Blue Picotee X Minibar Rose

I just wanted to add about my collage of odd blooms ... all those different blooms were on a single vine. Which is what really amazed me! But not totally ...

The reason I wonder about the fertilizer is because I've gotten other really odd blooms on many other vines. I've had color patterns and flower shapes do some really weird things. The only common denominator is the fertilizer. And it usually starts happening during the middle or end of the vine's life cycle. I can't believe that I have been THAT lucky to get so many odd mutant blooms. Maybe on one or two vines, but not as many different ones as I've grown. I've been wondering about this for a couple of years now. But everyone has said no, that it is not likely. What else would cause something like that? I can't believe that I've hit some kind of jackpot with genetically crazy genes from a number of my vines. I just don't believe I've been that lucky. I think something is causing it. My mutant blooms were always completely sterile, too.

It sounds to me like Messenger was discontinued for a reason. Perhaps it was for the very reason that X discovered during her grow-out a few years ago.

X - Were all the blooms on the original vine affected by Messenger? And if so, did you get seeds from any of those blooms? If not, did you only get seeds from unexposed blooms? Were those exposed to Messenger partially or completely sterile?

A - I would guess that your Pecan trees are doing well because of a combo of good irrigation and I know you ... good fertilizer! I know you take really good care of your plants! :-)

This message was edited May 9, 2011 1:26 PM

It could be the miracle grow bloom booster type that is causing some of the mutants, remember that year I got reverse tubes on ALL the morning glory vines, it didn't matter where I purchased them from, wally world or rare types from ebay, they all had reverse tubes and I couldn't figure it out then either.

The only bloom affected were the ones present at the time of spraying .. things began to normalize after that.

Oh, okay, so I guess our trees are safe, it takes something like 5 to 7 years to get fruit from newly planted trees, so, we have a way's to go yet.

When I said that I also mean immature buds that were present at the time of spraying. Buds that formed after the ones that had been sprayed matured and bloomed were normal. The degree of weirdness was directly related to how mature the bud was when it was sprayed. That is why I'm sure it was the Messenger that did that.

X,
I think I've got buds on a couple of yours, I'll take photos of the leaves on both types. Most likely tomorrow is when I'll photograph them, recharging batteries now.

That's great! Can't wait to see them.

A - I forgot about all those reverse tubes you got! That's what I am talking about ... too many weird blooms not to think something else is going on beside genetics!

X - If you mentioned this somewhere already, excuse me ... did you get any seeds from the mutant blooms?

Is the vine that A is growing, one from your cross?

No seeds - they either had no anthers or no pistils or if they had them they were immature or pollen not viable, all attempts at hand pollinating them failed. I tried, especially when this guy showed up. It was a real jaw dropper.

A has some F2's I believe.

This message was edited May 9, 2011 9:13 PM

Oooh! That is a beaut!!!!

Don't ya just hate that? You get some outstanding bloom and darn if the flower isn't sterile! Grrrr ... Happens to me all the time! (sigh)

X, it's gorgeous

I counted heads and this one is definitely an F2. I find it amazing that two flowers blooming at the same time on the same plant could be so utterly different!!!

Exciting to say the least. Sure makes my day, :-)

X - I had numerous flowers blooming at the same time. Some the usual and others very mutant! What you got is very cool!

Here's a few of my mutant blooms from last year.

Here's a better picture of the Purple Speckled bloom that was almost solid purple with the white border with purple speckles. I've never seen that happen before! I really think something more than genetics is causing such weird blooms! If I knew for sure, I'd be doing it more often to get more mutants! I just wish I could get seeds from those mutant blooms! But alas, they are always either partially or completely sterile. Such is how it is with mutations... I would sure love to have a whole vine of mutant blooms! :-)

This message was edited May 10, 2011 6:21 PM

X, I had a pack of each one of the F2s and one of the F3s. I only grew the F2s a couple of years ago, so now they are labeled F3s and I also am growing a couple more of the seeds I had left from the F2s which are labeled F2s, but, to confuse you more, I'm also growing the F3s for the first time. You will notice some differences in the leaves and the plants on all of them.


These are the F3s, one plant on the right looks alot like the Mini Bar Rose with the variegation and the long strap stem, the middle one looks like a Platycodon type leaf/plant very dark green and curled a little, and the third one looks like a mix of both, then there is a very small seedling in the center of all of them with flat leaves.

This photo is the F2 from the seeds that were left in the package from two years ago. I didn't want the seeds to get too old.

This one cup has the growout from the F2's which is now F3s and I do have some photos of the first F2s on my flicker, if I can figure out how to copy them and post them here, I will.

The variegation is interesting .. it's not really the type of variegation that the MBR has which is more multicolored.

A - That is interesting what you are getting on those leaves!

The thing I happen to like the most about MBR is the beautiful variegation on the leaves. I am growing a vine right now and it doesn't seem to have a lot of variegation on the leaves yet...

X - Is that photo one of the parent plants?

Yes, the actual parent plant. It will be interesting to see if the flower form is the MBR or the DBP.

that is a beautiful bloom, X...

Thanks .. I'm growing it again this year for fresh seeds .. I love the predominantly white variegation.

Those MBR are outstanding! I love the nicely pronounced white border and that foliage is fabulous!!!! Has any of your F1, F2, or F3 shown as much variegation in the leaves?

I'm seeing variegation on some of my F2's but its not quite as distinct as the MBR to my eyes.

Here is today's F2 - this is on the same plant that produced the shredded one along with the pure DBP. Todays looks like pure DBP with hints of doubling - the modified anthers. I'd really like to see some of the F3's try to double but I have a feeling that doubling might be recessive.

I'm crossing my fingers that I'll get another shredded one and be able to back cross with the MBR.

With variations you've been getting, I think a double is a possibility! Fingers crossed that you get one! That would really be wonderful! Keep those photos coming! :-)

X, that last one (on May 12, 11:44 AM) pink flowered is outstanding... Very NICE!

Thanks!

We've had a significant cool down here and nothing is blooming or growing .. been in the low 50's at night!

Nice surprise today .. 2 F2s!

This first one has the split petals and coloring of a normal DBP mutant. I don't see anything MBR expressed in this one.

And the second F2 is DBP with no MBR present.

Now an F3! Has the form of the MBR with the color a mixture of both DBP & MBR but with a BLUE pictoee!!

beautiful and interesting at the same time, X..

Thanks .. I'm loving this myself!

X- I love your F3 with The blue picotee. Spectacular!

Here is my bloom from F1,(Akatsuki no Umi x Early call pink) x Tie-dye pink, with the white picotee from dad, Akatsuki no Umi x Early call pink with a hint of streaking from tie-dye pink. Mainly the same flower phenotype as dad, It converted to pink instead of blue. This may have happened during crossing- over in meiosis to get a phenotype from grandma, Early call pink.

mm thats purty too

Thanks .. just wish they were stable!

X - Awesome the blooms you are getting! I really like the split petals and coloring of a normal DBP mutant!!! That is quite lovely! Actually, they ALL are! That's interesting that the leaf-shape is staying somewhat consistent, though it looks like the texture of the leaves is somewhat different on some of the vines! Great cross experiment/growout and also wonderful documentation & photos of them all!

Thanks! Only 1 plant of the 4 F2's has the total variegation of leaves like the MBR. The rest are more like hints .. the variegation gene is only partially turned on I think.

I've put together another picture of the all the F2's & F3's to date.

Here is a link for a 4 meg picture of the one below.

http://www.xeramtheum.com/DBPXMBR__F2_F3_5-22-11.jpg

It didn't really dawn on me until I was putting this together, but the top two F3's with the blue picoteed edge look like the plant might be stable!