Starting FALL GARDEN 2011 in Zone 8

Drthor, I threw down some lettuce seed in a flat (about 5" deep flat) and have kept it moist. I think I'm seeing germination this morning. Spinach I had given up on is starting to come up as well. Maybe that inch of rain we got the other morning cooled the soil temp some.

LiseP,

Right on time! I was gonna ask you today about starting spinach. I bought a small Sterilite container to sow spinach seeds in, rather closely, so I can thin with taking some up for baby spinach salads, and letting the rest grow on to larger sizes.

What variety are you growing, and did you sow the spinach seeds on September 8th?

Here's the clear plastic Sterilite container I plan to use for sowing the spinach seeds. I think it's just the right size for a literal salad bowl!



This message was edited Sep 21, 2011 11:25 AM

hrp50
thanks for your information on Okra.
I agree with you. Removing the bottom leaves will put all the energy on pods creations.
Maybe NHG said to cut the top to create more branches ... could it be possible that they said to trim the top of the plant while it is small, ex. 10-12"?
In this way it could make sense to cut the top to incourage more branching and to have more pods ... I dunno

drthor

Black eye peas, oh my I've never seen them before (other than in a can, lol). Where do you get your seeds for them, I bet they are the best tasting things on earth.... (we just had some last night)

Jan

LiseP
I also had problem in the past germinating SPINACH.
I think they like cooler weather.
But last year, I stick the spinach bag in the fridge (not freezer) for 2 weeks and after I seed them directly outdoor.
They were the best spinach in the world.

Friday is perfect day to seed LEAF vegetable, so I will direct seed outdoor some lettuce and indoor (my favorite) Kohlrabi.

My FAVA BEANS are slowly growing indoor. Yummy ...

I bought my black eye pea seeds from www.rareseeds.com
Mine were the vining varieties.
http://rareseeds.com/vegetablesa-c/cowpeas/california-blackeye-pea.html
http://rareseeds.com/vegetablesa-c/cowpeas/monkey-tail-cowpea.html

It is the first year I grew them. I will steam them tonight.
It seems now that the weather has cool down they are finally producing.

thank you so much, I'm going to go look for some, I don't know why I never through about how they grow...

Jan

Linda,
The spinach I'm using is Bloomsdale. I have tried Tyee and it's always a disaster, it just hates me. I do better with Bloomsdale. I've got mine in a few cinder block holes this year, direct seeded outdoors.

Your container looks good. I grew some great spinach last year in an almost identical container. Are you drilling a few holes for drainage? My container had been repurposed for garden due to a crack -- instant drainage.

The only reason I'm not using it this year is that the outdoor climate and sun's rays made it brittle and when my husband picked it up to move it last month, it crumbled into a dozen pieces.

LiseP,
You are exactly right, again, on ALL points.

I was mixing my potting mix up in that container, and hit the bottom with the shovel once too many, so now it's got instant drainage.

And, from experience, I know the plastic will be brittle and crack by the time the season is over. Next time, I'll be using RUBBERMaid!!!

I don't have any Bloomsdale spinach seeds. I believe I've got seeds for Viroflay, and Space hybrid...

I thought about starting them in some large peat pellets and transplanting into that box, but it's more hassle than is necessary. I'll just sow pretty heavily and thin from there.

Cindy_GA
It is 92 F degrees right now ... ouch ...
I will still try to direct seed lettuce friday or thursday after 4pm (following Moon Planting Calendar by M. Thun)
... bu I dunno if it will germinate ...

Lettuce germination temperature:
Min. 35 F
Opt. 75 F
Max 85 F

Linda, forgot to say, yes I think I planted the spinach on 9/8 -- I should add that not all of it came up, but with the four raccoons that came through a-tramplin', I'm sure some got pushed a few inches down into the ground and never will come up.

Drthor, thanks for the idea about putting the spinach seed in the fridge.

I think I'll be happy-er when I get my main raised bed built. It's taking me forever to get these seedlings planted into containers!

So far, I've planted out 4 Arcadia and 2 Di Ciccio Broccoli, and I have one NOID planted...whas' up with that???? And, it's a good thing the mustards and collards are forgiving, cause the leaves on them are so totally ratty right now, it's pitiful...I'm just snapping and eating that evidence on the spot...

The press will be on this weekend to get the other 43 seedlings planted in buckets.

Hugs!

My BROCCOLI WALTHAM 29 seedlings growing well.
I think they are growing faster now that the temperature is a little cooler.
I have thinned each pot to 2 seedlings and later I will keep the best one.

Those are the FAVA BEANS I seeded 10 days ago.
It took at least 6 days to germinate ... but now they are growing so fast ... like 1" a day ...
Still no room outside ... they will have to grow inside untill I will remove the eggplants (which now are starting to produce again)

I am serious, they grew 1" from last night !

Drthor, it looks like they're in 4" pots. Do you plant them in those to begin with, then thin? Or do you start in seedling trays and pot up to those pots.

LiseP,
I always start on 4" pots and after I thin them down.
Using the Root Organics medium and 4" pots and there is no problem. I think the plants grow so well without transplanting shock.
I have tried the small cells ... but to me it is such a waste of time and I grew more plants that I needed or have room for.
4" works great for me.

In this picture you can see my Kales.

I have started the seeds the same day (see begining of thread), but I transplanted out the Kales on the right one week before the Kales on the left !!
Look at the difference !

Even under 100F the one transplanted just a week earlier are way bigger.

Almost same things with Broccoli.
The plants on the back I have started them from seeds indoor two weeks begore the plants in the front.
They were transplanted out just one week before the others.
Look at the difference.

I guess tha plants can take the 100 F weather with no problem

Anybody got any remedies for Leaf Miners? I've got a friend whose whole crop seems to be overtaken with them, even after she diligently picked off as many infested leaves as possible...

Thanks!

Seems to be a bad year for them, my beans have a lot of them, and when the plant is new, there are only so many leaves you can remove. I don't know of any home remedies, unfortunately.

But -- Spinosad spray. There's one called "Conserve," I think (I remember Calalily mentioning that one), and I just bought one by Greenlight called Lawn and Garden Spray Spinosad. According to the brochure, Spinosad is classified as "organic" by the USDA National Organic Board. It's not cheap -- ran me $15 at Home Depot, but you only use 1 tsp at a time in a spray bottle, so it should last for years.

I can't tell you about its effectiveness, since I just bought it and started using it a couple of days ago. I do know you're supposed to use it in the evening, because it is toxic to bees for 3 hours after applying.

Im having problems with leafminers too. Isnt it late it in the year for them?

Evidently not....they've wiped out a whole flat of the seedlings I started and sent home with a fellow gardener.

Thats too bad. I just mean I dont remember them this late in the year anyother year. Maybe its one more thing that this crazy weather is affecting.

I think the whole eco-system is off with this drought...

Anyway, I ordered 1.5 yards of pine bark fines (PBFs) to be delivered early IN THE MORNING, for the bucket garden. For various reasons, I've decided to make all of them free-draining, and not the self-watering eBuckets with built-in reservoirs:

►From my past experience with the brassicas planted in eBuckets, in Tapla's 3:1:1 container mix (customized for me from his 5:1:1 recipe), they seemed to prefer being top-watered, even though they could draw from the water reservoir. I think they are just LAZY, as well as being Water HOGS, and Hungry, Hungry HIPPOS!
►It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper for me to fill all the buckets with a LOT of PBFs, a little Miracle Grow Potting Mix, and a little coarse Perlite, than filling them all with 100% Miracle Grow Potting Mix. At $12/bag for 2.0 cf, it would have cost me $$. And, it'll all end up in the raised bed(s) anyway, after the buckets are done...

Let the planting begin!

Linda

The FAVA BEANS I have started on Sept. 11th are growing like missiles.
They took 6 days to germinate, but now they are growing too fast !! Like 2" a day !!

I need to plant them out in about a month in the place of the eggplants (which they are still producing)
OMG ! They will grow like trees!
I love the Root Organics medium !!

The second group of Broccoli seedling I planted on the 11th are also doing great.
The room is much cooler and I truly believe that they are growing much faster than my first crop I seed at the beginning of August.
But no complains. The August broccolis are already outside and doing great.

My Parsley is finally germinating.

Am I a "champion" on throwing seeds all together?

What do you think?

yes i am a champio.
This is my Swiss Chard, growing well

I wonder if anyone else here has tried growing fall-sown green onions as a perennial crop. I had been told by several long-time Georgia and Florida gardeners that green onions don't survive the summer heat in the deep South, but I also know they are grown as perennials in other countries (including some hot, humid areas of SE Asia). I wanted to find out why those growers succeeded in keeping "permanent" onion beds while others failed.

Most shops selling green onion or "scallion" seeds or plants don't distinguish between the two most common species. Allium cepa is the common bulb onion, but when picked early many varieties can be used as scallions. If they are planted at the wrong time of year for their "day"-type, they can fail to produce large bulbs and will remain scallions for quite a while. Long-day A. cepa onions grown out-of-season do make fine green onions, but if they are left in the ground over the summer they eventually die out. The other species, Allium fistulosum or "Welsh onion", seems to be truly non-bulb-forming. I've tried growing several varieties of A. fistulosum in the fall and was surprised to find they thrived right through the extreme summer heat here in Gainesville, Florida. They did send up bloom stalks during the summer, most of which I broke off to avoid wasting energy on seed production, but they didn't form bulbs and they have continued to thrive.

I currently have two varieties of A. fistulosum (Heshiko and Ishikura Improved) that were planted last fall (on approximately a 6" spacing) in an old-style Earth box that sits in full sun on a concrete patio area. The plants have crowded each other to the point that there is no media showing between them. Weeds are not a problem - there is no place for them to grow. I use a dull table knife to separate and pull up individual stalks for cooking. The seed were obtained from Kitazawa Seed, who (unlike most seed companies) bother to identify some of their "Bunching Onions" as Allium fistulosum varieties and actually have a number of different fistulosums to choose from. Both Heshinko and Ishikura are described as "Single Stalk" types, but both have produced 6 or more stalks from each original plant. I'm planning to add Shimonita Negi this season.

-Rich

Just catching up on this thread. So exciting to see such success drthor! I am just about to direct sow kale, kale vate strain, chinese kale and swiss chard. I know I am slow ............
Gymgirl, what are your buckets looking like now? Do you drill drainage holes in your buckets when using the PBF?

Rjodgen ~ I grow a winter multiplier onion in 8a. I recently started a new bed but they are normally in a perennial bed. Left in ground year around. The greens can be eaten throughout the winter and the onions form clumps of bulbs that can be dug in spring. Around May or June the tops die down and the bed lies dormant through the summer heat. I have two different types (unknown cultivars) but one is reputed to be an heirloom called a gumbo (?) onion. These are permanent beds but not evergreen onions. The Egyptian walking onion does stay green year around. I just received a start of a third one ~ Litois onion.

My garlic and the Egyptian walking onion also stays in ground throughout the year in an established bed. Sorry I'm not much help on the cultivars.




This message was edited Sep 25, 2011 10:04 AM

rjogden,
I bought my fava beans here:
http://www.gourmetseed.com/c=LcT4939D0C3Ag6EWOtzXcTzD6/category/gourmet_seed.vegetable_seed.bean___fava/

Great seed company. Watch out the seed packages are always huge.
I have planted:
Fava Bean Extra Precoce Violetto (you can see in the picture, because its trunk is purple)
Fava Bean Delle Cascine

Gymgirl, is that 5:1:1 translated then as PBF:MG:Perlite?

Drthor, nice to see your parsley germinating. I planted some and nothing has happened. I'm tempted to plant something else in its place, but maybe it will still come up. What do you think? It's been sitting there since 9/8, I think.

Also, your Swiss chard is so close together -- do you thin a great deal? Keep it close to keep the leaves small? Transplant to other locations? Also, do you find Swiss Chard to grow best in full sun or will it do okay with a little shade?

Rich and podster, I confess - between walking, bunching, bulbing, multiplier, short day and long day, I find onions pretty darned confusing, lol. Last year I bought no-name onion sets at Home Depot and threw them in the ground. LOL. That's all I know to do. I got some tasty pingpong balls as a result, and that was fun. But I'd love to someday have a bed of green onions and a bed of decent-sized onions. Maybe with your help, I'll get there. (So should I be planting or ordering something right now?)

I have been watering the Parsley seeds every morning and night.
I still have half to come up too.
Normally it takes 14 days ... so be patience.
Did you burry your seeds?
I just "THROW AND GROW" them ... like lettuce. Those seeds need LIGHT to germinate.

Yes, the SWISS CHARD is also close together.
I normally wait that the leaves are a little bit larger, so I can snip them and use them in salads. I will do the same with parsley.
I don't pull ... I SNIP with the scissors.
My Swiss Chard is in half shade ... but I have grown it on full summer heat sun !!! yes ... pretty hardy !

I don't have room for Onions ...

GARLIC: be ready to plant cloves in the ground MONDAY after 1pm !!!! 4" apart and 3 times the size of the bulb depth ... oh boy .. my English is very good !
Tuesday is the NEW MOON !

Sorry, guys. Cellphone keeps dying out when I'm connected to the net (BB).

I'll do some quickie bullets:
Only have 7 buckets planted. Over 70 seedlings waiting in trays. Been hardening off this week, and had 100 degree temps today...

Decided to go with free-draining buckets and top water. I noticed the brassicas responded better to top watering, even when I first planted in eBuckets with reservoirs. They are LAZY, water HOGS, and hungry HIPPOS!!

Had 1.5 yards of pine bark fines delivered yesterday, for the planting medium. I'm repurposing last year's mix, and Tapla's advice was a formula mix of 3 parts of fresh PBFs, 1 part old PBFs, 1 part Perlite. I'm adding 1c 10-10-10 fertilizer, 1c Dolomite lime, 1/2c Epsom Salts per bucket.

Large (1") holes were drilled in the bottoms and 5/8" holes around the sides, 1/4" up from the bottom. Lined bottom with wire screen to keep PBFs from falling out.

So far, so good. The seedlings have perked up.

ONIONS
Got my first harvest of full-size onions this past June-July. Planted a sampler pak of onion SETS from Dixondale Farms on January 8th, and counted SIX months til harvest! Have learned a ton about onions! My new pak is being sent end of October for immediate plantout, 3 months earlier this time. Longer growing time = larger onions. And, they can handle the cold! More about onions later.

HEAT
I'm thinking of starting some more seedlings, since this heat is not cooperating. If I seed this week, they'll be ready for plant out in mid November. Still lots of fall & moderate winter temps ahead to bring in a good crop. Have hoop house ready for protection.

That's my weekend contribution, friends.

Gotta check my cell phone. It's beyond annoying to have it fall dead in the middle of these posts.

Linda

This message was edited Sep 25, 2011 8:01 PM

This message was edited Jul 30, 2012 12:10 PM