STARTING OUR 2012 FALL/WINTER VEGGIE GARDENS

Yep DE is the diatomaceous earth. I love trying new seed growing media so this will be a first. I'm a little disappointed in the company as they havent called me back yet.

Jan

What's the benefit ?

Jan ~ the diatomaceous earth I have is so fine I can't imagine using it for seed starting. I use two different grades of DE, garden and food grade. I use it for insect control. Please do keep us updated on this project.

Linda ~ I start the seedlings outdoors in yogurt or sour cream containers with drain holes drilled in them. They sit in the same conditions that they will grow in when planted, full sun. I do raise the containers off the ground to prevent bugs or fire ants or other four legged varmints from plundering in them.

I can understand starting spring seedlings in a warmer environment but in summer, seeds/seedlings have no issues with heat as long as they are kept moist. It seems there would be a certain amount of conditioning to move seedlings outdoors from air conditioning to these blessed' 100 degree temps. That is a step I chose to avoid. JMO.... Kristi

1st photo some of the seedlings
2nd photo some of the four legged varmints

I've never started a fall crop before, because I always over-fill my beds and hate to pull anything.

But this year, spring and early summer were very cold, and I was very busy, so my "sprin g crops" didn't go in until very rceently. Days were still cool until the Bok Choy emerged, then we got "warm" weather, like days in the 70s and no rain.

I've never had Bopk Choy be fussy before, but thsi year many different varieties all got sulky and stopped growing shortly after the seedling leaves emerged. Too warm? Soil not rich enough?

Anyway, I'm trying to decide whther to start some "spring" Bok Choy very very late in trays to replace the stalled "spring" crop ... or wait another few weeks and call it a Fall crop. That makes more sense!

P.S. If anyone wants some Bok Choy seeds or other Asian greens for postage, I went crazy buying 2-gram packets, and now have a whole library of Bok Choys, Choy Sums, plus Tatsoi, Mizuna, Komatsuna and a partirdige in a pear tree.




Bok Choy - Pak Choy - White Stem Brassica rapa Chinesis Group
12-14" - 35 days - Taiwan Bok Choy "Round Leaf San Tong" OP (Tainong)
8-10" - 45 days - "Tall" - (Tainong)
18" - - - 50 days - Pak Choi "Joi Choi" F1 Hybrid (Hazzards)
?" - 45 days - - - Pak Choi (Hazzards P6510)
6" - - - 45 day - Medium size (Kitazawa #298)
10-14" - 50 days - Standard size (Kitazawa #056)


Bok Choy - Pak Choy - Green Stem, mostly small, Brassica rapa Chinesis Group
40-45 days - "Ching Chang" Baby Bok Choy Tainong #5001
35-40 days - Mei Qing Choi Baby F1 (Sakata / Tainong)
40 days - Shanghai Pak Choi "San Fan" F1 Hybrid (Kitazawa #299) heat tolerant but early bolting (?)
40 days - bigger - Standard, heat tolerant, (Kitazawa #059)
"Dong Zhi" F1 Hybrid , cold tolerant, (Tainong)


Flowering Bok Choy "Yu Choy Sum" Brassica rapa Chinesis Group or B. rapa var parachinensis
all from Tainong Seeds
80 Day Yu Choy - slowest bolting
40 day Yu Choy (For Yu Choy or Yu Choy Sum - stems or budding flowers)
55 day Yu Choy Sum - F1 Hybrid, big stems
65 day Yu Choy Sum - F1 Hybrid, Canton, cold trolerant, latre season


Gai Lan (Chinese Kale/Brocolli) Brassica oleracea (Alboglabra Group)
50 day - Gai Lan 'Te You' (Kitazawa #293)
50-65 days - Dark Green Gai Lan - for spring (Tainong)
60-65 days - Late Season Gai Lan - slow bolting for cool season (Tainong)


Etc:
45-65 days Broccolo Spigariello Italian Heirloom leaf broccoli, very cold-hardy, B. oleracea var. 'Spigariello', (Hazzards)
35-40 days - cut 10-12" - Leaf Mustard / Small Gaichoy (Tainong Seeds) Big leafy vegetable
Tatsoi low rosettes (Kitazawa #062) B. rapa Narinosa
40 day - Mizuna, Japanese Mustard, cut & come again, B. rapa nipposinica (Japanese Mustard)
Komatsuna, all season, (Tainong), B. rapa Komatsuna (Japanese Spinach Mustard)
30-40 days - Red Amaranth - hot weather crop - Large, pointed round leaves with red-purple center, (Tainong)

podster

love the four legged critters...LOL Hay the bed they are on, mind sharing where you purchased? I have some similar bed for mine and I can't seem to remember where I purchased mine and I need new ones. My company was up north new england area I believe and had such great prices.... As my fourlegged are in the LARGE variety...LOL

Jan

The bed brand name is Coolaroo. They are well loved and used. I have two beds that are actually for the big dogs but these varmints seem to have co-opted them. lol I've had the beds for awhile but thinking I bought them off of ebay.

Jan ~ do you have feed stores in your area? That is where the DE is sold very cheaply here. Just a thought.

Pod,
You make a very good point about having to transition the seedlings from the A/C to the outdoors. My logic was that by the time I put them out to harden off, the relative temps on the outside would possibly match those of the indoors, but, your way cuts out the guesswork and the necessity.

My main issue would be keeping the seedlings hydrated while they're out in the heat all day.

How do you keep them moist through the daytime, in full sun? I could put the cups in the painted drawers and mulch over them with something like straw or hay. That would help. We have a feedstore nearby. I drilled holes in the two deepest drawers last night. And, I already have a gazillion yogurt cups with holes already drilled in them, too!

Lemme know, cause you're moving me by leaps and bounds into your system.

Thanks a bunch for posting the pics, too. And, I love the four-legged predators!

So, has anyone besides Kristi sowed seeds yet?

Linda

This message was edited Jul 10, 2012 9:14 AM

Ok, Kristi, you've talked me into it!

Gonna put the seedlings into the yogurt cups, and OUTSIDE THEY GO!

My mind is now on constructing a pvc drip irrigation system for the two RBs, and I can't use all the brain cells babysitting seedlings under the lights. So. Going with your method, except for the two deep boxes I'll use to sow onion seeds. They'll still grow outside, until I'm ready to transplant them in Nov-Dec.

Hugs!

Now this is just what I do I sow most of my fall veggies direct to where they will grow ..I start by making a furrow and wetting it several days until it is muddy then I sow the seeds in the mud and cover with several layers of wet newspaper and keep the newspaper wet untill the seeds sprout after all or most all the seeds have sprouted i remove the paper and lightly sprinkle some potting mix over the row and if it is really hot I place the papers back over but as shade using little sticks as tent poles or if I am feeling fancy string a line above the row to hold the papers suspended weight the edges down with rocks or just piles of dirt ..i live in the mountains of Oklahoma so rocks are abundant ..If the weather has cooled off by quite a lot then I do the same except no paper just cover with a light covering of potting mix..

Thank you, Grits!

Feed stores are a ways away, and this place specialises in DE, plus it is a really nice view into town where it sits, so it is only 8 miles away, the feed stores are more to the east and south and about 20+.

Jan

Jan ~ did that company ever get back to you? Sounds like they are convenient to your location.

Rural areas are less suited for convenience but values can be found in unusual places. Kristi

Krist,
you're using the what 12 oz.? 16 oz? yogurt cups. I have 75 of the 6 oz. cups...

These containers say 2 pounds ( 32 oz). They are larger but even with the smaller containers, the roots will be minimal when they start out. Underwatering still won't be an issue.



This message was edited Jul 10, 2012 9:41 PM

Ok. I also have a boat load of square, 4" nursery pots I could use. They're larger than the yogurt cups...

I would use the smaller yogurt cups, Linda. They will work fine. And I say this but we are using different seed starting mix. Does yours dry out very quickly?

I'm using a cockamamie blend of seedling mixes this go round, but i have some vermiculite I could cut in for moisture retention.

grits74571 -

I just love when people are speaking the same language!!!

I might just have to try a few "in the mud!" I've got LOTS of mud right now.

Yesterday I laid out sheets of heavy cardboard inside RB #2 (which isn't quite finished since its still sitting up on its legs until the rain stops and the box dries out so I can screw on the cedar facing, dig the foot holes, set it and level it).

Anyhow, I stood there watering the cardboard (duh...). Then I spread a layer of coffee grinds, a layer of excelsior, then more coffee grinds, and one more layer of excelsior. I dampened each layer (duh...). Then, the killer mosquitoes ran me inside.

I HATE mud...if spies caught me and probed my mind for what would make me sing like a canary, it would be the thought of DIRTY mud!! I think I could take mud made from some virgin dirt, but the thought of cats roaming, and grub worms, in the mud just makes me want to vomit half the time. Which is why I'm serious considering working harder to resurface the muddy areas so I can go outside in the rain, in peace...

I'm sorry. I digressed....

Didn't get to the seedlings, and I'm already burning daylight on my fall crop! Shoot! But, I had a carfull of excelsior and coffee grinds, so that took priority over pulling out the yogurt cups and seedling mix...

"There's always tomorrow!!" (words from a gardener who's run out of daylight and energy. Not to be confused with infamous words from a lass intent on keeping the family farm at all costs, as she curses the setting sun from a hill...)

gymgirl, don't know if you know this childhood song, the worm crawl in the worms crawl out, they play pennuckle in your snote....LOLOLOL, sorry I'm not a big fan of all the bugs eithers. Yes I got a hold of the guy at the company and I also told him that he needed to answer his emails and that if he didn't have time to he should note it on the sight that it will be a long wait for a reply or just take it down. He just laugh...Oh well I tried..... He has a shipment due intoday and he "suppose" to call me when he gets it ready. We are planning for a morning pick up so we can eat breakfast at the hardees there...LOL

Jan

The haunting song is called "The Worms Crawl In" by Schoolyard Blues. The lyrics are as follows:

"The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out,
The worms play pinochle with your snout
The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out
Into your stomach, and out your mouth
They eat your intestines, they scramble your heart
Now you fell like you're falling apart
This is how it is to die
You end up looking like apple pie!
Did you ever see a hearse go by,
And think you could be the next to die?
They put you in a little box,
Cover you up with dirt and rocks
They take you to the family plot
And there you stay, to stink and rot.
For you they make a flower wreath
And chuck you in a hole so deep.
But maybe you're not really gone,
You can hear the mourning song.
You yank the rope to ring the bell
You call for God and you curse hell"

It's raining again today. But, no matter, all is well...

I soaked some Ky Wonder Bean seeds I harvested from my spring crop, and, wouldn't yah know it, they SPROUTED!!! So, a la Kristi, I grabbed my trusty yogurt cups and sank two seeds into each one. By the time the rain stops next week, I can lift the whole plug and set it down into a couple pallet beds at the base of the re-purposed window cornices, which have become lean-to bean trellises.

Once the bean canopy covers the top, I can plant lettuce and spinach underneath, and shade them from the sun. As the beans die back with the chill, the lettuce and spinach should be ready to take off.

This message was edited Jul 13, 2012 11:56 AM

THIS IS MY SEED SOWING WEEKEND! YAY?????????????

Kristi,
Pray for me!

Linda

Lol, Linda, you crack me up. I take so many leads from your seed starting..I have no doubt you'll do fine!
But, then again a good prayer and advice from Kristi, isn't bad either :0)

Hope to get seeds started today. Spider webs are on my seed starting stuff, stored outside. Just need to munster up some courage and clean it all first.

Cocoa,
Girl, I knew this seed-sowing weekend was coming, so about a month and a half ago on a bright cool day, I bit the bullet and spent half of a Saturday morning in the yard washing seed trays, all the pots, and the seed-starting stuff. It wasn't so hot out, and I thought, "you can do it now, while the weather is cool, or you can do it in the flames of Hell." So, that was my impetus.

I am soooooooooooooo glad I did.

Since you're "following" me, here's the solution I use to wash/sterilize everything in. It makes the chore very pleasant. Make sure you're in a ventilated area. Wouldn't want you to swoon!

I fill a large Rubbermaid tub with hot water (put the gumbo pot on in advance). I've used a small mop sink in the past, but, use whatever you have
►Add about 1 cup bleach
►1/2 - 3/4 cup Lemon Ajax
►1 cup of Mouthwash (I use cheap, Minty Blue stuff from the $ store - don't need name brand)

The solution smells so fresh, you wanna keep on washing! Rinse well, and let your stuff air dry.

That's it!

When I used the mop sink, I just added about 1/2 cup bleach and a couple squirts of Ajax, and a couple splashes of the mouthwash (which does the same thing as it does for your mouth, besides lending the fragrance...). So, just judge on the parts for whatever vessel you're using. Don't go too, too sudsy/bleachy, or you'll have to rinse longer.

Hugs!

Thanks, Linda! That's sort of program here, I keep it all outside and use the pressure hose first and blast the spiders to other side of the yard, lol! I usually don't have bleach on hand, but substitute anything that calls for bleach with vinegar. I hope that's enough to kill plant pathogens, but honestly I don't know. Haven't had any bacterial seed starting problems, yet, knock on wood :0)

LOL, if I used a pressure hose, I'd blast EVERYTHING I was trying to wash to the other side of the yard!!!

HOW BOUT the one with the verse:
They'll wrap you up in bloody sheets
and bury you about six feet deep.
chorus: the worms crawl in the worms crawl out. and continuations etc.

Kevin,
Where are you? Haven't had a progress update in a few. What's going on with your commercial effort?

Linda

thanks gymgirl, I had forgotten most of it and boy I sure messed up my typing on the words.... I would go back and edit but the heck withit....LOL

Jan

That song has all kinds of lyrics since it was once part of a very old ballad, and has since become Halloween or blues music. THE old ballad first verse ; To you' they've lied
you have used your pistols
and you have tried
They'll wrap you up in bloody sheets
and they'll bury you bout six feet deep; then the chorus' original ballad about a western outlaw;? Only I don't know who either.?

Please don't hurt the garden spiders. They eat many of the bugs that eat our veggies.

No need to worry, Honeybee. I'm not an indiscriminate bug killer. Normally I don't leave my seed trays outside either. But when I do they attract black widows, which I usually leave alone as well. They don't bother me, I don't bother them. There are times that their nests are in too dangerous of a location and not worth the risk. Blasting them off with a hose gives them a much better chance at surviving them bringing them into my home where they will be squished.

I've only ever seen one female black window spider and thought how beautiful she was. Then I asked my hubby to take her deep into the woods!

I get the orb weavers, brown widow or brown recluse your choice, eastern tarantula,jumping spiders, regular garden spider. Interesting group I don't mess around with,some of them I have to keep a watchful eye, for they are as dangerous as any. Then there are these grey fellows or gals,with a darker grey hour glass on the underside of the abdomen, they are about the size of a silver dollar.
Every few years past they have been everywhere. I don't mind having the spiders I just don't want to walk into any of them while they are hanging around!

Here's a website that explains how to identify a brown recluse spider:

http://www.ascendedhealth.com/brown-recluse-spider/

Linda,

Still working on the commercial deal, just didn't think it was to go on this thread. All of it is setting up for next spring, just going to do a little fall planting to check out the broccoli, Brussels sprouts, & cauliflower, and a couple winter squash. Once I'm back from the Florida trip to my Mom's, then I'll really start gearing up for the fall stuff. Have already pulled the zuke & most of the cukes out, just have to pull trellises and clean up that end of the raised bed.

Once I do that I'll cover that end with weed cloth & cover with pine bark mulch for the containers to sit on. Then in the spring it'll be ready to go for cukes. That big raised bed will be strictly cucumbers next year. A quick question: About how tall does the Arcadia Broccoli grow? Will order seed from Johnny's before I leave, so they might be here when I return.

Looking at your lists in the post, you've got onion seed from Sustainable Seed, I thought you were using Dixondale? I think I may go ahead and get slips from them...

UPDATE: One of the 8 HCR seeds I put in 3" peat cups & just had sitting on the bench next to the other containers has FINALLY sprouted with all this rain. It's been sitting there almost a month. It hasn't even shucked the seed coat yet, so I'm not holding much hope, we'll see what happens.

Later,

Kevin

Hey Kevin,
I was asking about your current fall/winter garden progress. I'll follow your commercial progress over on the other thread.

My Arcadia Broccoli grew in 6.5 gallon, free-draining buckets, and stood approximately 3.0-3.5 ft. when I ripped them.

Dixondale won't ship me onion transplants before December, so I'm gonna try starting my own for transplanting. If I succeed, I'll have my own transplants before by December. If ail, I'll know soon enough to place an order . y very first successful onions from Dixondale were planted on January 8th and I harvested onions that were between tennis ball and baseball size .

Here's the link to the New Big Dwarf discussion.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1205579/



This message was edited Jul 14, 2012 10:31 PM

This message was edited Jul 14, 2012 11:06 PM

Was happening?