MG Frame

I don't know anything about GA3 since I have never used it, but this website is interesting:

http://www.super-grow.biz/GibberellicAcid.jsp

I also don't know anything about the company that posted this website, so whether their product is any good or not, I can't say.

If ya'll get some GA3, practice on guinea plants cause you can really do some damage if you aren't careful. The dilutions are very important. When I first started to use it I practiced on datura metel, tagetes erecta, asarina scandens, hibiscus moscheutos. I grew 4 pots of each and kept one pot of each untreated as a control then used different dilutions on the other three, 100ppm 200ppm and 300ppm. I did this a number of times with lesser and higher dilutions.

Don't try this on one of your rares til you know what you're doing .. the dilution rates vary considerably with different genus's.

X

X - That's what I gathered from that website link I posted above yours. It is a science to figure out the best dilution for any given plant species. Weird Science in the making! :-) So interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience with us! It always fascinating to hear about what other folks are doing to get good results!

X, Joseph, Becky and All -

Thanks for the information - seems like the more I learn from you all, the more questions I get.

X - thank you for the advice on experimenting first with 'guinea plants', using controls of untreated with treated. I would be curious to compare not only germination, but later growth characteristics - not to mention pollen and how succeeding generations of growouts might compare between the treated and untreated antecedents.

fyi - The farmer I mentioned above used that mixture for seedlings of vegies, flowers and herbs that she sold in the spring both at her farm and other outlets - wonderful performance where planted. I suppose some kind of sterilization procedure might be necessary indoors.

Karen

It's a good idea to mix the compost in with the pro-mix, thus establishing beneficial microflora in the container.

Joseph - I agree. Do you think your style of mixing a growing medium might rely less on chemical fertilizers? I think it's possible, but don't know a whole lot about it. I believe the other site did go into this in greater detail. Seems like this would certainly be kinder to the planet - we now past peak oil and approaching peak phosphorous, if we haven't passed that one already.

Karen

I find the topic of enhancing the soil biota quite fascinating from an ecological standpoint. It does require faith in what the beneficial bacteria and fungi can do for the plant and a change in mindset from using high phosphorus fertilizers (anything higher than 1 in the P part of the NPK ratio has a deleterious effect on the fungi surival and establishment of the symbiosis with plant roots).

In my experience, once the GA3 "wears off" or is spent, the plant grows normally so its not a one treatment and the plant goes wild forever sort of thing .. I noticed the extreme accelerated growth only seems to last for about 24 hours then dissipates in a day or two then goes back to normal.

x

Joseph - Since I grow most of my plants in containers, the beneficial bacteria and fungi don't usually survive in the potting mix because they are containers where the temps will fluctuate. But that would be different in the ground. I renew the potting mix with a little compost when I reuse it.

Karen - I think pesticides and fungicides are a bigger threat to our well-being. I live near citrus groves and the citrus pickers have a very high incident of children born with birth defects. And there has been an unusually high incident of rare cancers in certain areas here also. It is believed that the citrus farmers used a lot of pesticides/fungicides for years and years that have built up in the ground soil and underwater springs which may be leaching into the homes or well water now on their properties.

Becky, I agree that agricultural chemicals used as you describe are a terrible danger, not only to those who live nearby, but also to beings - human and otherwise - further along the food chain and/or geographically away from the point of spraying.

But I don't think that invalidates other questions regarding chemical fertilizers in other types of usage. I'm not making a statement as to whether to use these or not - just curious about ramifications.

Karen

Karen - I have no doubt that anything we do to change the environment has consequences. Some worse than others. All I know is that I don't get the blooms I get without fertilizer. I don't have a compost heap because it attracts a lot of bugs. I have enough bugs in my yard as it is. Anyone living in the south can tell you how bad it is! LOL! Also, Fish Emulsion is more organic and promotes leaf growth because it is higher in Nitrogen. Neither, I use in great quantity, so compared to lawn spray companies and citrus groves locally, the fertilizer in my containers probably has a minimal effect on my environment here. The fertilizer is mostly contained in my buckets and other containers so I use less as well. I usually fertilize every 3 weeks, so that averages a little more than once a month. How often do folks spray with pesticides and other chemicals? Possibly more?

Becky, glad your techniques work for you and whoever else. I'm not arguing against them - just exploring alternate possibilities.

I don't think it'll hurt to explore the possibility that alternatives to the way phosphorus is currently accessed by plants within their growing medium or applied or sourced might be found, though. Phosphorus, like oil, is a finite substance on earth, of which there are not infinite supplies. If there were infinite supplies of phosphorus, I would not be bringing this up.

As for compost - given the diversity of situations among us and the different ways to make compost - I don't think making compost can be written off for some, just because it is too problematic for others.

Edited to rewrite first sentence, par 2 about phosphorus. Plants will always need phosphorus - but hopefully we can find ways to lower quantities that are currently necessary.

This message was edited Jul 20, 2010 12:55 PM

Also, I use my freebie self-watering buckets to grow more and more of my plants. Which recycles the fertilizer and water. It has cut down on water usage which is important during times of drought and requires less fertilizer treatments. Which probably explains why I have so many blooms almost daily! I find what I am doing for my climate and zone to be very successful and I encourage others to experiment and find out what works best for them! It takes a little time and effort, but is so well worth it when you find something that works well! :-) :-) :-)

This recycles 5 gallon buckets to keep them out of the landfills, also! I hope everyone finds something that works just a well and also recycles!

This message was edited Jul 20, 2010 11:42 AM

agreed - there's a lot of experimenting ahead for us all - lots of unanswered, open questions still to explore

just edited my remarks about phosphorus in this post - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7983354

X - sorry to have missed your post about how the GA3 seems to "wear off" as plants appear to return to normal growth a while after application. That is interesting - thank you.

But I am curious how the genetic material might be affected - if at all. Wonder also what would happen if a growth hormone were to be applied in combination with some other genetic-altering substance (substances/processes/environmental change) to plants in seed, or process of germination stage or further along...?

What if we could make our moonflowers glow?

good thing I'm not a scientist

Lol ... one of the reasons I got out of genetics was because ethics were nagging me .. on one hand it's so cool what you can do by manipulating genes but as Dr. Malcolm (Jeff Goldblum) in Jurassic Park so succinctly put it ... "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

When former colleagues in the field found viable neanderthal dna and were considering cloning I shuddered.

X

In a controlled scientific study, mycorrhizal fungi were shown to survive and thrive in container temperatures over 40 degrees C (over 104 degrees F) and helped bush morning glory plants survive nicely in the containers.

me too, X

Joseph - that's very useful to know. I've heard that some folks gardening in containers sink them part-way into the ground in the summer - wonder if that would ameliorate higher temps?

(In the winter, in my part of the world, the containers would fill with water unable to drain during freezes and thus most plants would drown)

Joseph, is it possible that there are different strains of myccorhizal fungi that perform differently under different conditions and with different plants? Do myccorhizal ever have specific relationships with certain plants, as in a symbiotic relationship (or other)?

I have a lot of pots sunk in the ground .. I leave about 1 inch sticking up so I can weedwhack and not hit the plants.

Regarding Ipomoea species, I have not spent much time looking but did not find specific micorrhizal fungi species that are found in association with the vines, only that in austere habitats such as sand dunes, Ipomoea pes-caprae was found to have an abundance of hyphae infecting the roots from naturally occurring soil fungi.

Okay- I have repotted my picotee MG in Scott's Premiun Potting Soil ($5/ cu ft). Here is a picture. We will see how it does. What I was using before was Evergreen Topsoil. It is made of pine fines, hardwood fines, forest products, sand and fly ash. It comes from Muscle Shoals, AL. I have used it liberally in the last year, which is unfortunate. But I am getting varying results depending on the plant. What is the pH requirement for I. purpurea and I. nil?

Hi Doug,

Hopefully more experienced MG gardeners than I will chime in. Until then, DG PlantFiles gives appropriate pH for I. purpurea between 6.1 - 7.5 and for I. nil between 6.1 - 7.8 . PlantFiles is not always correct.

In my own garden, these I. purpurea and I. nil do very well in the ground, which is about 6.8, amended with home-made compost. If my google source is correct, the Miracle Grow potting mix that Becky uses is 6.5 (Becky - is that right?).

Even if the optimal pH is decided upon and used, I'll bet there are many factors that could be combined with whatever the optimal pH might be to produce different results.

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This thread has touched a little bit on chemical vs organic styles of growing MGs, as well as container vs ground culture. I hope we continue putting forth differing views, because that might be the best way for us as a group to learn.

Joseph - Thank you for bringing up myccorhizal fungi and benefical bacteria with respect to soil ecology and how those might affect plants' ability to take up nutrients and defend themselves against pests and pathogens. If we ever figure out how to balance those and other relevant factors, then I would imagine that the greater efficiency with which plants can access fertilizer, the less fertilizer might need to be applied.

Becky - I think there are probably many elements within your technique that would adapt well to Joseph's and vice versa. Those self-watering buckets are the best thing to come down the pike in quite a well - not only for the self-watering aspect, but also for the self-aeration of the root area, as well.

X - good to know about sinking potted plants right into the ground and all your other tips

Doug - you're asking good question and sharing good tips, too - this is a great thread to share information and remind some of us what we may have forgotten

Karen

can someone direct me to the thread on the self watering buckets ?
Thanks !
mj

mj - here ya go - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1065171/

Thank You blue !
Lavender Sunsmile from last year

welcome :)

one of the Kawaii colors that appeared in 2007 - looks like a miniature lavender silk (from (Emma) -