Spoken/Written Language Forums

Just a thought. My first language is English but I speak some Spanish. If my primary language were, say, French and I'm only communicating in English on DG, it would probably be nice to "kick-back" and chat in the French Gardening forum. We have regional forums and I notice many DG members from other language countries. The United Nations languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages_of_the_United_Nations show: Arabic, Chinese (Mandarin), English, French, Russian, and Spanish. With a forum moderator in that language, the coverage of world population gardeners significantly increases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers .

So, English at 328 million, add Mandarin 845 million, Spanish 390 million, Arabic 206 million, French 68 million and Russian 144 million. Basically, the appeal significantly increases and percentage of gardeners drawn to DG goes from 328 million coverage to 1981 million by adding a language specific forum. Based on percentage of paid subscribers to members, multiply that by language coverage of paid-only subscription for these language specific paid-only forums significantly increases revenue generation and world-wide participation. The big picture is much brighter when we all garden together.

I've seen some blogs about gardening that originate in Mexico as well as some from Central and even South American sites. Those folks have tropical gardens that make me cross-eyed with envy. It would be great if we could communicate on a basic level and let pictures express the ideas. Some of the plant nurserys and roadside plant markets in Latin America are the stuff of North American dreams. And I'll bet some of the French gardens are pretty amazing too. Great Idea Growin!

I'm a bit confused...are you proposing forums to converse in languages other than English?

Si. Exactemente.

We would have to have moderators who are fluent in the language AND fully equipped to apply all the site rules (it really goes beyond forum moderation when you set out to attract members who do not speak English at all - they have to be prepared to deal with conflicts, harassing behavior, self-promotion issues, etc.) Not saying we can't do it - just saying there's a lot to consider and have in place.

I thought of that before posting originally. By establishing these forums as subscriber only, it would mostly cater to our existing paid membership to start with. With so many wonderful and trusted subscribers who are fluent in both their first language and English, finding a moderator in Spanish and French wouldn't be too difficult. As with any project, including DG itself, starting small as a test-run would be a good idea. Both Spanish and French are common languages in North America (Mexico & Quebec) and should be relatively easy to implement, both technically and logistically just by following the KISS method.

Considering current economic conditions and people are pinching their pennies in North America, international diversification and strategic planning are essential for effective business growth, and I believe IB is a business. I would also take a very close look at Chinese (Mandarin) as this is the fastest growing internet market with significant potential for increased subscriber signups.

Just my 2 cents.

ps. There are many members and subscribers that are participating already with basic English. As I originally stated, it'd probably be nice to converse in their first language, sorta like we do in our regional forums ie. talk about the weather, "look at this pic of my new garden planting", etc. or ask for a basic translation, "what do you call it when you lay a stem on the ground, cover it with dirt for propagation - what's that in english?".

I think you'd all be surprised by the participation.

OK! Here is a test...WHAT LANGUAGE AM i SPEAKING????

Omitting diacritical marks--which are NOT available on most computers---Here is your test.

Es runaju vairakas valodas. Es esmu dzimusi Latvija--un emigreju Amerika 1951. gada.

Man nav nekadas problemas ar Anglu valodu. Es to pilnigi saprotu. Tomer--ir valodas ko daudz cilveki nekad nav dzirdejusi.
Ka--piemeram--Latviesu valodu. Daudz cilveki are nezina kur Latvija ir. Skolas te nemaca pasaules geografiju.

Man butu tadas pasas problemas ja kads man prasitu kur visadas zemes ir Afrika.

How do you feel about this???? Do you have any clue what this language is???
What if I demanded DG to add this to their web site???

Gita

Spanish?

Vulcan? :-D

Definitely not Spanish. Latvian?

I think it's Latvian also.

And I also think it would be impossible to find moderators fluent in all the different languages.

That's not what I was suggesting at all. Slightly taking it too far, I'd say. I didn't mention anything about Latvian as it is not one of the more common languages other than English as indicated above. I mean, if you can't see past your own language, you don't see the rest of the gardens and gardeners out there. I find it would be considerate and respectful to allow a Spanish or French as a first language subscriber to converse in their first language in the same way you all converse in your regional forums.

I wonder how many French & Spanish speakers there are on DG? It was only a suggestion but it seems cultural sensitivity is not a part of DG.

Yes, It is Latvian...Of course--I mentioned the name of my country several times--
kind of a give-away....no?

growin--This was all just in fun. Nothing serious implied....

Vulcan??????????? I think the wabbit died long ago already......:o)

Gita

I for one hope that if there are other language forums here, that there will be some kind of built in translator. I am noticing on Facebook, that I have so many "friends" from other countries and have no clue what they are saying and most I am sure have no clue what I am saying. Though I do not let that stop me from talking to them all! LOL And of course we have the universal language of hot plant pictures! And let me tell you, other countries like Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, etc grow plants that are out of this world.

Kell--

You would be surprised how many people from other countries speak English and do it well.
At least the younger generations do.

It is the people in America that do not feel the need to speak any other languages. Not even try!
They expect that everyone else that comes here should speak English. And that everyone else where they go
on vacations should do the same.

That is one reason the American tourist is not looked upon as too favorable.
They expect the "mountain" to come to them--no matter where they are.

IF anyone goes to, say, Greece or France, or the Slovak countries--the American tourist is at a loss.
The saving grace is the most people in other countries speak SOME English.

I would think that IF someone from here were to go to another country--they should, at least, make an effort to learn a bit
of their language. Even if it is the "tourist dictionary at hand". "Where is the Hotel?"...."How much does this cost"?

WHY are we so pompous here?????? So righteous?

Just a rhetorical question. Food for thought. PLEASE do not jump down my throat!!!!

I came here in 1951 and did not speak a word of English. Was put in the 9th grade 3 days later.
Went to High School the next year. It was an experience in learning--and an experience of the acceptance of
my classmates of my limitations. Some helped--some laughed and snickered at my errors.
I learned--I survived--and I speak English more correctly than most of the people in this country.

LEARNING a language gives you an upper hand--as you LEARN the correct grammar and vocabulary.
Growing up speaking the native language of the Country you live in--and you speak it the way all the locals do.
NOT always correctly.

I ain't got nottin to complain about! I come here--and I learns to speek da language--and dere is notting wrong wit it.
Their is Folks worst off than me. Their not so smart.....Dem Folks just do the best they know how.

PLEASE do not take this as an insult to any nationality. Again--this was just an example.....
We hear this every day--everywhere......

Gita

Kell, sometimes it helps to make friends with locals who garden or share similar interests. We have a large Korean community and they are very happy to translate. Many of them are great gardeners. We don't have Hmong who are probably the greatest vegetable growers but we do have Vietnamese. we also have an extended community which speaks Tagalog. All of these folks have made great efforts to learn the American version of English. There have been many recent groups who are struggling with the language. Probably the fastest growing group at the moment is Arabic. One thing in common, they don't complain or demand that thier native language be accommodated. Most of our Mexican population is the same way, but there is a very strident group among them that is still fighting the Mexican War. The squeaking wheel gets the grease, but I would not like to see a language given prevalence over others for that reason.

Just read gitagals post. I agree that Americans do project a superior attitude. On the other hand, I would think that Americans who travel a lot would learn some of the languages of the places to which they travel. In the past, Americans in general have been pretty much homebound. When in Rome do as the Romans do. American serivemen who did extended tours in a country usually learned enough of the language to get by. Down side I have not used Japanese or German for 50 years, and I have forgotten more than I ever knew.

This message was edited Jul 29, 2011 6:12 PM

Gee, Gitagal and Farmerdill, you should come live in California. I do not think Americans here feel superior, righteous or pompous. We do not even expect other Californians to speak English. Many do not. In fact if you only speak English, you are at a big disadvantage. Some of our public schools have kids speaking over 20 different languages. 40% of the people here do not speak English at home. I can go into stores and have no one speak English not even the employees, even their signs are not in English. It is hard to get a service job if you are not bi-lingual at the very least. Better if you can speak 3 or 4 languages.

I had a neighbor who had lived in California for 15 years when he moved next door. His wife spoke not 1 word of English and he spoke just enough to get by. We used to have a summer ritual where we would meet by the property line and chat as the sun went down. We both only caught maybe 1/3 of what each other said but we smiled a lot and thoroughly enjoyed our daily engagement. He was a gardener too. They felt no need to learn English for they could live a full life here within their own community. We would have loved a translator! LOL. Though the gentleman did try to teach me his language. I was hopeless. He was so nice. He was my only neighbor I ever had that told me he loved all my plants coming over the fence into his yard. He actually asked me not to trim them! A true joy! His replacement has a fit if 1 leaf hangs over our communal fence. Sadly, he does speak English and I understand every word he says to me. LOL

Thanks for the suggestion Farmerdill, but I do not think many people want to come stay by my computer to translate phrases from all the countries I have "friends" in on Facebook. I check in on Facebook several times a day and also the night so it would be a full time job pretty much. I can always use Google translator but that too is not really feasible as it would eat up all my FB time.

It would just be so cool and sure make a free exchange of ideas easier if FB automatically translated the pages to whatever language you set as your preference.

PS We have many Hmong American Farmers south of where I live. I believe it was the famed chef Alice Waters in Berkeley a few miles from me, who started an outreach to them years ago now and told them she would support their farming efforts if they used organic methods. And they did. There are Hmong farmers at the Farmers' Markets here too.

Here is a great page translator. I am not sure where it even came from, I guess Google Chrome supplies it automatically to different language web pages. I was tracking down a couple alpine plants this AM and found myself on a Dutch site. With a click the whole page was translated for me and I did not have to go anywhere or do anything other than 1 click. See the top of the pic..

Soon after I was on a page written in Chinese and there on top of the page was the translate option. I just love it!

*sigh*

Here I am, thinking that where I live, people who don't fluently speak English carry themselves with the pompous attitude that "I should learn THEIR language so I can communicate with them".

I like the idea of the page translator (for those who don't/can't learn the other languages) - and then you can choose to use it or not.

Then - you don't need separate forums. Everyone could participate on every forum that they want to belong to.

I am not technologically oriented, so I have no idea how much it would cost to implement, but...it could be subscribed for (at least till it pays its way or is paid off - where's the amortization charts?). As noted above, there are a heckuva a lot of gardeners in just a very few other big countries. It wouldn't take many pennies per person for that to add up.

Or just a few rich Swiss bankers...apologies in advance to all Helvetians offended.

Just think of the wonderful people we could meet and have met here on DG. ☺ I for one thought this was a really neat idea. I immediately thought of Dinu and others I have learned so much from. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could sit down and talk to other gardeners? If he hadn't known English, I'd have missed out on a blessing.

While I think people should learn the primary language of their host country it's often easier said then done. Learning English is a real bear because of the way we play with the language. I need a translator for some teenage talk! If people in one country had real conections with people in other nations it could add incentive to learn their language too. More than Plants could grow and bloom if the common people of countries could talk to each other.

I went to Peru on a medical trip in 1994. I fell totally in love with the Jungle and its People and have been back over 25 times since!I even adopted my 2 youngest sons there) I HAD to learn Spanish...I had to know more about what I saw and felt. My life has become far richer just with my very basic ability to speak with others. I think Daves Gardens could open some fertile ground if we reached out to others.

Folks there is an international forum http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/talkintl/all/, why don't some of you that are fluent in a non- English language try a couple of postings to see you can drum up some interest.

Farmerdill,

That link did not open. This was the message that came up:

Communities > Forums > Internationalizing DG

Database error: Invalid SQL: select begin_poster, subject, replies, views, tid, unix_timestamp(end_date), end_date, priority from t_latest where forumname = 'talkintl' and begin_date < now() order by priority, end_date DESC limit ,,60
MySQL Error: 1064 (You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ',60' at line 1)
Session halted.

Gita

I had the same problem. There's a comma at the end of the web address. Once the page is open with the error message, go to the url line and remove the comma. It will open then.


This message was edited Aug 5, 2011 7:47 AM

Here's the link, comma removed and active:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/talkintl/all/