Plant Database Errors

We all know the huge amount of work Go_vols has put into the database here at DG and I’m sure everyone appreciates it as much as I do. Recently she has requested that we try clean up our entries and add missing information, descriptions and any pictures we might be willing to contribute. To give her a helping hand, I thought a thread to list any errors we notice would help. She can’t do it all alone!

I have some limited editing features but I have to admit … I haven’t been much help. Some of the entries only have the plant name and very little information – like height, spacing, bloom time, hardiness, ect. Vols (and I) can add these in if we know what entries need them. Some entries are duplicated – the same plant might be listed under herbs but another member added it to the ground cover category. Please point out any duplicate entries here. I’ve noticed a couple of pictures that are not listed under the right plant – if you see any misidentified photos please list them here. Anything you think might be incorrect or just need a little editing will be a big help.

Also adding a link to the entry you’re referring to will save a lot of time so the corrections can be made directly from this thread, rather than searching for the plant entry in question. The database has come a loooong way since Dave first created it – it truly is amazing and I think it’s the best you’ll find on the Internet. Just a little effort from all of us will take a lot of weight off Terry’s shoulders.

Oh Yes – one more thing. Vols had made a post earlier about copyrighted information. Copying any text and or photos from other web pages, books, seed packs, catalogs or magazines is a big NO NO. You must have permission from the author or owner to copy and post information and/or photos that have been created by someone else. It is one thing to gather info from a source – but please save Dave the headache and don’t copy material that you don’t have permission to use.

Thanks, Sue! I can't add much to what you've said (except maybe a big AMEN!) We are adding some new features to the database, and it's essential that we have correct spelling and capitalization, as well as complete entries.

Here are a few tips to help you analyze your own entries, or others:

Family names all end in "ceae" now. If you see one in the database that ends in something else, chances are good it's outdated and has been replaced. A search on the 'net (using the old name or the genus and species) will likely turn up the new family name.

Genus names (and family names) are always capitalized as proper nouns. (example: Asteraceae (family) and Aster (genus)

Species names are always lower-case (example: asteroides)

Cultivar or variety names belong in a separate text box within an entry, not as part of its genus or species name.

Common names MUST be included in an entry (even if it's the botanical name) - otherwise, a reader has to go through a lot of "hoops" to access your entry.

Any entries you see that don't meet this critera, let us know. (Or if it's your own entry, please go ahead and edit it yourself, which is a huge timesaver :)

I hate to admit this, but how do I hyperlink something? I'm a little new to this web thing...WZ

WZ, hyperlinking is pretty easy, if you have two browser windows open at the same time (and that's as easy as holding down the Ctrl key and press "N" - for new, I guess.)

When you find a page you want to link to, go to the white box that has the URL address (starts with http://) Click once on that address, and it should be highlighted.

Hold down that handy-dandy Ctrl key, and press "C" (for cut)

Now go to the thread you want to add the hyperlink to. Type as you normally would to post something. When you're ready to insert your hyperlink, hold down the Ctrl key and press "V" (I have no idea why they didn't use P for paste.)

You'll see the address all typed in. When you submit the post (or go to Preview) you'll see the word "hyperlink" instead of the address.

Or you can do it the long way, which is to manually type the address in. But I'll warn you, that takes longer, and with a long address, you're likely to make a mistake.

Here's some help files I put in my journal, too:
http://davesgarden.com/journal/vbc/gardenwife/5250/

OK, here goes..
http://davesgarden.com/showthread/206847.html

By Gosh, I think I've got it! This opens up a whole new world for me. You may wish you never taught me!

Gotta question Vols... what about synonyms? How should they be dealt with? Looking up Ajania ... I see it's a newly seperated from the Chrysanthemum genus. So ... Ajania pacificum is the former Chrysanthemum pacificum... and since they are both have their own entries in the PDB - we have a duplicate entry.

http://plantsdatabase.com/go/2338.html

http://plantsdatabase.com/go/992.html

By adding the synonym to the genus entry it messes with the link to other plants in genus. Where's the right place to add a synonym?? Or should it only be added into the description?

EEEEK..it's getting scary out there for a dumb but willing gardener!

Sue, I posed a very similar question to Dave today, as a change request.

I'm proposing that we have a field (or perhaps two fields - one for genus and one for species) for synonyms, directly following the fields for the plant's name.

For plants with multiple synonyms, I don't know. I'm thinking that perhaps we list only one, and if there are multiples, they should go in the General Description. When there is a synonym, there's most typically only one.

I'm also wondering if we shouldn't somehow create a separate but linked entry for synonyms. (Just enough information to direct a reader back to the preferred name.)

So if anyone has a good idea on how to approach this, I'm all ears.

I've never seen a thread that requested info to complete database entry. If I started a database, but didn't know the zoning or the height, or how to propagate, I'll bet I could get many responses and hyperlinks by starting a thread and asking for input. I could update the database from the responses, rather than have them add information themselves as an added entry. Does that make any sense?

It seems the fastest way to get a response to a thread is to pose a question. Most people love to share. It seems we all ought to be responsible for editing our own entries, and willing to be corrected by email or on a thread, rather than multiple conflicting info on the database entry.

Weezin, it does make sense. Unfortunately, some of the database entries were created before we had all the fields we do now (pertaining to height, zone, etc.) And some entries were created by members who have come and gone.

So....it comes down to some incomplete entries are probably not going to be completed by the person who originated it. If/when you come across such an entry, I'd like to know about it; otherwise, I'm tasked with entering each entry, and analyzing it for incomplete information, researching it and finishing it myself. I *could* do that, but it would take a huge amount of time, so I'm grateful for any leads or tips that people care to post here.

I think the seperate field for synonyms is the best route to take. Maybe the box should be kept away from the genus & species boxes because I think it may cause confusion if it's right next to them. The whole genus/species things is hard enough for some and if you throw in synonyms it will really get scary.

Weez - we had a contest a while back that consisted of who could plug in the most database entries by a certain date. It was a huge success and there ended up being ...what?...close to 2000 entries added? However, many of the entries were done in haste. I think were all guilty of rushing and not completing some entries. I know I've added quite a few because I had a picture of the plant. I loaded pictures in with no descriptions and very little info. Duplicates are also a big problem. We're not trying to point fingers or chastize anyone for mistakes - we just want the database to be as accurate and informative as possible.

On that note ... I went through some of the dianthus this morning. I see sweet william 'Sooty' http://plantsdatabase.com/go/664.html
should go under the Dianthus barbatus entry as a cultivar. Terry can you move pictures over to other entries or do you have to go through the e-mail route to contact the person who added the photo?

Hi, go_vols: I want to be a help, not just another problem, but I have lots of questions before I can be of service to you. So far, I've just caused you more work.

Here's where I'm weak: Determining plant families. I can determine the simple things when making a new entry, but am uncomfortable in issues concerning duplicate plants with conflicting family info.

Here's where I'm strong: I really enjoy organizing data and making it consistant. When I began visiting Dave's Garden, it was to use the database to make a catalog of my own plants. Since I sell plants each summer, I wanted to have something visual to show customers rather than have to answer lots of questions or look things up on the spot. Once this is done, I can create my own plant tags, as well.

So, at least in the plants I grow or anticipate growing, I already have pages with essentially the same info as your data base. I even used the same format with some slight changes. Where info was missing, I looked it up elsewhere. I could be helpful in supplying missing entries, photos (mine or friends). I can even offer cool weather cultivation and propagation if you like. I can point out redundant or conflicting info in followup entries.

Here's how I'd like to do it: I'd like to be able to cut the database pages as written, paste them to Works or Word, then make corrections, additions, pose questions where unsure and email them as documents to someone who is editing. On these pages, I would not alter the data as entered, but print the addition entries in red and the deletions, changes in purple (two colors not used in the databases). This would save my rewriting all this.

Here's what I need: A botony guru I can contact for specific questions about certain plants. Someone I can email with a quick question who can answer it when they have time. I know you and Baa could do this, but you two are already up to your garden trowels in tasks. Even reading the entries I've already made in this thread is taking up time you could spend actually doing the work you want to get done.

At any rate, let me give this a try. I'm going to work on a page to send you or someone else who is doing the actual editing. Do attachments travel through the emails sent through Dave's or do they need to be sent direct?

go_vols, Ctrl + C is copy, Ctrl + X is cut ;)

By the wya - what are the spelling of the name thing for? For example lupulus - say Lu-poo-lus or something in the PDB... For a finn to say that it sound very silly. Doesn't it sound same if you read and say it just Lupulus? Oddball.....

Weez one thing that is very helpful about the data base - you can go to an entry - and click on the genus of the plant and it will bring up all the entries that are listed under that genus. For example - "Dianthus". If you were to look up sweet williams - You'll find it under Dianthus barbatus. Click on Dianthus - is brings up all the Dianthus species... cheddar pinks, allwood pinks, maiden pinks as well as the sweet williams. You can then see what the plant family is - all the plants in that genus are in the Caryophyllaceae family. It helps me when I'm not sure what the family is. It doesn't help if it's a new addition and there are no other plants listed with in that genus - but I think most things are there.

Evert

You can pronounce botanical names anyway you want. If someone were to write down some language like Spanish, I would have a great deal of difficulty in knowing how the words might be pronounced. Not everyone is used to botanical names so it can seem difficult. Its really just a guide to how most people would say it using more familiar syllables, especially when we are looking at names like Ctenanthe.

WZ anybody is welcome to send me an email, I just can't promise to be correct LOL

I don't have any trouble when it's pretty cut and dry. It's issues that you mentioned earlier on in this thread concerning conficting info within the database. . Conflicting genus, new spelling, how to list hybrids, etc. I've got books with info, I've got botany sites earmarked in favorites, but once in a while I have a question and need to talk to a person.

If I use information from the database to edit the database, I feel like I'm fixing a knife wound with a knife. I can see that I need to sit down with these books I borrowed and learn more about plant families. I need this information more and more as I branch out and grow more varieties.

If I can learn more about plant families, work on my own catalogs, and help edit Dave's database, it's a win-win for everybody, isn't it? I just need a plan that includes a consistent method of research, or I'll be off and running in twelve different directions.

Weezin, an easy way to find out the plant's family name (if we don't have any other plants in the same genera) is to do an internet search with the genus and species name plus the word family. Nine times out of ten, you'll get the family name in the first few results. And feel free to email Baa or me (or any of the many knowledgeable folks around here.) I'm always glad to try to help, although I'm not ALWAYS at my computer (even though it may seem that way, LOL.)

Evert, yes you are correct that C is for copy and X is for cut (but X only works in certain programs and interfaces, so I rarely use it; hence my mistake.)

As far as the pronunciation information is concerned, it is to help those of us who aren't familiar with how to say the terms, some of which can look pretty daunting until they're broken down a bit. Those who live in countries where the botanical names are frequently used in conversation have a distinct advantage over us Americans.

I'd even go so far as to say that many American gardeners (who may be quite proficient in growing plants) have a nearly phobic reaction to using the "real names" of the plants they grow. (And it's a vicious cycle, since our most visible "experts" seldom use botanical names, and so we rarely hear them pronounced on television or radio, which makes us shy away from them even more.)

Hmm, maybe it is helpful then =) Anyway, if I'd say the names like the pronounce names I would sound like I'm in drunk and speaking something weird. ;>

Finnish in some ways very simple, everything is said as it is written. For example Philippines - you say it Filippines, here it is Filippiinit, and it is said just Filippiinit. Also we say most botanical names like it.. ehmm.

Ok, go-vols, you're right, "I'm botony impaired, but I can change...if I have to." I think I've been darting around the net like a dog chasing its tail. Time to get down to business and make this a learning situation, as well.

Interesting observation about botanical names in this country. I've noticed that our seed and plant catalogs often omit the botanical names, but T&M is always a good source. The English seem to have a handle on this. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise, since we have the same problem discussing our own body parts in clinical terms!

One of my plant programs (gosh, I'd forgotten I had that!) has an audio to pronounce the botanical names, & I'm embarrassed sometimes to realize I've been butchering the pronunciation for years! I really appreciate this entry in our data base here.

Regarding pronunciation. I have been doing some research on this particular subject as of late, and I think the best advice I found is this: Just make sure you pronounce all of the letters (Latin is different from English in that respect - no silent letters), and then work it around a few times to find a pronunciation that is pleasing and easy for you. Because no one who spoke the original language is around today to correct us, LOL.

Good point, go_vols. OK, here I go with another question. Where are all these "more info" links coming from in the databases (in the family info)? I've gone into the "new database entry" link, and I can't find that option anywhere. Has it been discontinued, or does it appear when edits were made by the original contributor.

I've noticed that pronunciation is often included in the botanical names section, but there is no pronunciation section which would ordinarily appear as "not specified". Are some of these database entries on an old format, and do you want us to make note of that, as well?

(Vols I think Weez gets the prize as the first person to notice and mention Botanary) :)

hehehehe, okay Weezin - you win. You were the first to make notice of the new feature Dave launched yesterday. It's not the official, final version, which is why we haven't made a big to-do about it yet. We wanted to get a feel for how people react to it when they see it imbedded in the database entries.

Here's the skinny: The thread regarding plant names' etymology is the final work needed to get Botanary fully up and running. It is somewhat similar to Gardenology, and acts as a complement to that feature. But Botanary (Baa came up with the name, by the way) is specifically geared toward botanical names, their meaning, and pronunciation. And Dave tied it into the Plants Database so that you'll see the information links appearing next to the genus and species names.

And no, you no longer have to fill in the pronunciation field in the current database. In fact, I'm sure Dave will soon "kill" the field, since it no longer appears in the entry when you view it (after creating it.)

Glad someobdy finally noticed it (grin) Please tell us what you think now that you know what it is :)

Sue, I've taken care of the Dianthus entry - thanks :)

Dave & Vols - I noticed it right off! In fact I added a couple of entries to it. The more info link doesn't show up next to their name tho. How does that work?

Hmmm. Sue I think it's probably a bit like Gardenology, where Dave has to do a "refresh" to get them to display. Anything you want added, please send it to me to include in the final file that he will upload (otherwise, your additions might get overwritten!)

You're right Vols, it has to do a database refresh. The refresh is now set to refresh every 10 minutes.

Sue - would you check your entry and see if it's working now?

dave

It works! Cooool! I just HAD to add brugmansia....

I noticed the Botanary was running while I was checking my PDB entries. Great stuff and its good to see the format is like Gardenology, very easy to use.

On the subject of errors, I noticed a double. Stachys monieri
http://plantsdatabase.com/go/2614.html

It's already listed under S monnieri, its often misspelled and might be how the confusion came about.

Thanks Baa - I took care of it. Now to go check out what Sue put for Brugmansia - my curiosity is more than a little piqued!

Hi, go_vols: I had to immerge from the wonder world of cranesbills to mist all the green babies and begin transplanting...did four flats during NYPD Blue & Philly! I'll return to the cranesbills in the AM, when I can find out whose in the data base under false "pratenses"...LOL. Gosh, that was my first acronym!

All this work on the database is pretty exciting, and it wears out the brain after awhile...anyone in the house have a hit of estrogen..my brain is fading fast. Oh, well, time to go to bed anyway...WZ