It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 5

Hi Keith,

You are right that you can find new zinnia varieties using the technique you describe, which involves very little work. And you can actually make a lot of progress by simply saving seeds from your favorite zinnias every year. But, if you are so inclined, you can go deeper into the hobby, if your curiosity about zinnias leads you there.

Over in the Annuals forum, in the "Annuals: zinnia problem" message thread, I told Brenda about the green seed technique for saving zinnia seeds as a means of minimizing the risk of water damage and bird damage to the seeds in the zinnia flower heads. I mentioned that another implication of the green seed technique is that it opens up the possibility of starting a second generation of zinnias while the first generation is still growing. I told Brenda that I would go into that in more detail in a subsequent message. I think I will do that here in this Hybridizer's forum, and refer Brenda over here, because it has applicability here and the Hybridizer's forum is one of Dave's Garden's forums that is open to outsiders without requiring them to become members of Dave's Garden. It would be good if we could widen our circle of people interested in growing zinnias.

I originally experimented with planting green zinnia seeds as a means of getting a quick second generation of zinnias. It was another zinnia breeder (Jackie R over in GardenWeb) who informed me that I could dry my green seeds for storage and later use, because she had been doing that for quite some time. I started doing that myself, because saving green zinnia seeds has several advantages.

When you are trying to get a quick second generation of zinnias, you are in a hurry to get the green seeds to germinate. Drying them takes time and if you plant them immediately after pulling them from a zinnia flower head, they don't germinate immediately because the green seed coat is alive and impermeable to water. When a green seed is planted, the seed coat has to die and become permeable to water before the green seed germinates. That can take two or three weeks, which significantly delays getting that second generation of zinnias. But if you breach the seed coat in some way, water can get immediate access to the embryo and cause prompt germination in two to four days. Several ways of doing that are shown in the accompanying picture.

Notice the "nearly naked" embryo in that picture. At first that was sort of an accident, but I discovered that while you are opening the seed coat, it isn't hard to go on and extract the embryo altogether. That was how the technique of growing zinnias from embryos instead of seeds evolved. That technique was illustrated in a message above.

I have a bunch of zinnias growing right now beside my computer that were started from green seeds and embryos that were harvested from selected specimens before our killing frost. That third generation of zinnias this year is budding out, with the potential of starting a fourth generation of zinnias before Christmas.

Because you extract green seeds from a growing zinnia flower head, the green seed technique lets you get a second generation of zinnias growing and developing while the parent mother zinnia plant is still growing and developing. That's a little bit reminiscent of a mother hen with her baby chicks.

ZM

Zen, you have a picture of a Zinnia that I'm particularly fond of. I'm talking about the recurved or pagoda style...I think it's magenta with long petals (left of the spider). Have you saved seeds from this? If you have will you trade for something on my have list?

Hi Robin,

" Have you saved seeds from this? If you have will you trade for something on my have list? "

I saved a limited amount of seed from the specimen you indicated, but I will be using all of them next year in an attempt to improve the strain.

My breeder specimens of zinnias are fairly heterogeneous, meaning that they have a variety of different grandparents and great grandparents. The picture on the left is another bloom on the "pagoda" zinnia you indicated. It was packed with numerous cactus-style petals, much more so than ordinary.

To show how much difference there can be between one generation of zinnias and the next, the picture on the right was the mother of that "pagoda" zinnia. I referred to the mother as my "Pink Shaggy Dog", and considered it to be an important breeder zinnia because it had such long hanging-down petals. If those petals had been pointing more or less straight out, as the petals do on a lot of zinnias, that zinnia could have been more than 8 inches across. So I consider the genes coming from the Pink Shaggy Dog to be potentially useful for one of my goals, namely a new strain of zinnias with huge blooms. That's not my only goal, but it is one of them.

I anticipate that for at least the next year or two I will not be sharing, trading, or selling seeds from any of my breeder zinnias. I will be growing all of them myself in my quest for strains of novel new zinnia varieties. My basic breeding methods are rather simple: make a lot of crosses, grow a lot of zinnias, watch for mutations, and use only the best of those to produce seeds for the next generation.

ZM


This message was edited Nov 18, 2013 9:59 PM

ZM, that sounds like a blast I will have to read how to breed zinnias. I am 71. ZM, how long have you taken to get this far?

I understand the point...'make my own mutations'...believe me, I'm going to try and replicate that one.

IMHO you had saved only a few seeds from a winner (only to keep trying for a winner). Have you seen one like that on the market? I rather like 'sister' pagoda too.

Hi Sharon,

"...how long have you taken to get this far?"

I started back in 2005, by planting a few Whirligigs, Burpee Burpeeana Giants, Burpee Giant Hybrids (now apparently a discontinued strain) and some Scabiosa Flowered zinnias. I made quite a few crosses, and in 2006 I got an excitingly different "sunflower flowered" zinnia (picture attached) from a cross between a Scabiosa Flowered zinnia and probably one of the Whirligig specimens.

I had never seen any zinnia like it, and that one zinnia was enough to get me hooked, although I had some other interesting results from crosses between Scabiosa Flowered zinnias and the large cactus flowered zinnias.

So really it took me only a year to get some unique zinnias that you couldn't get from a seed packet. My zinnia patch gets more interesting to me as each year goes by. It's an absorbing hobby, and easy to get into.

ZM

Hi Robin,

"Have you seen one like that on the market? I rather like 'sister' pagoda too."

I haven't seen one like it advertised or on the picture of a cactus strain seed packet or catalog entry, but I think that if you grow a lot of cactus flowered zinnias, you will probably find one or more like it, or very similar to it. You might find one even better. Over at GardenWeb, a zinnia breeder, Jackie R, showed a picture of one very much like it and possibly better. They aren't extremely common, but they aren't super rare either. Because bees do so much accidental hybridization, field-grown zinnias can show a lot of variation that doesn't get into the catalog pictures or seed packet pictures.

And you can induce more variation by crossing cactus type zinnias with other types, like Whirligigs. Whirligigs can be a "secret sauce" when you cross them with cactus-type zinnias. The F1 hybrids may not be so remarkable, but further recombinations in F2, F3, and beyond generations can bring out characteristics that were not obvious in either the original cactus zinnias or the original Whirligig zinnias. And the scabiosa flowered zinnias are full of variations and breeding potential. That "pagoda" cactus may actually have some scabiosa "blood" in it, like in the attached picture of a scabiosa hybrid.

ZM

Am I understanding that you will not pay that much attention to the beauties you create because you're focused on other breeding goals. I'd like to buy all three of those Zinnias...I think you should register them. To my mind, they are unique and very pleasing, why not register them?

Hi Robin,

"Am I understanding that you will not pay that much attention to the beauties you create because you're focused on other breeding goals."

I am not totally ignoring any of my zinnias that I consider to be of "breeder quality". It is true that I neglected to pollinate the Pagoda specimen a lot this year, because I was much more focused on making cross pollinations between my new star-petaled mutant and some of my tubular petaled specimens in an attempt to get new and improved variations of that new petal form.

The flower form of the Pagoda zinnia is not as rare as the star petaled form, so the star petaled form got much more of my time this year. However, I share your admiration for the Pagoda flower form, and I will continue to develop that unusual cactus flowerform as well. I plan to grow a lot of my cross-pollinated cactus flowered zinnias next year, looking for further improvement in size and flower form. But I will also be growing a lot of the progeny from the star petaled mutant, looking for further improvements to the tubular petal structure and the flower forms that have it. And I have several other ongoing zinnia projects.

"I'd like to buy all three of those Zinnias..."

I took up this zinnia hobby purely for my personal enjoyment, with no intention of ever selling anything. And although my successes have been much more than I originally anticipated, I still don't anticipate selling or distributing my zinnia seeds. After some of my new zinnia strains become stable, I will want them to become available, and I might entertain selling them to a seed company who would have the facilities to grow them in commercial quantities and make them available to the general public. But that is years in the future, and for the time being I plan to continue this zinnia hobby purely for the fun of it. I do consider your offer to buy all three of them as the ultimate compliment, and I thank you for that compliment.

"...I think you should register them. To my mind, they are unique and very pleasing, why not register them?"

I agree with you that they are unique and pleasing, but I don't know of any Registry for Zinnias. Zinnias aren't like daylilies or irises or dahlias or roses, in that zinnias are primarily grown from seeds, and not from rhizomes or bulbs or tubers or grafted rootstock or such. It is true that zinnias can be grown asexually from cuttings or tissue cultures, but that is not done commercially. At least, not currently. So, at this time, registering zinnias is probably not an option.

I am attaching pictures of my star petaled mutant. It got a lot of my attention this year. It has obvious flaws, such as the brown tips on the points on the stars, but it is a different new petal structure for zinnias. I want to explore the possibilities of recombining its genetics with some of my other zinnias, including those with tubular type petals. I continue to look for new flower forms in zinnias.

ZM

Hi ZM,

Time to think outside-the-box. With your breeding talent with the zinnia, can you tell me what mix caused this rudbeckia to throw white in its blossoms. This was a strain that I have grown for years (volunteers) and there was only once this happened. I have never seen one like this elsewhere and it has not happened since. At the time I could have saved the seed, I'm sorry to say I did not. Just curious???

ZINNIA'S GALORE..........WISH THEY WERE BLOOMING RIGHT NOW AS I CAN SPEND HOURS AMIDST THE ZINNIA. ZM - YOU TALKED ABOUT WHITE ONES, THERE ARE A FEW HERE, BUT NOTHING COMPERABLE TO YOUR CREATIONS.

ZM - THIS IS THE ONE I WANTED TO SEND AS I ESPECIALL LIKE THE ORANGE ZINNIA WITH THE PINK CENTER - THE SECOND BLOOM OVER FROM THE LOWER LEFT.

These are some zinnias I had grown


http://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/12670247

http://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/2329009

Hi Brenda,

I am no expert on Rudbeckia, but that Rudbeckia looks like Rudbeckia hirta, common name, Black Eyed Suzan. A think that a breeder of Black Eyed Suzans would have been excited to get some seeds from that mutant.

It's hard to say what might have caused that mutation. Some strange chemicals can cause mutations, and Cosmic Rays have even been credited with causing mutations. Occasionally a mishap occurs during sexual cell division.

Whatever the cause, mutations are relatively rare on our time scale. That is why it is so exciting when a mutation happens in our garden. I have never seen a Black Eyed Suzan like your mutant. Rudbeckia hirta "Prairie Sun"

http://www.tmseeds.com/category/s?keyword=rudbeckia

has whitish petal ends and a greenish white center, which is completely different from your mutant. I think your mutant probably was unique.

I hope that you will take up amateur zinnia breeding, and be on the lookout for any mutant zinnias. As Forrest Gump quoted his mother in the movie, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get." Zinnias are kind of like that, too.

ZM

ZM, thanks so much for sharing your valuable info. I collected a bunch of Zinnia seeds (a mix) from a gardener friend's garden and will start on my 'Make 'em Look Like ZM's Project' late winter. I'll be thinking of your three little beauties the WHOLE time.

Hi again, Brenda,

That orange bloom with a pink center is quite significant. That contrast in color is a bit unusual, and worthy of consideration when evaluating a zinnia. The center of a zinnia is kind of a forgotten flower part, and it is an important part that we breeders of our zinnias should take notice of when we are picking which zinnias to use as breeders.

The first picture shows that the center can have a striking contrast in the composition of a zinnia bloom, especially when there are unusual bicolor petals. The second picture shows that a large sized center can be significant. The third picture shows that a hidden center can cause a whole new look in a zinnia bloom. The fourth picture shows that a white center looks "right" in a white zinnia (and is attractive to a nine-spotted cucumber beetle). The fifth picture shows that when the color of the center matches the base color of bicolored petals, the effect unifies the whole central region of the bloom.

I could go on with this theme of the various roles of the center in a zinnia bloom, but I think that zinnia DNA has many hidden surprises that we haven't seen yet, regarding what zinnia centers can do. It is good that you called attention to zinnia centers.

ZM

ZM I prefer photo # 5

Brenda I like the red on the lowest part. Both they are all nice.

Hi Robin,

Your message came in while I was composing that last response to Brenda.

"I collected a bunch of Zinnia seeds (a mix) from a gardener friend's garden and will start on my 'Make 'em Look Like ZM's Project' late winter."

You must have a much warmer climate than we have here in east central Kansas. I am growing a limited number of zinnias indoors this Winter, but I definitely couldn't start anything outside until next Spring.

I don't know how varied your gardener friend's zinnias were, but I would suggest a minor purchase of a few additional seeds to add some variety to your genetic mix. Several seed companies offer Whirligig zinnias, but Stokes has reasonable prices, especially if you get more quantity than a single packet.

http://www.stokeseeds.com/product.aspx?ProductID=39127&CategoryID=540

Whirligigs have much more diversity than any seed packet picture or catalog picture might suggest. Whirligigs differ from most zinnias, in that they were derived from an interspecific cross between Z. elegans (violacea) and Z. haageana. Those hybrids had the potential of being fertile, because both species had the same chromosome number (24). The progeny from those hybrids (F2 and beyond) are capable of recombining genetics from both species in many different ways. And Whirligigs are the progeny of those hybrids. I have found that crossing Whirligigs with my favorite large zinnias and scabiosa flowered zinnias has yielded a whole spectrum of new variation. In short, Whirligigs are the "secret sauce" in my zinnia breeding program.

If I were to recommend just two additional strains, they would be the scabiosa flowered zinnias and Burpee's Burpeeana Giants. And there are many other interesting strains of zinnias that give you a mind-boggling astronomical number of possible crosses that you could make. And don't forget, you can make crosses between your own hybrids. That's fair, and fun.

"I'll be thinking of your three little beauties the WHOLE time."

Don't limit yourself to just those three. With zinnias, the possibilities are almost endless. Breeding zinnias is a little like pulling the handle on a slot machine. The more times you pull the handle, the better your chances are of hitting a jackpot. And there is no reason you couldn't hit a bigger jackpot than I might hit. Lady Luck rules this game.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hi Lucy,

Glad to have you back.

" I prefer photo # 5"

I was just touting Whirligigs to Robin. Interestingly, photo #5 is of a Whirligig grown from a seed straight out of a Whirligig seed packet from Stokes. No interference from me on that one. I grew a whole bed of Whirligigs and each new bloom was a surprise. I will be growing another bed of Stokes' Whirligigs next year. I'm always looking for "new blood" for my "gene pool".

ZM

I love #5. I am going to order some seeds. I just throw them on the ground this time of yer and in lat April, early May thy start coming up all over.

Having lived in Las Vegas since 1960, I have heard of Lady Luck. I do not gamble. Never did. Just was not my thing.

It has taken me many years to finally become a decent gardener. You can tell ZM has not been to Las Vegas for a long time because slot machines no longer have handles. LOL.

We are still in the high 60s but will go down in temperatures quickly when our windy season moves in. Roses are still blooming but leaves look bad. I usually throw seed from the first blooms of the zinnias and they come up in our heat in about 4 days during the summer. But I have beautiful soil because of composting for the past 12 years when we moved into the property.

Zen, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I really appreciate it and you. Sharon

ZM

I checked the Stokes website for Whirligig Zinnia and I cannot imagine a 1/4 pound of zinnia seed. Yes, quite the bargain.

Thanks for the feedback on my Rudbeckia.

Of the pictures you posted most recently, the last three iced the cake for me. Your # 3 (center) must be what you refer to as your scabocia zinnia?

The # 2 picture with the purple center is about the same shade of purple as the orange with purple center that I had grown.

I must order some of the Whirigig's. Good point you made about them.

Brenda

Hi Sharon,

And I also appreciate your comments and you. Yes, it has been a few decades since I was in Vegas. When I was much younger I had several occasions to make business trips to Las Vegas to help install some software at Nellis Air Force Base. Slot machines were everywhere. As I walked down the ramp from the airplane, carrying my carry-on bag and heading to the luggage pickup area, there was a slot machine right at the end of the ramp.

I had a couple of quarters in my pocket, so I fed them to the machine. The second quarter hit a jackpot, and suddenly I had a pocket full of quarters, and I was kind of "hooked". I mentally budgeted $20 as the amount I would lose in Vegas on a trip, and I stuck to that.

It actually took me several hours in a casino to lose that. I followed the same plan on subsequent trips to Nellis. Lose $20, and quit, and treat it as cheap entertainment money. (Actually, $20 was worth a lot more back in those days).

On my last trip, I hit a "run" of jackpots and found myself $135 ahead, so I vowed to quit while I was ahead, and I did.

Until many years later, while attending a wedding in Las Vegas, I remembered that $135 and decided to "go for it". Needless to say, I eventually lost the whole $135 and quit.

So the saying that "the house always wins" eventually came true for me, after many years. Except I quit at a point where I was even, and had the consolation of being "ahead of the game" for over two decades. They say that for many people, gambling is an addiction, and I believe that. In the casino there were people who had been pulling those slot machine levers for hours, and you could tell that many of them were no strangers to it, because their right arms were noticeably bigger than their left arms, like you see on some people who bowl a lot. I guess the new slot machines have solved that problem.

Your Whirligig zinnias will appreciate your composty soil. I still have a long way to go in that area. Although I did till in a couple of old compost piles into my zinnia garden yesterday and the day before. There were some live earthworms in that compost. I don't know if earthworms love me -- they probably don't, because I have undoubtedly cut a few of them in two with my tiller. But I definitely like earthworms. I am attaching a few pictures of some of my Whirligig specimens from past years. Whirligigs have a variety of petal forms.

ZM

Hi Brenda,

"I cannot imagine a 1/4 pound of zinnia seed. Yes, quite the bargain."

I actually purchased a quarter pound package of Whirligigs from Stokes a few years ago. I will be planting the last of those this Spring. One advantage to having a huge excess of seeds is that you can pour some of them out on a sheet of white paper and go through them, picking out your "favorite" individual seeds.

I have noticed that there is some correlation between petal seed shape and the shape of the petal. Long thin seeds tend to produce zinnias with long thin petals. Broad seeds produce broad petals. If you are going for bigger flowers, pick out the biggest seeds. You probably don't need the 1/4-pound package right now, or maybe for years, but there are advantages to getting the big package anyway. Namely, you can get "pick of the litter" by selecting out the individual seeds that appeal to you. There is a lot of difference between the individual seeds, and a big package of seeds lets you take advantage of those differences.

"Your # 3 (center) must be what you refer to as your scabocia zinnia? "

It was produced by crossing a scabiosa flowered zinnia with a "regular" larger zinnia. And perhaps crossing two of those scabiosa hybrids together. There was a lot of scabiosa crossing involved. The big attraction of scabiosa flowered zinnias to me is that the scabious flower form doesn't have those "fuzzy yellow starfish" pollen florets. Instead, their florets have the petal color and can build up an attractive petal-colored center. If Whirligig ancestry is involved, the scabious florets can have a contrasting color to the petal color, but still not be "fuzzy yellow". One current source of scabious zinnias is the Scabious Flowered Mixed strain from Thompson & Morgan:

http://www.tmseeds.com/product/Zinnia-Scabious-Flowered-Mixed/Shop_Annual_Flower_Seed

Parks Seeds offers the newer Candy Mixed strain:

http://parkseed.com/candy-mix-zinnia-seeds/p/51989-PK-P1/

The Scabiosa flowered and Candy Mix strains are probably available from other seed companies as well. Swallowtail Gardens is one source:

http://www.swallowtailgardenseeds.com/assets/zinnia_scabiosa_flowered_mix_3.jpg

I should add one qualifier about the scabious zinnia strains currently in the marketplace. Namely, they don't produce a high percentage of the scabious flower forms, and there will be a lot of non-scabious specimens that you will probably want to cull and discard. As a zinnia breeder, I am happy if I get one good zinnia in 20, but a lot of gardeners would be appalled to find so many off-type specimens. Just be mentally prepared that your commercial scabious zinnias will contain a lot of culls. But, to me, the few "good ones" make up for it. Not all people would be as forgiving as me.

I am attaching a few pictures of my zinnias that were derived from scabious crosses. There were many more than are shown in this 5-picture gallery.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

This message was edited Nov 21, 2013 12:36 PM

ok #3 ☺

OK, I got it. I will order the seed, lay them out on a white sheet of paper, take a photo and you can tell me what I have. LOL. Or, I could separate the seeds, and identify what I planted where, so I would know what seed is what.

'ZM, you do realize I am 71 and do not have forever for this exercise. LOL.

ZM, I cannot believe you tilled your worms.

We had a steady rain here all day. So thankful for the moisture. Suppose to rain again tomorrow and then we will be sunny but 15 degrees lower in temperatures.

So looking forward to warm weather in April. Just around the corner. Have a great evening and a wonderful day tomorrow. You all stay safe. Mother Winter

Hi Sharon,

"...you do realize I am 71 and do not have forever for this exercise. LOL"

I am also a senior citizen. But, as they say, age is not important, it's how young you feel. And my zinnia hobby keeps me feeling young. There is always something to look forward to. And even if you don't grow zinnias indoors during the Winter months like I do, there is always planning to do and seeds to mess with and reading about zinnias to do. I'll touch on those things in a subsequent message.

" I will order the seed, lay them out on a white sheet of paper, take a photo and you can tell me what I have. "

That sounds like a plan. Let's do it.

" I cannot believe you tilled your worms. "

It's not as bad as you think. I piled the aged compost several inches deep on some garden soil that needed both improving and elevating to smooth out and make more level a slope. So I needed to mix the compost into the soil underneath. There were earthworms in the compost, and a few earthworms in the existing garden soil. I could have used a spading fork (I have two of them) to dig the compost in, but I am a senior citizen and we had inclement weather pending the next day, so I needed to use the tiller to get the job done fast. My tiller gets soil blending done with less effort and much faster than using the spading fork.

My tiller is a mid-tined Merry Tiller that has a triple reduction enclosed chain drive transmission for extremely high tine torque and very slow tine speed. So there is no need for a dirt shield and I have full view of the tilling zone and a delicate clutch control over the tines. If I dig up a toad, lizard, or tiny snake, I can instantly let off on the clutch to stop the tines, so I can rescue the animal unharmed. Or, if I dig up some old artifact like a belt buckle, a tiny toy, a nail or spike, or a piece of glass or pottery, I can stop the tines instantly and retrieve that. I always remove any foreign object that might be harmful to a person.

Rear tined tillers have a high tine speed of 200 RPM and higher, while my mid-tined Merry Tiller has a low tine speed that can be as low as 30 RPM. While a rear-tined tiller can act like a high speed blender set on "puree", my tiller does a gentle blending like a hand mixer. The rear tined tillers make mince meat out of earth worms, but my tiller might just cut an earth worm in two to become two earth worms.

"We had a steady rain here all day."

We had a light freezing rain last night. It got down to 18 last night, it was 22 this morning, and our high today is predicted to be 32. Our deck is covered with glaze ice right now. I'm glad I got that tilling done when I did. Today is an inside gardening day for me. I have zinnias growing on the shelves right by my computer, and they do need my attention.

ZM

Can Zinnias be propagated by stem cuttings?

So ZM. how do you grow zinnias inside.

We have had rain for more than 24 hours. Very unusual for Las Vegas. The valley is surrounded by mountains and the mountains are all getting snow. Our high today was 50. Rain is moving out tomorrow and we will be back in the 60s.

I have plumeria, tropical hibiscus and Philippine Violet and Delonix plants in the garage garden area and coleus and geranium cuttings in small three shelved greenhouses. I am a zone pusher. Good thing I have a three car garage.

You are so right about age. I can outwork most 50 year old individuals. My father's training. "You quit when you are done, not when you are tired". I can still hear his voice. I was the oldest of 4 children. But I did learn a great work ethic. And I relax by moving, not sitting.

Looking forward to hearing how you grow zinnias in the house.

Stay safe and have fun. Sharon "Mother" Winter

Yes, with several provisos. You need to use something like Physan 20 to prevent bacterial rot of the soft tissue. You need to use a good rooting hormone. You need to provide a humidity dome and adequate lighting. You need to have a good rooting medium that provides adequate aeration. You may need to provide bottom heat. It takes about 10 or 12 days for the cutting to strike enough roots to allow you to remove the humidity dome.

In previous years I took numerous cuttings in the Fall as a "lifeboat" for breeder zinnias that were threatened by a killing frost. This year I took green seeds instead, to start a new generation indoors rather than prolong the current generation indoors. That new indoor generation is coming into bloom now.

In the past, as an experiment, I have taken cuttings from zinnia plants that were themselves started from cuttings. Those second generation cuttings produced plants that could have had third generation cuttings taken from them, although I did not choose to do that. Actually, I wonder if a zinnia plant is potentially immortal if you continue to take cuttings from cuttings repeatedly.

A problem is that the average zinnia plant doesn't have enough nodes to provide the material for very many cuttings. In my Fall "lifeboat" operations, I sacrificed the entire plant for cutting material, but even then didn't get very many cuttings from a plant. I don't think that cuttings are a practical method for the commercial multiplication of a zinnia strain, because the multiplication factor isn't very high. I think that you would need to use Tissue Culture for a high multiplication factor.

ZM

Hi Sharon,

I will respond in some detail tomorrow. Outdoor zinnia growing is easy, but indoor zinnia growing is not easy, and it's time for me to "hit the hay".

Goodnight,

ZM

Actually, way past your bedtime.

Just an aside note ZM; thanks for the photography skills -- you do your specimens justice.

So are you still sleeping ZM. I have to go to airport at 11:30 to pick up daughter and 3 granddaughters that are coming for Thanksgiving.

We have had a nice steady rain for 48+ hours. It moved out around 7pm. Heading East. Not normal for this neck of the woods but we will take it.

Sharon

ZM, where did you go. I hope all is well with you.

It stopped raining and the Las Vegas sun is back.

Sharon

Hi Sharon,

All is well. Company dropped in for the weekend. It has been bitter cold here for the last two days. I will go into detail about growing zinnias indoors and post a few pictures. I actually have a few indoor zinnias starting to bloom out now, and I need to repot a lot of them. And do some cross pollination as well.

More later.

ZM

OK. I was just concerned because you just dropped off into the obis......

Hello again, Sharon,

OK, I have a software update download going, so I have some time to talk about growing zinnias indoors. It isn't particularly hard to start some zinnias indoors a few weeks early to set them out in your garden after it safe to do so in the Spring. Although that usually does require fluorescent lights, pots, growing medium, and possibly some soluble nutrients, it isn't nearly as hard as actually growing the zinnias indoors from seed to flower to seed to complete the cycle.

As far as I know, no book discusses growing zinnias as a house plant. And there is good reason for that. Houseplants usually have minimal light requirements, are relatively slow growing, and have modest requirements for water, nutrition, and care in general. Zinnias are not like that at all, in that they require a lot of light, grow rapidly, and use a lot of water and nutrients.

If you take the time, effort, and expenditure of money, you can grow zinnias indoors successfully. It can even be gratifying to meet and overcome the challenges of growing zinnias indoors, just as people who grow orchids indoors enjoy doing that, despite the challenges. Zinnias are probably at least as difficult to grow indoors as orchids. My zinnias are my orchids.

I am not an organic gardener, although I use some of their methods, particularly soil improvement by composting. It's hard to get too much organic matter in garden soil. But I have no compunction against using "chemicals" along as they are handled safely. I don't understand some of the organic gardening dogmas. Organic gardeners seem to approve of using Epsom Salts to provide some much needed magnesium (a component of chlorophyll). Epsom Salts, which is Magnesium sulfate, is somehow organic, although Potassium sulfate fertilizer is somehow a dreaded chemical. That seems inconsistent to me, particularly since both substances could come from the same chemical plant. But that is irrelevant to the discussion here, except to explain that how an organic gardener could grow zinnias indoors is beyond my expertise. It might be possible, but I have no information on that.

If you are breeding zinnias, growing them indoors has some good advantages. It lets you make progress much faster, because you get more generations per year. And it turns out that cross pollinating zinnias indoors is particularly easy and effective. You no longer need to worry about the bees stealing your pollen or applying unwanted pollen. Since your indoor zinnias are portable, you can move the pollen donor zinnias next to the female zinnias for your own convenience.

Adequate light for the zinnias is a requirement. You might succeed in starting a few seedlings early on a sunny window sill, but that won't work for actually growing zinnias indoors. That doesn't provide enough light. Even if the window sill were very sunny or there is a sun room or greenhouse available, there simply aren't enough hours of sunlight in the Winter to meet the "full sun" requirements of zinnias.

So you have to supply some light. I use T8 4-foot fluorescent lights in inexpensive shoplight fixtures. I got most of mine from Home Depot, and paid about $8 per 2-bulb fixture. I think that prices have since gone up significantly, because inflation continues. I think that inexpensive shoplights are still cost effective. I put the shoplights as close together as I can, and get four shoplights over each 2 foot by 4 foot shelf. That gives 8 fluorescent tubes per shelf. I have overdriven some of my shoplights for more light output. I try to adjust the hanging chains to keep the bulbs about 3 inches above the zinnia plants. Occasionally I forget and a rapidly growing zinnias gets a little "scorched" by contacting a bulb. The shoplights are on a timer, set to turn the lights on and off for a day length of 16 to 17 hours. The shoplights and T8 bulbs are one of the necessary expenses, but I use the economy priced cool white T8 bulbs. They cost less in boxes of 10 bulbs. I don't think the special plant spectrum bulbs are worth the extra cost. I try to keep my bulb cost to about $3 per 4-foot T8 bulb.

You also need pots, growing medium, and trays for the pots. I use Premier Pro-Mix BX as my "sterile" growing medium. I don't use soil indoors, because that can cause problems. The Pro-Mix contains a very limited amount of nutrients, just adequate for two or three weeks of seedling growth. Because the sterile growing medium doesn't contain the soil bacteria necessary to break urea down into available nitrate and ammonium ions, I use urea-free nutrient formulas, like Better-Gro's soluble nutrients for orchids.

Because you aren't growing in soil indoors, you probably have to add soluble calcium in your nutrients. It might be helpful to get an analysis sheet for your water supply. Most municipal water departments will supply you an analysis sheet on request. Your water might contain usable amounts of calcium, magnesium, and other elements, and then again, it might not. When you are using soil-less growing, you are in effect growing your plants hydroponically, even if you are using a growing mix as a support medium in lieu of the gravel, sand, rock wool, or just plain water that are used in hydroponic gardening. Plants need a lot of calcium, so hydroponic growers almost always add soluble calcium to their water. I purchased some calcium nitrate and I add some of that to the water that I supply to my zinnias.

I will touch on problems with pests, such as aphids, fungus gnats, thrips, and the dreaded spider mites in subsequent messages. You may not have them, but you could, and you have to be prepared, and possibly take preventative steps. One year I lost my entire indoor zinnia garden to thrips, and my very first indoor zinnia garden involved an ongoing war with aphids that I had inadvertently brought indoors from the garden on zinnias that were transplanted from the garden to pots. I used a small vacuum cleaner intended for computer keyboards to suck many of the aphids off of my zinnia plants. Pests that are normally kept in check by natural enemies outdoors can have catastrophic population explosions indoors.

This year, even before a killing frost, starting the 12th of October, I began bringing green seeds indoors and planted them to start a new generation of zinnias, rather than prolong the current generation via indoor cuttings. I took a few pictures yesterday. The first picture shows a zinnia plant in the process of being re-potted. The second picture shows some of my indoor zinnias that are budding. I have a lot of re-potting pending, and it's time to start some cross-pollinating as well.

ZM

Thanks, ZM!

Possible ... but not very practical.

Hi,

I have grown a few crosses between mutants and gotten some different results indoors. I saved seeds from a selected few and will plant them outdoors when the weather allows in a few weeks. Instead of ordinary petals, they have small tubular petal-flowers. One of my hybridizing goals is new zinnia flower forms that you couldn't get from any commercial seed packet. These indoor specimens, and others not pictured here, meet that goal.

ZM

Zen-Man, these look wonderful, well done on your part.