Your Opinion and adviceplease.

Here is what I d-mailed to Gita

Have you considered container gardening ideas? That's what I would do.

1st You could cover that area with weed block and stone. And then use containers.

Last summer I purchased nice heavy plastic 5 gallon tubs at Dollar Tree. I was thinking of drilling holes in the bottom for drainage, placing small mesh basket (3/$1.00) upside down, cover basket with a few layers of newspaper or cardboard (I can get all the cardboard boxes I want for free) and use Tapala's 5-1-1 planting mixtue.

You can move and rearrange your containers according to conditions.

Use individual size water bottles, cut off bottom, leave cap on and make small pin holes in neck of bottle for water to drain ... insert bottle capped end deeply into planting mixture ... use this method to deeply water plants.

I do not think Dollar Tree still has the 5 gallon tubs that I bought. But what about these?

http://www.dollartree.com/cleaning-storage-hardware/mops-brooms-sponges/rectangular-pails/212c259c259p309870/index.pro

You could decorate the exteriors and spray with a clear acrylic.

MARY

Then, I started the following thread

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1148597/

Here is the rest of my D-mail-----
Hope this multi-copy will come through.

I have an idea for your problem growing area. It is a wee bit off the wall. If you want me to share it with you let me know.

A check to you was sent in Friday's mail.

MARY
Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

Sun, January 9, 2011
08:27 AM
Why not? How off-the-wall is it?

No ideas are weird....I am just gathering them--don't know what I will use...

Thanks, Gita
merrymath
Morrisville, PA
(Zone 6b)

Sun, January 9, 2011
10:03 AM
Have you considered container gardening ideas? That's what I would do.

1st You could cover that area with weed block and stone. And then use containers.

Last summer I purchased nice heavy plastic 5 gallon tubs at Dollar Tree. I was thinking of drilling holes in the bottom for drainage, placing small mesh basket (3/$1.00) upside down, cover basket with a few layers of newspaper or cardboard (I can get all the cardboard boxes I want for free) and use Tapala's 5-1-1 planting mixtue.

You can move and rearrange your containers according to conditions.

Use individual size water bottles, cut off bottom, leave cap on and make small pin holes in neck of bottle for water to drain ... insert bottle capped end deeply into planting mixture ... use this method to deeply water plants.

I do not think Dollar Tree still has the 5 gallon tubs that I bought. But what about these?

http://www.dollartree.com/cleaning-storage-hardware/mops-bro...

You could decorate the exteriors and spray with a clear acrylic.

MARY
Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

Sun, January 9, 2011
01:33 PM
Merry--

That is not so off-the-wall....Some good ideas!

SO? In your scenario I would still build the 16" high walls all
around this bed--do the double weed block--add the stones--
(which I had decided NOT to use if the bed was to be filled
with soil)--and set the containers on top??
Many people use 5gaL. buckets as containers. Black ones
would look the best....but lighter color ones might stay cooler.
Also--I have MANY lg., black pots collected from all the years I have
been working around plants. Some of these are extremely sturdy
like 22" ones that large tropicals come in. Food for thought.....

One negative would be that elevated planters often get quite hot
inside them--and so does the soil and the plant's roots.
Roots under the soil stay cooler and the plants do better...

The positive would be that I would not have to, immediately,
worry about maple rots....nor bunnies chewing off any leaves...

In time--I am sure I would start filling this bed with soil--even if it
iss just from the pots that everything grew in.
ORRRR----I could fill the bed 1/2 way and then dig the containers in.
How's that grab you?

You got my mind going.......I may link this to my initial Thread I
started about all this--on the "soil and composting" thread..
Lets see what others say....

Thank you so much for your ideas....Gita
merrymath
Morrisville, PA
(Zone 6b)

Sun, January 9, 2011
05:09 PM
Would you believe I just thought of some other outside the box (is that better than off the wall?) ideas. Think I will share a bit in the Mid Atlantic thread about them.

And If you use large containers there are things you can do avoid over heating (at least I think there are).

MARY
merrymath
Morrisville, PA
(Zone 6b)

Sun, January 9, 2011
06:46 PM
The one with looney-tune ideas started a new thread

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=8301122

MARY
Gitagal
Baltimore, MD
(Zone 7a)

Sun, January 9, 2011
07:00 PM
Mary--

We must think alike! To me--everything has a second (or third) life--
if only you use your imagination and your resourceful mind.
I see something discarded--and I thinkk WOA! Will share more on your Thread....

Your new Thread should be a lot of fun----

Gita

Gita I may have a better idea than all that work with the soil, weedblock, rocks etc. I became a strawbale gardener just under three years ago because of the forum here on DG but unlike other bale gardeners at the time I surrounded one row of my bales with lumber. After the first year of growing in them I dumped the other row of decomposed hay/straw whatever you use into the enclosed row and by the following spring I had the darkest, richest, most worm laden mess of dirt you ever saw. I haven't looked back since. At the end of each growing season I just toss the used up bales into the "box" row and sow into that the following year. With great success I might add. I had tomatoes up until December this year!! This is a pic from April 27th of '08 when I first started.

Doug

This is a pic from the other end on July 27th. See the difference in fullness of the boxed in row of maters? I don't have any current ones but come spring when it thaws out I'll try and take a couple of the actual "soil" that's left after they decompose more over the winter.

Doug

Gosh postman, I really like that concept!

Gita, it seems super easy and relatively inexpensive.

Here are some helpful links

http://www.carolinacountry.com/cgardens/thismonth/march09guide/Straw3.09.pdf

http://www.4042.com/4042forums/showthread.php?t=12405

MARY

Yes those pails are a great idea!! I am trying to recyle things myself..I am hoping to use an old cooler..I want to take it apart so I can use the shell for the exact reason you want to!!
I use a lot of containers as I am limited to yard space & I hope this year I can build a new small garden to plant just Texas Natives. I like containers for large shrubs/trees & any plants that may be an invasive one.

For large rubbery tubs- try the charity thrift store. The big one I go to had several for a couple bucks each, and having no lid would not matter in planting.
Anybody with an inground or large pool might get chemicals in large, 3-6 gallon, buckets. Chlorine and pH adjuster...There seems no chemical residue after rinsing. I have plenty of fungus and algae growth in those buckets when I use them for rainwater.

Postmandug,
Could you explain your straw bale rotation process a little more, please? I'm a bit confused.

I know you start off with the two rows of straw bales as in the picture. One is enclosed (let's call this the RBB, for Raised Bale Bed), and one is not. Am I correct in that you grow in the RBB while the other straw is sitting and decomposing? Then, at the end of that growing season, you shovel the decomposed bale material into the RBB for growing in the next season?

I love your putting the frame around the bale, effectively creating an inexpensive Raised Bale Bed. This is a true $$$ saver.

I grow in both rows, but after the growing season the unenclosed row is so decomposed I just add it to the enclosed row for the following season.

Doug

Ok, I get it now! So, two more questions.

1. When you grow in the straw, do you first pull a trench down the middle and put in a bit of soil or potting mix to anchor the plants, then just pull the straw back around the roots?

2. When you add the unenclosed, broken down straw to the enclosed row, are you dumping it in under the new bale or on top of the new bale? I'm gonna guess, underneath the new bale, so the new plant roots will grow down into the rich medium...well, then again, putting it on top would make it more available to the new plant, which would have the organic material right there to help it get established.

Ok, which is it? Over or under the new enclosed bale? ^^_^^

Linda

I just dump it in on top. By the time the next planting season rolls around it's usually decomposed even more and down inside the boards. After the bales start the decomposition process (before planting begins) they are usually soft enough to just use a garden trowel or someting similar to make a "crack" in the bale and drop your tomato plant down in it and push it back together. See the Strawbale Gardening forum for detailed instructions.

Doug

How much should a bale of straw cost?

"See the Strawbale Gardening forum for detailed instructions."

True, everything you'll ever want to know over there, and non-stop experimenting, too.

A bale of straw will vary region to region...$2.00 to $7.00 (yikes!). Some folks use hay.

Shoe (who also loves Doug's enclosed/non-enclosed system.)

I just read the whole "test" thread postmandug started. As far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to read!

Thanks, Doug!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/840638/

Made a new convert huh?

Doug

Use hay and the more composted (old) the free-er they are. Also the nitrogen in hay will feed anything you plant. Yes there are a few seeds but hey, how many blow in from the field up wind?

Thought I would bring you all up to date.....

Found a really nice man to take on building my raised bed....
He is such a perfectionist--makes me happy! As I like to do things right as well.

Today was day #2 of his working on it. The walls have been built and the posts cemented in.
These will hold the 2 panels of "Shadowbox Fencing" . They are 6'x8'. the fencing boards
alternate--in and out---in and out----so if you look through the fencing sideways--
you would see daylight. I like that aspect....

After Monday--all that will need to be done id fill it with top soil and amendments.
Called a couple of places.....They are all out of top soil to be delivered--due to the high demand and all
the rain we have been having....
Hope they will get back to business early next week. They said to call back.....I will...

The framed bed is now 16'long x3'x wide and 14" high.
There will be an area approx. 4'x4' at the far right (not part of the elevated bed) that I will have
someone construct a compost bin. That is NOT, at this time, a priority...
The bed is--as my Tomatoes are waiting and growing taller and taller....

Here is a picture as of today. The now completed bed--minus the actual fencing panels...
Posts are in.
The bed itself is 5-4x4's high. Giving the total depth of about 14".

Gita
Gita

Because of the almost daily rain--the soil was easy to dig out and work with.
Thank goodness!!! If it were totally dry--it would be next to impossible....

Before the Topsoil is delivered--I will cover the bottom of the bed with a double layer
of Commercial grade Weed Block--(the gray stuff). Then pile the soil on top of it.

Looking at he size of the finished bed--It will, easily, require 2 cubic yards of soil.
Plus my 4-5 bags of composted, shredded dry leaves....Plus a dug in layer of my
own compost. Don't have too much of it! i can get chicken coop bedding for about
$6 a black trash bag-full and can dig that in as well.....

Still pondering the "mineralization" bit....How about some Builders sand????
Or--the coarser pavers underlayment to do the same????

I work at a HD--and would like to use that which is easily available to me.....

Here is another picture---This is the 4'x4' end of the bed NOT part of the raised bed.
This will be my Composting area. Still have not decided on how to build it.
NOT a priority at this time. The bed is--as my veggies are getting way too big
and need to be planted,,,
Will keep you updated.....
You can also go to the Mid Atlantic Forum and check out the "What's Happening in Your garden"
Thread....We yak a lot over there about what everyone is doing.....
Gita

A view from my BR window at the whole thing......

I can't wait to have the fencing panels put up so I don't have to look at my neighbor's trash any more....

Just because he cannot see it--it seems OK to just pile it on...His big garage shed hides it all....
Then that is ALL I have to look at!!! YUK!

Gita

Nice, Gita! Bet you can just "see" in your head how it will look filled with plants, with the fence panels along the back.

Jill--

What i can MOST see in my head--is NOT having to look at my neighbor's junk--
and trimmings, and "The castle" (for his Grandkids)--and his 3 HUGE trash cans, etc.....
He just throws anything and everything behind his "garage" building.
He doesn't see it---but that is ALL I have to look at every day!
What I worry about is IF the 6' fence will cut off too much of the sunshine I want here???

AH! Just my bed filled with whatever. May not all happen this Summer--kind of a late start--
but next year for sure! This will be my veggie bed. So far--all I have to grow is Tomatos.
May buy some Pepper plants and some Bush Beans....we will see....

Waiting patiently for top-soil to be available from the businesses that deliver it.
Must be the rain----OR---the high demand at this time....None of them have any!
I will need 3cy. delivered. Some of it may be shared with my neighbors....

The man that is building all this lives a good 1/2 drive away. Near Edgewood....
He wants to come when BOTH the soil and the Fencing panels are here....
Gas costs so much--and he has a big p/u Truck.....I understand!

More rain in the forecast! More issues with all this! But--I have waited for this to be
done for a year and a half. At the worst--it may delay my Tomato planting....
They are leggy enough already! At least 16" tall! Gonna be digging a lot of "tranches".....:o)

Stay tuned!!! More pics to come as this progresses.....I am SOOO excited!
Lots of $$$$$$$ spent. But--I hope it is worth it.

Jill--While i have your attention-----Ahem......
*****How are Hellebores propagated? My neighbor wants some cuttings (???)...
I told her I do not know HOW--or WHEN it can be best done....
She does not know much about gardening--so i do not want to go to any extremes to
provide her with what she can buy herself....
This is my OLD Spanish neighbor....NOT the Pakistani one.

Also---tried seeding some of your Tomato "mix" seeds you shared. Not all came up....Old???
I don't care--just wandering which ones did--or which ones did not. AHHHH--The mystery of life!!!

Gita

the tomato mix seeds were collected 2 years ago, August of 2009, so they should be fine. sorry to hear they didn't germinate well! I only managed to save a "mix" that year because Joyanna had just arrived... but I was making "rainbow bruschetta" with all the best tomatoes I'd picked that week, and I was seeding the tomatoes over a strainer so I could catch the juice, and I just couldn't toss out that strainer full of seeds!

If you get the panels before the topsoil, just lean them against the posts for now so that they help block that view. Don't worry too much about the sun... if it turns out not to be enough for veggies, you know you'll find some other lovelies for that nice bed! I think runner beans and cherry tomatoes are both said to do well with less light. Beans and cucumbers you can easily plant from seed to fill any leftover space after you put in your tomatoes. :-)

AHHH! YES!

This bed will be a future adventure!

G.

Wanted to show you all the finished product.....
I hired a man to build it--at $15 an hour.
Materials, soil and labor came close to $700.

Oh, well! Looks very nice....Gita

Beautiful! Few things excite a gardener's heart & mind like a fresh, new bed waiting to be planted. This one's not only going to screen the view of your neighbor's junk, but it'll be fun to cultivate.

I hope you'll post pictures after you fill it.

Anything borne out of such a labor of luv will be well worth the adventure.

I do believe you've given birth!

If you still have a choice, and are thinking of sand for drainage, use the coarsest you can get. Or very fine gravel - like smaller than 1/4" , but 1/16" - 1/8" OK.

I now like pine bark mulch better, because it is coarser and will decompose over the same time scale that I expect to be able to add plenty of compost over. In other words, I hope mixing in pine bark mulch and fines will aid drainage for 2-4 years, buy which time the soil will be 'organic enough" to provide its own structure and drainage.

Corey

Corey--I no longer have a choice....The bed was filled with NOT
the greatest garden soil but I had to order it sight unseen as the man
who built my bed was coming the next AM to schlepp the soil one
wheelbarrow-full at a time from my driveway to the back side of my yard.

The soil was dense and heavy--and had many big clumps in it.
It was dark OK--but had absolutely NO earthy aroma to it.
I was really upset--but it was a done deed. 3 yards delivered--$100.
I would have rather bought it from some better quality places--
but they were out of soil to deliver--or they were too expensive for my taste.

Anyway--so as Dave wheel barrowed the soil--I was in the bed with spade in hand--
trying to break it up as we went.
In went 4 bags of last fall's shredded leaves--not yet composted.
Then a couple bags of good garden soil from HD. Mixing this in as
Dave is bringing more of the yukky soil and dumping it in the bed....
Lastly--I spread a thin layer of Mushroom Soil over the top and that was that!

Planted 8 tomatoes--4 Bush Beans--and 2 zucchinis. That filled the bed.

Must have worked! Look at all these Maters! The tallest one on the right is a Sun Gold.
I have 3 Cherokee Purples, one NOID from a mix of seeds I got at the Plant Swap--
but it looks like a big, sturdy one. We will see.....
Then--I brought home a broken off top from a "Big Boy" from work (HD) and put it
in water and forgot it. A week later--I pulled it out--and the WHOLE stem was
covered in long, white roots! Planted that too.....

Been pinching out the suckers between stems--and if they are a good size--
I have been rooting them. More to share!!!...:o)

On the opposite side of the bed (left side) I planted 2 Zucchinis. One yellow--one green.
They have grown monstrous! But me thinks something is chewing off the blooms...
There's an old rabbit roaming around--and plenty of squirrels too. Also--Chipmunks...
WHO is the guilty party?????

In between the Tomatoes and the Zucchinis--I have 4 bush bean plants.

Everything is growing OK! I am happy!

Here is a picture of the Tomato end--the taller ones are climbing over the fence panel.
That is about 7' at this time.....

Here is the other end of the bed--with the 2 Zucchinis in it.

Behind them, against the fence, I planted 4 Cannas....They will look ice!

In the small bed on the East side of my shed, where I used to grow
my Tomatoes--I planted to "hills" of pickling Cukes--as I like to make my own
Pickles--that are out of this world! Garlic Dill and spices and vinegar, etc...
3 days in the fridge--and you can whoof them down. YUMMMMY!!!
Will post the recipe at the bottom--or in the following "window"....

Here they are! I am a loss what else I can tie to what to contain them????

To the left of these are a few Strawberry plants I am trying for the first time ever.

Here is my Pickle Recipe! Please try it! It is winner!

Gita’s Refrigerator Garlic-Dill Pickles


Need:
3 wide-mouthed jars (pickle type), or Mayo. Jars
One BIG bunch of fresh Dill
6-8 cloves Garlic (or to taste)—diced or thinly sliced.
10-12 pickling cucumbers--(such as Kirby). Fresh is best!
Store cucumbers are WAXED, and no way you can remove it!
If you must use store cukes, score them through the skin with a fork
and slice them thickly. They also have more seeds! But…it will
work if no others are available.

To Do:
Stuff jars ¼ full of fresh dill, stems and leaves! Sprinkle a generous
amount of the chopped garlic on top. Mix up a bit.

Stuff jars as full as you can with speared/sliced cucumbers, inter-
dispersing them with some more Dill and a bit of garlic.
For MY taste---I usually have too much garlic in these. Some love it!

Prepare the Broth:
In a 2Qt. saucepan, combine the following:
2 and a half cups water….3/4-1cup white vinegar (can add a bit of
Apple Cider vinegar too)…1 rounded, regular Tbs. KOSHER, or
Pickling Salt (DO NOT use regular, iodized salt!!!).
1 reg.Tbs. Sugar, 1tsp mustard seed, 1tsp. Pickling
Spice….or--1-2 Bay leaves…6-8 pcs. Whole Allspice,
And about 1 tsp. Hot pepper flakes.
**You can also just use "Pickling Spice" in place of all these spices.
I just could not find it and "winged it" adding my favorites--no biggie!

Bring broth to a boil. Lower heat and simmer all, stirring often,
For about 15 minutes. Keep VERY hot until ready to use!

Filling Jars:
Stirring constantly, to distribute spices, ladle hot broth
evenly into filled jars until all contents are covered. Seal jars.
Invert each jar a couple of times to mix contents.
Let jars cool to room temperature, and then refrigerate.

Pickles are ready to eat in 3 days! They will be delicious and
crunchy! Use them up in about 2 weeks, as they will soften
with time

Enjoy! Gita

GitaGal

Cool - a spade to breqak it up and remove the compaction. A garden fork might have beeen good, too.

4 bags of last fall's shredded leaves to feed it organic matter and good soil plus Mushroom Soil to innoculate it with good soil life forms. A raised bed to minimize future compaction.



Clearly, there's nothing wrong with THAT soil! Maybe the heavy clumps were partly just that it had been compressed and lost structure that it would otherwise have been able to maintain.

If you can get "heavy" soil loose enogh to drain and receive air, it will probably be richer and more reentive of water and minerals than sandy soil.

And now you have all those roots and probably worms in it, they will help keep it "open" and not compacted. Maybe keep adding compost and mulch on top.

(I think that's one reason my clay soil is reverting: I need to KEEP feeding it more than I have been).

Corey

Coirey--

As I dig around mu yard--with all the rain we have had---I see many worms...

I pick up each one and walk over to my new raised bed--dig a small hole--
and deposit the worms in there.

Trying to get the "system" going.

The heavy clumps were also, partially, responsible for we had had all
these Monsoon rains here forever...You would think that they would have covered their
soil piles with something, tough....I think that was part of the reason....
BUT--I still wondered just how "Organic" the soil was b/c it had absolutely
NO soil fragrance! None!

I will not know until next year just how good or bad it is....

So far--so good! Gita

Do you drink coffee or tea? Spent grounds/leaves are basically "wormnip."

neither too much...I drink one cup of "Tasters Choice" in the AM. NO grinds...

but--I can go to the closest 7-Eleven and get all the coffee grinds I want.
If I let them know ahead--they will fill a bucket in one day....

Gita

Gita, your garden pics look great! I'd call it a success. You've sure waited a long time for this day. Big time congratulations to ya!

Shoe

Lots of nitrogen in coffee grounds! I think itts the most valuable thing in my heap.

And it does seem to attract worms - little caffeinne addicts, I guess.

Corey

Shoe---

Thanks a lot! It has been "in the works" about 2 years....

Corey--

Would too many coffee grinds be too much Nitrogen for tomatoes?
Of course--they are already close to 6' tall...I'd rather have more fruit than leaves.

Thank you both! I love chatting about things like this!!!

Gita

>> Would too many coffee grinds be too much Nitrogen for tomatoes?

Oh, man. I don't know. I would GUESS not, because "a lot of nitrogen" might mean 0.5% when talking about things to add to a compost heap, but mean 23% when you have a jar of Miracle-Gro in your hand and that's too much for tomatoes.

>> they are already close to 6' tall...

Again speaking from ignorance, how could a thin layer of "high-N" organic matter sprinkled around plants taller than I am be "too much nitrogen"? But maybe don't dump a 55-gallon drum hauled home from 7-Eleven to create a 3-inch-deep mulch!

Besides the oft-repeated
- - - - - "coffee grounds attract worms",
has anyone mentioned
- - - - - - "slugs don't seem to like coffee grounds"?

I'm still just repeating rumors, so trust your own instincts and experience more than mine!

I just had my first tomato EVER appear on some root-bound quart-sized plants I rescued from a nursery and carried inside and outdoors every night for weeks while nights warmed up to 50 degrees.

They complained about the cold, about the small pots and cloudy weather. When I finally planted them out, they complained "you call THIS soil?!?"

And refused to grow at all for more weeks until we had some slightly warm days. One cherry tomato plant hasn't grown visibly yet, and the other maybe added 4-6" on some branches. The Stupice grew 6"-8" on some of its branches.

Whiners. I'm sure they would have done better if they hadn't been root-bound when brought home, and had gone right into a plastic film tunnel. In better soil.

But the Stupice relented and fulfilled the promise of a few blossoms on each plant, by producing ONE golf-ball-sized dark green tomato. Or green golf-ball. I am REALLY not a tomato expert.


Corey

Gee--Corey!

You are just so much fun to correspond with! i love a "Lase Fair" attitude....
People that only go by botanical names and fuss about every little aspect
of horticulture-----Well--that is NOT me! I am a casual gardener.....

Ignorance is often bliss--when it comes to plants!
People that try to do too much of everything--especially fertilizing and watering--
pay a dear price for it.
My garden does just fine--and I do not do anything extravagant with it--or to it...

My eggplants are doing nothing.....Any advice you can give me?
I have one Italian (white) and one "Black Beauty"----They just sit there.....
What can I throw on them to make them more productive?

I may just yank them out and allow the space they are in for 2 more mounds of Cukes....
Picked my 1st one tonight--a nice 5" pickling Cuke....

Need to hit the sack! been up since 4AM....Watering at HD from 6AM-10:30 AM....
Seems I am stuck with that schedule lately....

Nighty-Night! Gita