After Germination

I've never seen a BES vine before. What a pretty thing to have creeping around. The salvia is nice, too. I had a red one last year that reseeded and was pretty much in bloom the whole season. I'm kind of new to flowers and last year, I tried a whole bunch of new things, annuals and perennials. The funny part was that I meticulously planned out where everything was to go as if everything I sowed was going to germinate - needless to say, fractions of what I thought I'd have actually appeared... The salvia did well. The bunnies ate all the poppies. Got no germination on the perennials, though, and I concluded that I just couldn't start perennials from seed - now, with winter sowing, I'm thinking that maybe it isn't the case. I already bought all my seeds for this year, so I'll just be WSing annuals, but next year, I'll go back to some of those failed perennials!

speedie: My goodness, thanks for the compliments!! You are too kind.

I have a really hard time simply pulling something out and not finding a home for it somewhere else. Verbena is pretty special in the garden also. It blooms all summer long and will slowly spread--but not take over. If it's the Homestead Verbena, it is a gentle rambler as well and will eventually tuck under the feet of shrubs and taller plants. I have a pretty good patch of it and intend to use it in other areas. The color of H. V. goes with about everything also: pink, apricot, bright red orange, white, yellow.

margap: Man oh Man, I think you're missing the boat not doing perennials. To me, Winter Sowing perennials is the Ultimate way to get lots of perennials CHEAP! Annuals are cheap to buy out of the big box store, but Perennials-they cost anywhere from $3.50 to $12.00 or even more. A six pack of annuals is less than $2.00.

Plus, it takes awhile for seeds to germinate-a week to a month. Then, you have to wait until the little seedlings get big enough to plant into the garden. By then, the weather can be "really" warm-even hot and the little seedlings will need lots of TLC with lots of watering and even maybe shading the little guys from the hot sun. This has been my experience.

Sooo, I buy most of my annuals locally unless it's something that will cost $3.50 a pot which is what Heleotrope will cost. We've talked about BES being expensive to buy locally and it's an Annual for peat sakes!! It won't be back next year! I also buy annuals that I can't find locally. Tall snapdragons have been difficult to find as of late. So, I WS them.

I WS perennials because they are expensive, and they will come back several years. I WS them, pot them up to individual pots, and water them all summer. Then, in the fall when it starts to cool down a little bit and the fall rains begin, I plant the perennials out into the garden, and they do their own thing to get established before the cold weather sets in.

Lastly, and this is a general comment. Winter Sowing allows you to "control your environment" much more than direct sowing into the garden. This enables you to much more success with your seeds.

Please consider planting one or two perennials along with your annuals. You will be greatly rewarded.

Okay, I will climb down off of my soap box now. I simply want to encourage you to seriously think about trying a few perennials again. If you have a couple in mind, ask on this forum if they easy or difficult to germinate.

Here's a couple pics of my WS from last year--almost all of these plants are perennials. And maybe I can find a pic of my Homestead Verbena that I am going to spread around in my other gardens.

Well, I couldn't get to the little square to post pictures after I hit preview so I will post them here:

Pic 1: Rose Elle, Homestead Verbena, Iris, & Allium.

Pics 2, 3. 4.& 5 shows the progression over the summer. The last pic shows the plants by fall.

I put a sprinkler with a gentle spray on my seedlings after they get some size (4 leaves) and set them on a timer.

Those pictures are encouraging, Birder. I'll think about it and come up with a few perennials. I tried platycodons last year indoors and got nothing and I know I read somewhere on DG that somebody was successful with them. I am still going to WS snapdragons because out of a couple of trays seeded last year indoors, I ended up with only about 5. Somebody has since told me to leave them in a cold spot (I was putting them on a heating mat to germinate like all the rest of my seeds)...

I do snaps indoors every year on a cool windowsill, and they germinate really well. I had no luck with Platycodons until I started using the Deno method (wet paper towel in a baggy, I'll find the link to the website if you're interested), that really worked for me. But I would think that both would WS reliably. The Platys might take a while, the plants are late to come out of dormancy in the garden so probably wouldn't germinate until it gets warmer.

I have platycodons. I have many seedlings come up all around the area where they are located. I could try to send you some for postage. Some have said they don't transplant well. But, I moved mine because it wasn't doing well where I had it originally. It took off like gangbusters and produces lots of babies. I would think one could start it from seed because it re-seeds readily for me. I also think it would grow from small plants. It's just so prolific for me I can't imagine it being a difficult plant. They are about 40 inches tall. Gorgeous blue. This isn't a very good pic. but it gives you an idea how tall they are.

I'm here to back-up Birder in her encouragement to you, Margap... oh yes, please do give a couple perennials a try again this year.. winter sowing, that is.

When I first started winter sowing, about 5 years ago now, I sowed mostly perennials (Hollyhocks, Alaska Shasta Daisies, Echinacea Purpura, Green-Eyed Susans.. and a few others that I just don't remember now), and a few annuals (Bachelor Buttons, Blue Flax); I had about 98% success rate.. that was the year with MASSIVE snows in this area. I did only get 1 hollyhock, sadly.. but I digress.. so many perennials do really really well being winter sown, it's darn-near a crime to **not** do it. It is THE most cost-effective way to give you long-lived joy and colour in your garden(s). And what the heck, if you're gonna be winter sowing anyhow... why not?

My Alaska Shastas come back heavier and fuller and more numerous year after year.. and considering their location, that's a very good thing. Sometimes I give them a little "helping hand" by smooshing their dried seed-heads around other areas of that bed and spreading the seeds a bit more to where I want them... it seems to work.

The verbena I have... I got at work (at a year-end sale, 75% off); they are in the "big bed) at the front of the house on one side, and you're right, they 'gently ramble' around EVERYTHING without taking over! They get all around the feet of the Laurel and Jerusalem cherries and Agastaches... oh, and the Platycodons too! But they are never agressive or thuggish, and I LOVE that about them. I just have this one spot where this one plant just doesn't seem to really like it there, it doesn't get nearly as lush and full as the rest of the area (it's been over 2 years now)... so really, I think it's time for a change in that one spot. I guess I'm just a bit more merciless that way... maybe working at a nursery/garden center helps too. I'll pull that baby out and get those BES seeds, then I'll get a few Salvias and I'll be all set! =)

I'll give them a try from seed first, Birder, and then if that doesn't work, maybe you could send some for next year. Funny, I didn't picture them that tall, even though the packet must have said as much. They look nice. Pfg, I don't know about the Deno method, but when I'm having a hard time germinating something, I usually try paper towels before I give up. I dampen the towel, put the seeds on it, fold it over and put it in a ziplock. Then I put it on a heating mat, but raised, like on those little pizza thingies, in a tray with a plastic cover on. I've had success with a lot of reluctant seeds that way, though not all of them. I had some verbena last year - they are gentle and don't stomp on their neighbors. Speedie, will they come back on their own, do you think? I know they're supposed to be an annual, but I just left them alone to drop their seeds.

The Verbena I have are the Homestead Purple, like birder mentioned earlier, and I'm not sure it would be hardy in your zone. Which ones did you have last year? If it's the Homestead Purple, depending on microclimates, it might behave like a perennial, hard to tell. But these Homesteads, not only are they gentlemanly, they are really rugged; I walk on mine all the time (accidentally of course), then apologize profusely, and they always accept my apologies and shproing right back. And the bees just love them, and I LOVE bees, so it's a win-win situation there. =)

Margap, that is pretty much what Norman Deno says to do. Somewhere around here are links to his books on germination, very detailed reports on many thousands of plants. They are out of print but available to be downloaded on line. Another great source is Tom Clothier, who gives directions for Deno's paper towel trick and has another huge database of germination details.

So far I have germinated: Salvia Azurea, Salvia x Turkestiana, Alchemilla Mollis, Campanula White Clips, Penstemon palmerii, South African Foxglove, Platycodons Perlmutter, Hakone White (double) Astra Blue and Astra Pink, both dwarves, Dianthus Loveliness and D Sooty.

I start them all Deno's method, then put them in seed starting mix under a dome until they come up. No more difficult than annuals...

Oh, I can't remember which verbena it was, not Homestead, though. I ended up throwing all my leftover seeds away from last year because the basement got really damp and I think that was why I had so many germination probs in the veg garden. It was bizarre - I'd do two rows of something - beans, peas, kale, turnips, whatever, and only one row would germinate or I'd get one consistent row and the other would be really spotty. Usually, I keep lists of all the seeds I buy, the variety and where I got them, but I can't find last year's flower list and I don't have the packets anymore. Pfg, do you keep them warm on the paper towels or just damp? I will look up Deno. You did a lot that way. I just used it as my last resort method.

The ones that need stratification go in the frig, most others I keep warm. I finally got a thermostat for my heat pad this year, have it set at 72.

I get a lot of info here:

http://tomclothier.hort.net/

Every year I seem to be able to absorb a little more. Although usually on the whole I do pretty well, there are always at least a couple of disappointments, so every year I try again until I get it right

Hi Pfg and Speediebean,
Pfg, Thanks for the link to: http://tomclothier.hort.net/!!
We as gardeners or ,"Growee," addicts are always in need of more good information.
Years ago we planted seeds when we could work the ground and didn't plant those
seeds that didn't, "come up," for us. We only grew things that would give us a crop
during the season available.
The information you provided in the link answers many questions and allows me to
grow many different things.

I am interested in your, "handles." Pfg, must signify something about gardening.
I can think of a few words to put to the initials.
Speediebean, allows me to conger up many visions of an avid gardener.
My handle, Lonejack, comes from a bald-faced mountain I grew up looking at on
our ranch in Idaho. It was the lead mountain of a small chain in the Rockies.
As you can see, I have been transplanted to Western Washington, where the growing
is easier. Here, all I need to do is stick it in the ground and it will most likely grow.

I'm glad you found Clothier helpful. I use his database all the time when I'm deciding when and how to start seeds. Another great site is

http://theseedsite.co.uk

Their database, as well as germination info, includes pictures of seeds and seedlings, which can also be very useful.

My 'handle' is not creative at all, just my initials.

Happy Gardening!

Pam

Heh heh, funny, but my "Speediebean" handle is quite old and has absolutely nothing to do with gardening at all. Once upon a time, DH and I were heavily "into" NASCAR racing. One year while shopping, I found "beanie" car toys, and the tag on them read "speediebeanie" (remember Beanie Babies?).. , so I "borrowed" the moniker 'cause I liked it so much. ;)

One day I'll have a house with the space to be able to sow indoors (and the money for lighting, should that need arise), but as it is now, I'll just enjoy reading the links that you all provide (thank you very much), and store the info for later. =)