile conditions required. And will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.)

As for wounding, callusing and stooling - could they/should they be combined under a general method, with a full explanation given for each technique in the description?

Ditto for double scaling and scoring - could they be under the general method of dividing the bulb's scales, and explained within the entry?

Please understand I'm all for having more entries for propagation methods that are unique and need to be listed out separately. But I have an equally important and competing goal of keeping the list "short and sweet."

Think of this list like it's the index to a book on plant propagation - how many chapter headings should there be? Which techniques can be logically grouped together within a "chapter heading" (so to speak)?

And does anyone have another opinion/insight on greenwood vs. softwood?

Thanks again for all the input - please keep it coming :)

OOPS! I was going too fast and didn't see Air layering was already there.

This message was edited Wednesday, Apr 24th 10:44 PM

Sounds good! One more ~ how about scarifying? I hate to add yet another to the list as I know it's better short and sweet, but some seeds just won't make it without scarifying.

Wingnut, I think I can add "Scarify seed before sowing", and it can be checked along with whichever other seed starting methods are selected.

So in my hypothetical entry above, it might now look like this:

By dividing the rootball
From stem cuttings
From seed; direct sow outdoors in fall
Scarify seed before sowing
By simple layering

Mark, sorry - I missed your first entry. Is chitting covered by the method I listed as: "By dividing rhizomes, tubers, corms or bulbs"?

(We should probably all take a peek at the terms already in Gardenology - I often forget that most of these are already covered in there, and we'll be incorporating that information into the definitions for the propagation methods.)

Sounds good, Terri! I've checked my two suggestions against the Gardenology and they're there (if that helps you any...).

hi there Go Vols

chitting/chipping isnt what I would call division of bulbs. division is where a bulb has bulbils around it base.

I agree that the micropropagation isnt for the regular gardener.

wounding, callusing and stoolong are all different methods.

are you gonna have for example a heading that says bulbs (including tubers etc) and then list all the mewthods. in that case I would put in all I suggested. if not I would put them in under seperate headings.

greenwood=softwood.

Mark

I only had time to skim this conversation. On the matter of the different types of hardwood cuttings, I suggest reviewing a good propagation book (Ken Druse's Making More Plants is beautifully written, AHS propagation book is very good too) to make sure that you've got all the different types covered.

With so much propagation, the devil is in the details. I hope the database can handle the subtleties. It's often not enough just to know "softwood cuttings," but the exact timing that maximizes the chances of success. Also helpful would be the relative ease of each method. Some are ridiculously easy. Others are next to impossible. (Not that we all won't try, anyway. Most of us love a good challenge.)

Should we mention , at least in-vitro seeds germination?
Orchids propagation , that is by seeds germination or merystem , are usually done by in-vitro cultivation techniques....because we have an orchid forum I feel we should add something about it.

cristina

Thanks again to all who so quickly responded. Here's the list I ended up with:

By dividing the rootball
By dividing rhizomes, tubers, corms or bulbs
By dividing the bulb's scales
By scoring the base of the bulb to promote new bulblets
From leaf cuttings
From herbaceous stem cuttings
From woody stem cuttings
From softwood cuttings
From semi-hardwood cuttings
From hardwood cuttings
From hardwood heel cuttings
Allow cut surface to callous over before planting
From seed; direct sow outdoors in fall
From seed; start outdoors mid-winter in covered containers, coldframe or unheated greenhouse
From seed; stratify if sowing indoors
From seed; sow indoors before last frost
From seed; germinate in a damp paper towel
From seed; germinate in vitro in gelatin, agar or other medium
Scarify seed before sowing
By grafting
By budding
By simple layering
By air layering
By tip layering
By serpentine layering
By stooling or mound layering

I think this takes into consideration all the recommendations that were made; if you see anything else that should be re-worded, modified, and/or added, please "speak now or (almost) forever hold yer peace!" Seriously, please speak up quick, as we're getting ready to launch the next version of the Plants Database and I'd like to make sure these are firmly in place before we do :)

I would like to add my input if you don't mind... Well, I think I will wait for a better time...

Cheers!

In looking for ways to "insure" my being successful at cuttings of several cycad plants, I found this forum.
The last post was April 29. When are we going to see this new forum. Even if it's not complete, you need to get as much information you have ready out to us, as the growing season will soon be over. Many of you don't need this information, but us novice types do.
Please...please get it on line.
Thanks!
Art

The forum was created several years ago. here it is:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/propagation/

dave