Your Opinion and adviceplease.

I dug a flower bed two days ago because I thought the plants were not doing well because of to much sun. I had the Africa Sumac trimmed away from another tree so that was my reasoning for to much sun.

The bed had been spot composted for two years. When I started digging, no worms. Then I discovered the problem. The sumac roots had invaded the bed and the dirt was very dry.
I am actually amazed anything lived in this bed because the Sumac is 15 feet away and over 40 feet tall. What is frustrating, is every spring I hire 2 laborer just to dig about 5 feet from all my beds to make sure the trees roots are not in the beds.

Anyway, there were thousands of Sumac leaves on the ground from the wind storm earlier in the week. I dug half the soil out of the bed, filled it will leaves and then replaced the rest of the soil. Of course, this was after a 4 hour ordeal of getting the roots out.

But I will be 69 in 28 days, so I guess 4 hours is not to bad.

Gita gave me an idea and tomorrow I am going to go dig some worms and move them. I think I will move some compost with them.

Corey, I have beautiful tomatoes but something is eating them. We have no squirrels so I suspect a roof rat. I have 4 pepper plants that have just sat there for two months. They finally started to grow.

I was in the garden today from 8am to 3pm. But it is our monsoon weather so cloudy and mid 90s. I did not get finished but I had to stop. I WAS DONE.....

One of my tomato bushes about two weeks ago.

Gita,

>> My eggplants are doing nothing...Any advice you can give me?

Eggplants I don't know, but would GUESS they are heavy feeders. Pure guesses:
- higher-phosphate fertilizer?
- top-dress with 1-3" of compost but NOT too close to stems or leaves?
- either more water or less water or less-frequent, deeper watering?

But some crops get all leafy and un-productive if you fertilize at the wrong time. Better to ask someone who knows eggplants! There is a Vegetable Gardening forum.

Did you have an unusually cold spring or summer? Insects?

You may not want to hear this: for some crops, "full sun" is a need, not just desirable. If they don't like partial shade, there may be no solution.

Sometimes a seed pkt will mention in passing "prefers well-drained soil" when it really is a crucial requirement.

In my yard, I blamed "plants doing nothing" on cold weather, not enough compost, and not enoguh mineral fertility. And not enoguh soil life in general, especially the microbes that make root hairs more effective: mycorhyzia (spelling approximate).

I do delight in the technical aspects of gardening, but I've noticed that those who are most successsfull often are NOT the "scientific" gardeners. They just "do it right" and get good results and don't need to go crazy trying different things.

I sometimes wonder if many of them learned "what works" for their climate and soil from other gardeners who alreaqdy knew. Learning from reading goes awfully slow, because the improtant secrets are often hidden in plain sight: "moist but not damp" ... light "enough" ... "plenty" of compost.

And it seems there is so MUCH written, I tend to lose sight of what is most important, until I fail to do it, AND later realize what the problem was, AND do it right next time, and THEN realize that it really was the most important thing.

My most recent realization is that many bits of advice about the "best" time to do something should be worded as the "critically necessary" time to do something. When I get busy, and some garden chore moves to the end of the list and doesn't get done for a month, the plants may NOT be patient and understanding about it! Some of their needs may be non-negotiable.

Corey

Sharon,

I have heard that birds will peck at tomatoes. I liked the idea of the "motion activated" water sprayer that senses nearby animals or birds and gives a 3-second spray of wtaer to chase them away.

That, plus a webcam, might tell us what is eating our plants or digging up our bulbs and seedlings!

In my neghborhood, the cats are fat and lazy. they don't chase squirrels, but they DO use freshly-turned soil as a catbox. YUCK!


Corey

Corey--

My Eggplants are growing in the East exposure (full sun until 3PM) bed
where i used to grow my Tomatoes.
The soil is quite organic and definitely well-draining. Lots of amendments over the years.

I have never grown Eggplant before--and it is NOT important that
I have any success with it. It is my first go at this. Just for fun!
I only have 2--one the deep purple one--and the other one--the white one.
I will NOT hesitate for one minute to yank them out if I need that space for anything else.

Geez! You can buy Eggplants for under a dollar--why do I need to grow any?
Same for Zucchini--but I just am experimenting this year.
Fresh Tomatoes now--that is worth it!

What IS growing so well in this same East bed are my Pickling Cukes....
The plants are going berserk! I have picked 2 so far--but they grow so fast--
I need to check every day. These cost too much $$$ to buy.

Also tried a few Strawberries in this bed. Another first for me.

Here's a picture of my Cukes....

Gita, don't give up on those eggplants. They really need some warm feet, warm hands, and take a while to get their roots going. I'd feed them the same as you feed peppers and tomatoes. ( I think you'd have great results using Espoma's Tomato Tone for all those crops I just mentioned, if you want to use store-bought fertilizer/plant food.)

Hang in there. I'm gonna look forward to your posting about "how you fixed eggplant for supper tonight" at some point! *grin

Shoe

Shoe--

I love fried Eggplant.....Just dip it in seasoned flour--and then egg--and fry them.
I could eat them all on the spot.....

I usually do not feed my Tomatoes. Should I?
We have some Tomato Fertilizers at work (I work at a HD).

I have read that feeding Tomatoes is not wise--get too much foliage and not enough fruit.
Is that true?

Gita

If I understand what I just found, eggplants may share some soil-borne diseases with tomatoes, and may thrive better you rotate them.

"tomato, pepper, eggplant, and potato can be treated as a single group in a rotation."

I think that suggests growing tomatoes AND eggplant in the smae bed during Year One, but then growing only other kinds of plants in that bed for a year or two to let the disease spores die out.

I think i'll go ask on the vegetable forum. I know many people obsess abotu tomato diseases. Me, I know nothing ... but when I tried to get away with growing Bok Choy in the same bed 2-3 years in a row, Year Three really stunk.

Corey

"I have read that feeding Tomatoes is not wise--get too much foliage and not enough fruit.
Is that true? "

What you may have read is that feeding tomatoes a high nitrogen fertilizer is not wise. Too much N creates mainly foliage and very little flowering. I'd recommend feeding them something, same for peppers and eggplant. Most soils do not contain enough plant food to feed plants. The Tomato Tone I recommended above is a lower N fert and also gives the proper ratio of phosphorus and potassium as well as offers bacteria/micro-organisms to your soil. The soil life is important to turn potential fertilizer/plant food into a usable form that plants can take up. Always best to feed the soil, not the plant for good extended plant life and soil life.

Corey, ""tomato, pepper, eggplant, and potato can be treated as a single group in a rotation." All those plants are in the same Family which is why they are grouped together. As for me, if there are no signs of foliage diseases/problems rotation is not a necessity.

Shoe (off to shell cowpeas)

Well we had 25 minutes of rain today. I worked in the garden from 6 to 12 noon. The humidity got to me. We usually have very little humidity.

Well two more large tomatoes were eaten last night. What ever it is, it eats the majority of the tomato. Birds usually only take a bite. We live in a golf course community and the guards say they see them come in to the neighborhood every night from the golf course walking on top of the fences.

My peppers are finally putting on new leaves. They are Italian peppers and Cajun sweet and Cajun spice. Small, narrow peppers. I do the Italian every year. Very sweet. This is the first year for the Cajun. Sounded interesting.

I have two raided beds. One on each side of the house. First year we were here I tried tomatoes on both sides. One side gets good sun and the other side got some sun but also shade in early afternoon. Both bed produced great looking plants but the bed with the shade got zero tomatoes.

I plant the tomatoes in the same bed every year but I have the soil completely rehabbed each year. I used to do it myself but now I have a laborer do it. That is why I say my tomatoes are $64 a pound.

Gita I fertilize my tomatoes with super phosphate, cottonseed meal, Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) and soil sulfur when I plant. I layer it in the hole and the hole is about 16 inches deep. I layer the mix, soil, mix, soil until I get to the top. Each time the roots hit the mix, it takes off. The recipe is from the local county extension but the layering was my idea. It took me close to 10 years to finally learn just the basics of gardening. Raised beds, compost and mulch. That is the secret in the hot desert.

Have a great day tomorrow. DH has a doctor's appointment so I will not be gardening. Sharon

Cross post.

Sharon---
SOOO? Do tomatoes then like an acid environment?
I have everything you named--except Soil Sulphur.
Of course--my Tomatoes are now 5'-6' tall. A bit late to fertilize. yes? No?

Shoe---
I will check into the fertilizers....There is one sold at HD--which is a big,
red container that looks like a tomato. It says on the container that it even
has 4% of Calcium in it. Too many Tomatoes do not get enough calcium.

It has been eons that I sat up this late!
Started watching "The Color Purple" and wanted to finish. It ended at 11:30PM.

Off tomorrow--maybe I will sleep in. Gita

Gita, I think that is Miracle Grow tomato Food.

Sulfur helps a plant take up nutrients. It also helps break down the soil. Used in our "soil", blow sand, all the time. Our soil when you start out is a pale tan.

I am on the Board of the HOA, treasurer, and the liaison with the landscapers. We had many trees in the streetscape in bad shape. I ordered dispursul. Saw it somewhere here on DG. Out of 72 sick trees, we had to replace 8.

Funny story from this event. We order the sulfur and it was being applied. I went out to check and they were applying it around the base of the tree. NOT. I do not speak Spanish so I had to call the office so someone could communicate with them. Sharon.

PS: The Southwest is a total different planet from the rest of the USA.

They like a slightly acidic soil. As for fertilizing, I steadily feed mine with organic slow-release fertilizers & soil amendments mixed with compost (see http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1169891/ for my list). Toms are heavy feeders. Make sure they've got enough calcium available to them too, or you risk blossom-end rot.

Here's my go-to guide on tomatoes, courtesy of Ohio State: http://v.gd/UbCqvf

As for spent coffee grounds, I use buckets and buckets of them! Lots of 'em go into my compost raw materials to bring the worms, who really do a great job of breaking stuff down. I have also taken a 5 gallon bucketful of spent wet grounds and scattered them over my strawberry bed before a rain (or sometimes on top of the bed when it's covered in snow). Their pH is almost neutral; reports of their acidity are wildly overblown. I just use 'em as "wormnip," because I prefer to let the squirmy hired help do most of the work on my garden soil. In my experience, there's no such thing as "too many coffee grounds."

This message was edited Jul 8, 2011 1:17 AM

Ditto on PuddlePirate's "tomatoes like a slightly acidic soil". Although I don't consider them heavy feeders they do tend to like consistent feeding, again "lower nitrogen than P and K".

Gita, you won't want to use sulphur in your area. I think your natural soil is already acidic in your area and your mix that you put together is more'n likely fairly neutral. You could probably use some lime BUT if you get the Tomato Tone it, too, has calcium in it already. I bet HD carries it...red and white bag with a pic of tomatoes on the front.

P-Pirate, I don't dare throw out my coffee ground either, too valuable, eh?

Shoe (off to pick tomatoes, peppers, pull onions for tomorrow's market)

I have no idea what the soil I got delivered had in it.
It was dark--but had NO earthiness aroma to it. None!
I thought it was wayyy too dense to be garden soil.

When I ordered it (over the phone) I asked what was in this soil I was buying--
and all the lady said--"We make our own". She was a bit evasivefor my taste...
I should drive by there and see....It is not too far.

Asked the old man that delivered it--and he said--Yeah! They don't want to tell you...
Then he said it had humus and some mushroom soil in it. I did not believe him
Mushroom soil would definitely have a certain "aroma!"

So far--my Tomatoes are growing very well....I will see...I will see----
Will make a trip to the 7 Eleven for some coffee grinds...

Thank you for all your advice. keep it coming...Not only do I need to know all this--
I need to be informed enough to help customers that ask me at HD.
So far--I have been telling most of them not to fertilize their tomatoes.
You all have changed my mind! And--Shoe--I knoe exatcly the bag you are talking about.
Will pick it up Sunday. Thanks...

One more question----
What is all your opinion on ground egg shells as a source of Calcium?
How about seeweed that washes up from the Gunpowder River?
I have friends that have a home right on the river---could bring a bucket home.
It is NOT from the "sea"--just a pretty big estuary river into the Chesapeake Bay.

Thanks---Gita

Here is a picture of the soil that now fills my raised bed. I added stuff, though.

Egg shells are definitely a good calcium source, but they don't release it very easily if the chunks are large. My egg shells go in my gardening blender along with all my other kitchen scraps, and the slurry goes into my compost bin. I try to use a wide range of raw materials for my bin, since the compost it produces goes to my veggies and berries. My big, cold, mostly untended compost pile is made mostly of shredded paper and grass clippings, plus weeds and any other "iffy" raw materials that I don't trust enough to apply to my edibles. I don't waste my kitchen scraps on that pile, since it supplies lower quality compost for my ornamentals and my lawn.

You can get seaweed? I'm envious. Water plants like seaweed and water hyacinths are an awesome source of trace elements.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=301

http://www.ehow.com/way_5664058_use-water-hyacinth-fertilizer.html

PP--

I know that what i am talking about is not real "seaweed"----It is, most likely,
dead grasses that grow in shallow river waters and then wash out at the "shores".
Slimy and Yuk! Maybe they have some useful properties--I do not know....

The Chesapeake bay has a gadzillion coves and inlets all along it's shores.
Even the famous Baltimore Inner Harbor--the mecca of all tourism here--
is just the end of an inlet of the bay.

I realize that egg shells need to be smithereened before adding to the soil.
I have a blender--can do!
There used to be a product made here in MD called "Chesapeake Blue" which just
about eliminated any Blossom End Rot on Tomatoes.
It was a by-product from the shells of all the millions of tons of crabs people eat in this area.
It was processed and clean and had no odor. And--full of Calcium!

Then--the residents in the area complained about the smell of the processing Plant--
and it was closed down--much to the dismay of all us gardeners and tomato growers here.

We also have a lot of Oyster shells here--maybe someone should look into pulverizing
those??? Same good stuff--NO?

PP--
I have yet to build a real compost bin. So far--all I have been using is the Stupid Earth Machine (SEM)
as my composter. Cannot turn anything over in it! It is cracking! Does not get natural rain on it--
VERY impossible to retreive the "good stuff" from the bottom. Ludicrous!!!
but they still sell it en masse--once a year--and people buy it up. So did I--some years ago!

There is a 3'x4' area I left "undeveloped" at the end of my new raised bed. Find pic above.
My hopes are that I can have someone build me a nice compost bin there.
Of course--it has to be open at the bottom---so I will still be dealing with the tree root problems.
They find ANYWHERE there is good soil--and just grow into that area.

This too shall become a reality--some day soon.....

Here is my current S.E.M. UGGGHHHH!!!! sitting by my shed....

That was a new idea to me about plant diseases - if you don't see evidence of them, don't worry about them. As far as I know, my Bok Choy and GaiLan feeble response this spring was due to cold and poor soil and lsugs, not dieases.

FarmerDill said (over in the Vegetable Gardening Forum) :

Yes, they suffer some of the same soil borne diseases. Verticillium, Early Blight, bacterial wilt, southern blight, Phytophthora blight . Eggplants are less susceptible than tomatoes, but if you know one of these diseases is present, avoid them with both tomatoes and eggplants.

Horseshoe said:

As for me, if there are no signs of foliage diseases/problems rotation is not a necessity.

Corey

Corey--and everyone else---

It seems my garden is 90% free of any vermin and diseases. Oh--I see a few Spider Mites
now and then. Once in a blue moon--my Brugs have gotten the dreaded Cyclamen Mites--
which I have disposed of quickly by spraying.
I once had Mosaic Virus on my Daturas and one of my perennial Hibiscus...
Man!!! That was weird!!! The leaves turned like leather--and all shrunken up---mosaic....
That was hard to deal with. I think I cut back all the affected leaves--and the plant recovered nicely.

Now--on to an actual composting question.
Is it OK to shred and add to the compost computer paper? Financial reports paper?
Bank statements paper? etc....In other words--other than Newspaper?????

I have been sorting through a lot of old documents and statements...
Time to say--"Bye--Bye!"....Need to start shredding! Would this be considered "carbon"---
aka "Brown Stuff" (as vs. "Green Stuff") in Compost talk? Even if the papers are white?
I know that sounds stupid--NO pun intended....

What is your cumulative opinion? Gonna have a few bags-full by the time I am done.
Bless my initiative to start doing this! It has been too hot to go outside--so I am finding
long-put-off-work in the house.....How I KNOW this needs to be done!!!!

Thanks--Gita

I'm sure paper counts as "brown not green". Low nitrogen, high carbon.

I can't say what kinds of paper are OK in a compost pile: I used distrust them all because they have clay and other chemicals added. Newsprint ink used to have a lot of carbon black in it, and someone said that was "bad for you" - but I guess that meant bad for people, not bad for soil organisms.

Now I compost coffee filters, paper towels & napkins. I'm planning to tear the pgaes out of old White Pages phone books, then think about the Yellow Pages. Not glossy paper - but who knows, that might be OK too.

The comments I've read here have seemed to say that many kinds of paper are fine to compost. Several people have said to shred or chop it first, so it doesn;t pack down into an airtight mass.

Corey

cOREY---

Thanks for your thoughts...I am not sure either...
I started shredding all my papers just now.... Will keep them in some larger plastic trash bags
until I hear from more people....

This shredding is just the beginning of the end.....I have so much crap to get rid of!

Happy gardening to you! Gita

Gita, you should feel fine using white paper, no doubt. Many computer papers are already made nowadays from recycled paper/products so it, too, should be safe. The majority of inks these days are soy based so that should not be a concern either.

I have no idea whether "glossy" paper is dis-advantageous; I can't see why it would be but I don't know what it goes through to make it glossy.

"Newsprint ink used to have a lot of carbon black in it, and someone said that was "bad for you" - but I guess that meant bad for people, not bad for soil organisms. "

Corey, newspaper ink used to contain lead and that is why it was frowned upon to use it. Nowadays newspapers use soy ink. I'm glad to say they moved to it but remember reading once they did so because it was cheaper, not because it was safer. Go figger, eh?

shoe

>> newspaper ink used to contain lead

GACK! That is one pollutant I DO worry about. To think that Rome used lead pipes!

>> Nowadays newspapers use soy ink. I'm glad to say they moved to it but remember reading once they did so because it was cheaper, not because it was safer.

Interesting. I hate that smeary stuff! I heard that it was because 'clean air' laws and OSHA prevented them from just blowing solvent fumes at the workers and out the windows, so that the necessary fans and scrubbers made it more expensive than modern inks.

That could be true, Corey.

And I suppose all those solvents probably even gave the workers a buzz, eh? No wonder newspaper journalism became written from a bent perspective! *grin

shoe

What I am shredding right now are all the monthly reports from an Investment Firm
where I have my IRA, and various other measly holdings. The paper seems heavier than
regular computer paper--but not by much.

If I add some of this to my composter, I will wet it down so as to decrease the volume.
Since I cannot turn anything over in this Stupid Earth Machine (S.E.M) --it will just sit on top and get burried
under piles of veggie and fruit trimmings. I eat so much of all that stuff--it's a wonder i am not a rabbit.

Thanks for your feedback, Guys! Gita

edited to add that I now have a 5gal. bucket sitting by all the coffee makers at my
local 7'Elaven. I go and pick it up every other day or so. Put a clean trash bag in it and take the 'stuff" home.
No one there seems to mind.....

This message was edited Jul 28, 2011 8:55 AM

I shred & compost all kinds of paper, junk mail, statements, etc. - whatever I would shred for security reasons. I don't compost glossy stuff but that's really only because I have no need to shred that, & I always have plenty of shredded paper. I bag it & add it to the composter as I need browns.

Thank you, Lisa...That is encouraging....

Just now I put in the composter piles of all the coffee filter papers that I fished out of the Coffee grinds I picked up this week.
I now have a totally full 5gal. bucket myself.
I also have a big bucket-full of wood ashes from my back yard neighbor's fire pit.
Any advice what ashes can best be used for???

I think I will buy a medium Tote to keep the grinds in.
Maybe I should get 2 of them. The other for ashes...

As long as the 7-Eleven Folks don't mind--I will keep my bucket there.
By now I just walk back there, lift out the full bag--replace it with a new one and leave.
They do not have to do anything.....

Not as many people drinking hot coffee right now--with temps near 100*.

Gita

>> And I suppose all those solvents probably even gave the workers a buzz, eh?

What I recall from working at a chemical plant and cleaning up toluene spills is that it made me dopey, stupid, sleepy, sick to my stomach and gave me a headache.

So yeah, a lot like booze.

Corey

Perfect weather for iced coffee though!

gardensox--

Not sure 7-Eleven does iced Coffee......I cannot even imagine drinking cold coffee....

I am not a coffee drinker myself....and the little bit I do--I use "Tasters Choice"--
which is a freeze dried type of coffee. NO grinds from that!!!! Still tastes good!

Now--Iced Wine--that I will partake in. Gita