Propagation: part XII based on my own experience

Wonderful, it is a small paperback but well worth it.

Cripe, I wish I had known. I have a book coming from Amazon that if I had gone nother $4 I would have gotten their free shipping. Guess I will have to order it by itself.

JB, what do you think, Do you think I would do better getting the entire book, or would the condensed version be enough? But, that would be a lot of work for you. What do you think would be the one for me to get? I don't mind paying you (should I order it from you?) or amazon.

Jeanette

I need to get in on this worm thing, I am so naive about it, but was dreaming about it last night when I saw how many worms are in my lasagna garden this year with all the rain and the leaves from the Fruitless Mulberry trees. I need more info.

vermiculture is the raising and production of worms and thier castings. they are great for adding to your soil as well as a tea for watering in plants as well as weekly applications. here in okie ville they take old refridgerators and freezer's and lay them down, fillthem with soil and compost add worms and feed themas needed. I know they do a lot of bread applications. the fuzzier the better on the bread.
I am not sure on the etiquette on linking others pages, but they are here to see on daves all we have to do is search. I guess its public domain within daves and as long as no one sells the articles.
here is a link to a how to at home Part 1
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/81/

part II
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/154/

I am going to look into making one for myself. its just going to be a few weeks away as I am saving all my pennies for my hosta madness.

dave

I also get a catalog on benifical insects which sells worm egg cases. I will get the name and get a link for anyone who wants to look into this as an alternative to buying live worms. I know I am planning to buy lady beetles and a few other beni's this spring/summer
Dave

All mighty interesting to me. How do you get the castings? Do they sink or float?
Hosta madness, never heard of it, but it sounds good. I have a dense shade area, well dense for California high desert. High UV index in shade but it is very shady, things don't much bloom there but vinca. I am just getting my first few Hosta's and seeded some last year that are doing well, in sun, believe it or not.

OK, I said that I would speak up when I have something to say...well...I did germinate some alyssum seeds that were from 1997! (Next will be all those old tomato seeds, and the others, too.)

I used a container that you get blueberries or other small produce in the market, clear plastic that could not be recycled, so I thought that I would save them until I started seeds this coming spring. Well after going to the winter sowing forum, I thought I would start right away, after learning from Dr. Carolyn that old seeds CAN be germinated. I put in some Jiffy Mix, with some vermiculite and Perlite mixed in, due to so much peat. Then watered the mix with warm water and chamomile tea, for prevention of damp off. Then I pressed the seeds in and snapped the container shut and enclosed that in a plastic bag that also I had been saving from shopping trips..the kind that are in the produce dept., put it near an east-facing window with a goose-neck lamp for extra light. Now I did this on the 1st and it is the 16th and several have already sprouted - from 1997! I am really surprised. The seed companies would have you believe that you need to buy fresh seeds every year. Well, I have a lot of old seeds and since it is like money in the bank, well, money that I have already spent, I will be doing a lot more. Next I will be starting some tomatoes, well, that is experimenting to see if and when they will germinate. I'll keep you posted.

Evelyn

Way to go Evelyn, see, your turning into a PRO already and you didn't think you had it in you.

Great going Evelyn. Proud of you. I have Easter Egg Plant Seeds to spare so If you would like some just say so and I will send you some. NO charge. The idea of those little plastic containers is wonderful. I never would have thought of that. I use them to test my seeds under lights. I use the baggie method and then put them in those containers under lights or on the windowsill instead of the greenhouse. Temp. in the house is more consistant. Had to start using lignts because of lack of sunshine on the windowsill.
Good luck and keep up the good work.

Yeah JB, I did ask you that. But, what is the one Dave is talking about on Amazon? A condensed, or the entire one? Oh, forget I asked JB, I will just go do it now. From Amazon. Thanks.

Evelyn: I am proud of you. way to go. I know I delay trying something I am unfamiliar with...its just a wierd quirk I have. You are right the seed companies do want you to buy new every year and toos the old stuff. It all depends on the seed itself and how it was stored.

Jeanette: the book I am talking about on amazon is the one recomended. when some one recomends something here I tend to go find it so everyone has a shot at having a copy of the book themselves and its a cheap one (under $5.00). and they have used copies if you are willing to deal with other peoples notes in a book.

The catalog I refered to earlier was arbico organics. you can also find worm egg caseings at most organic supplies. gardeners supply has them for 19.95 and all you do is rake the ground or place them in your worm composter. There are thousands of sites devoted to all things worm related. I found a site worm mans worm farm. if you can imagine it they have it. I also found a product called can-o-worms. its designed to be used indoors with no odor and a self contained kit for those who feel inclined to just buy the ready to go kit.
http://www.allthingsorganic.com/Products/can-o-worms.asp

I believe the best way to go is to build your own bin as shown in the articles referenced earlier. One thing I did read about was fruit flies and other flies may be an issue. this can be controlled with a simple built controll trap. Basically you take a container that will fit into the bin, attach a funnel or small entry point for the flies to enter the trap. the bait can be some kind of fruit mixed into a slurry by using a simple home blender. place the bait into the trap attach the funneled entry on to the trap and wait for it to fill up. the pests can be either released outside where they will no be a pest to you or you can dispose of the traps base in the weekly garbage run.
anyone useing or curious about benifical insects and their use? I will try to chat about them in my next post. unless we need to chat about worms some more, I am always amazed at how worms operate. they take most of the organic kitchen waste and convert it to a time released nutrient package. the worm castings are coated to provide a timed release of the nutrients in their castings. mainly nitrogen. I have not seen anything about any other nutrients released in their castings but I believe there has to be other nutrients in the casting. Looks like another search project for dave.
Stay warm and dry
Dave
Dave

Dave, what I was telling JB was that Amazon has that for $7 something. in January 1997.

Then they have another book below that.

Then below that they had the same book as the one we are interested in (the top one) for $74 something In December 1997. They were both paperbacks.

What was the difference other than the dates and the prices?

Is the cheaper one a condensed version? It didn't say so. Maybe it was finer print.

I am fascinated with bugs because when my camellias had that ugly tea acale and my research said lady bugs eat the Scale. So happens I keep a few lady bugs in the bird room and in the greenhouse year round (I know that sounds crazy) but you would be surprised how much crap they eat off the flowers and whith the spray (non toxic) and the lady bugs, my plants are really in good shape. So, when I found them, which is not easy since they tend to hybernate, I put them on the camellias and with some spray , washing and lady bugs. WaLA.......scale gone. So, if you want to talk about bugs, why not start with Lady Bugs.....everyone has them I feel sure. I saved mine when they swarmed in the Fall. They were all over the place and instead of putting them outside, I picked them up and put them inside and in the GH./ LOL JB

LOL, I'm not fascinated by bugs JB, but I do really like ladybugs. I guess the ones that fascinate me are the Preying Mantis. Or is it Praying? Either way, I was cleaning up the plants on my deck in the fall for winter a couple of years ago, and I reached for a dahlia and all of a sudden something moved and I caught it out of the corner of my eye. I looked real close, and it was a Preying Mantis. Those are really interesting critters to me. Last year I bought an egg case but I never did see anything come out of it.

I would not want one of those praying or preying mantis in my house. They freak me out.
Interesting yes, and their babies are sooooo cute, but the big ones. No way ...I usually have a family of them on my tropicals on the porch and I can never find the nest. I wonder where they lay their eggs? I wonder if they lay the eggs and go away and the babies do their own thing like turtles. Hmmmmm now I will havwe to think about that.

You might be looking in the wrong place JB. I think they hook their nests to branches and they look like wasp nests, kind of, but smaller. No, they don't hang around.

Oh Evelyn you go girl. Way to get down with your bad self. lol

I have planted some old seeds and have had some good news to report but these one seeds that are from a Campsis vine, that are 3 or more years old, have never germinated. I keep trying because someone here on the Historic plant thread, sent me some from an old 100 year old vine that was being killed or removed or something from a house in Texas.

I love historical things and I wish they would grow. I may try the tea method in the fridge for a few days. Just as a last attempt.

How big are they Helen? Do they need soaking, Knicking, or??? Are they Radicans? I have some i should get planted. Let me know what you did to yours.

OK, bring on the tomatoes Evelyn!! What are your temps like? Can you plant them outside when they come up?



Edited to add:

BTW Helen, how did the first days of the new job go? Can't remember when you said you were to start.

This message was edited Feb 17, 2010 7:25 PM

Trumpet Creeper, they just have those seed pods with several separate seeds in the pod, and I don't think they need nicked. I about cut my finger off trying to nick Canna seeds last week. I have a blood blister now. Got any suggestions about the Campsis.

I ordered the book. Now just got to find the time to read it. We are in high 60s and everything is raising their heads and welcoming our spring heat. Got to get everything in the ground and their roots driven downward before the heat hits. So my busiest time of gardening is the next three weeks.

You harvest your worm castings by driving your worms further down into the bin and scrape off the castings on the top. Light will drive your worms downward.

Our temperature started out this morning in the low 20's.....it is now in 39 and it is windy and cloudy. I so would love to have it go to 50 today. Maybe it will melt the 8 ft. of snow outside my door. My son in law is no help. He made the observation that the snow we had to pile up from the barnyard will no doubt be gone by July. then of course he looks at me with the devil in his eye. GRRRRR.

Want me to come out there and do something to that SIL for you? I know, last year I just knew we were still going to have it until June.

Good afternoon:
When I was about 8 I collected about 20 of the egg casing tossed them in a box in the closet and forgot them. My mom was cleaning while I was in school ad she heard a scratch scratch sound from my closet. oh my she found thousands of the little critters in the box.
I took them to school to share..the teacher was not impressed. she made me set them outside in snow untill we were let out in the afternoon. they all died.
I found another site for worm egg caseings. Gardens alive has them for 50 @$12.95 or 100 $19.90...
Ladybugs or lady beatles eat their weigt in bugs. they love aphids, thrips, whiteflies and mites.
I am planning to release benificial neamatodes -the ones that feed on grubs and other blowground pests. I am also going to release green lacewings, lady bugs and praying mantis. I amhopeing that will keep the bugs down to a managable population. My plan is to stay as close to organic as possible.
I know it will end up being a bit more money than I want to spend but the trade off will be worth it.
Do we want to discuss bugs? do we want to chat about benificial insects, the pests of the garden and landscape?
Dave

The nemtodes will be interesting Dave. I think the lacewings would be nice. Every once in a while I find one in the house but I don't have many houseplants in here to keep any alive I don't think. I didn't know worms had egg casings. I thought they were live bearers.

My mom used to take us out in the forests with gunny sacks when we were kids to gather ladybugs while they were still in hibernation and she would put them in fruit jars in the refrigerator and release them a few at a time in her rose beds.

Thanks worms, I had no clue. 4paws here moved her worms from California, to Colorado last year and then to Florida where they now live happily.

I saw concoctions to kill nemotodes, I need to look them up, you want to have them and Jerry the organic gardener, wants to kill them.

I think I will purchase more ladybugs for my greenhouse. I can not wait until they hatch. LOL Where can I buy them online? I can tolerate bugs if they are pretty and have a purpose but I hate stink bugs and spiders and silver fish. Yuck.

Me too to all of the above except the ladybugs come already hatched. They are just asleep. I think they are still asleep when you get them. Don't you ever see them next to the cash registers in the stores in the spring? A lot of the stores used to do that. They weren't asleep because it was warm in the stores and it was later in the year. When you get them you are suppose to put them in the refer to keep them sleeping. Then you water your plants, sprinkle before putting them out because they are thirsty and that keeps them there. Otherwise they will fly away looking for food and water. Then you sprinkle a few out in your plants. But, they do eat a lot so I think you can also buy food for them in case you don't have enough bugs. They will leave if they can't find enough aphids etc.

Wormsaway probably has them. Google ladybugs and you can find where to get them. My sister tried to get Lacewings sent to her in February a few years back. She had Whitefly real bad in her greenhouse. But nobody would send them to her that early. Said they would freeze in transit. I know, GardensAlive have them. Oh gosh, all of those places like that have them. So anyway, don't be surprised if they won't send them until May or later.

Hi all
I was getting ready to put those seeds from Dave and Jeanette into their little incubators, and guess what----- can't get into the greenhouse for the flats. Frozen-frozen shut!!!!!!!!!!! We have had snow on the ground since Dec 1, and are well on our way to setting a record. Had a couple of warmer days, but not much melting
I always use the dome starter flats, and have used the really tall ones but, I think I like the shorter ones better. I will pay more attention this year as to why.
Mom is settling into the "rehab " center (we don't call it a nursing home or she would freak out) so I shouldn't have the same "lack of time" for gardening this year. I wasn't able to get my softwood cuttings to root out, maybe cuz of the same thing--dormant?? don't know, but will try again using Dave's Root and Grow again.
Lee

good mornin:
yes gardens alive and all things organic. should have both. I am not sure on the live bearing vs egg casings. All I do know is I saw the casings in the gardens alive cataloge and they were reasonably priced. I also read where if you wish to harvest the worm casings you just pu food on the other side of the bin and they will migrate to it.
I am a big fan of the benificial insects. on the neamatodes, there are benificiam an d the bad ones that can harm planted things including the lawn.... now if you are like I am the lawn is just to keep from having a mud pit where you walk. I for some reason detest turf, It might be from dealing with bermuda grass, as it is the #1 turf grass in oklahoma. it is bulletproof except for round up spraying. I try to keep it out of my beds and along the fence because its such a hassel to trim and keep down along the fence.
I will try to have a chat on bugs with my monday posts.... from what I have read the lacewings seem to be one of the main ones to have as they are not too picky about what they eat.
Dave

Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden supply sells praying mantis eggs, ladybug, 4500 for $29.99. I think you probably get under 50 for around $8.00 at the nursery. Maybe go in with neighbors and save some money. Nematodes are 10 million for $39.99. What is good is their catalog explains why you would be using the parasitic nematodes. Their web is www.GrowOrganic.com. I have not checked them on the watch or ordered from them. Just got the catalog.

A situation happens every year. My neighbor buys the ladybugs and before the day is over they are in my garden. I told her the method, which by the way is on the container and she did follow the instructions and they stayed on her property. I have had larva ladybugs the last two years. I try to stay as Organic as possible and I think that is one of the benefits.

Great info Sharon. I spotted a food for benificials in one of the organic magazines. Its mostly necter, honey dew (which is the black secreations you see on the leaves when the pests are feeding). they also sell a home for the insects (I thinkits lady bugs home)
Organic is the best way to go (imho)

Dave

OMG !!!!! Now the snow in the barnyard melted......Not the 8 and 10 ftr. piles.....just what the plow missed and we have slush and mud. I hate this.]
If they wait unti MaY TO SEND THE BUGS, i WILL HAVE MY OWN.

Wish mine would melt, just barely hit 30 today. I know I have a cold frame somewhere out there, just can't see it and have no desire to plow through thigh high snow to go searching.

It's really too early to set out any tomatoes....at the very earliest, March 15th, but then we usually get snow, so since I will have seedlings ready, well, I sure hope to, I will put out some as "sacrificial lambs", and protect them with juice bottles filled with water....the free "walls-of-water"....I have some leftover floating row cover so I can make a mini-greenhouse with it. If it stays cold out, well they won't really grow until it gets warm anyway. I usually put them out May 15th and generally do not have trouble with that general date. I could winter-sow some as well, so I will have a variety of harvest dates.

One year, many years ago, when I first moved here, I had 100 tomato plants started, while we were still living in the mobile home. (Seed trays everywhere, but lots of natural light.) I planted them out, and they were getting some fruit on them when all of a sudden some were toppled over, gophers on the bottoms and then the deer ate the tops, as well as the green tomatoes. I guess they are not too bright as they would try a green tomato, spit it out, then try another one, and so on....well we did get some, but I was thinking I would have a lot to give to the homeless shelters and soup kitchens, as well as give some to all my neighbors. (They were probably getting a good laugh!) There was a fence, but just a small inadequate chicken wire fence; the deer probably just stepped over it. Now, all the ornamentals, except for the daffodils, santolina and rosemary are sprayed on a regular basis, and all edibles are enclosed in the fenced area or on the porches, high up in hanging baskets, as they will get on the porches, if we are not around.

I usually plant the food crops in raised 4X4' beds, lined on the bottom with hardware cloth. Still, one of my neighbors had so many ground squirrels that even though she had a similar setup, all of her garden was attacked, and now they come here, so I will not know until harvest time comes if all of this work will be in vain. One of my other neighbors has electric fence surrounding their veggie gardens. Oh the trouble we go to just for natural, fresh produce. Maybe I'll have to hang it up after this year, and shop at the farmers' market that they have in town (20 miles away).....if so, I will have a lot of seed to give away, and trade for what? Something that the animals don't eat...even the monkshood was eaten by the deer, probably the one we saw dead near the road, as I don't think they go far after eating a few of those leaves. I will have to plant as many poison plants as possible, then maybe I can carry on another year, we'll see....I really don't like doing that, but what is the alternative?

Call them JB. See when they will send them. You are zone 6 so they will probably send them earlier than to our zone 5.

I think I would check different places. 4500 ladybugs would be enough for a very large area. You don't want them all to eat and run. The next hatching of aphids, spider mites, etc. would take over again. BUT, with the ladybugs you can put some in the refrigerator. I would get some food for them tho because they may eat each other if they were hungry.

Which insects do lady bugs eat, I have always been temped but never bought them since I always used non organic methods to control stuff prior to last year. I would strongly consider all of the options now. I will check out the nematodes too.

I have a bad issue with fire ants here, they used to smother all of my healthy plants. I would try to save them, and one day was just deciding to just dig up the plants and try to move them, as a last effort, then saw all the root balls were smothering the plant roots. I don't think lady bugs would eat them but if you know something that does besides gophers. I would be happy, they bring those devils to my yard and eat my plants before the ants go anywhere.

I am so sorry for all of you with the nutty weather you have had this year. It is of Biblical proportions, the wacky weather you had and hope it is an isolated thing. Because if you all leave the east coast or mid west and the Californians all want to leave this Poor bankrupt state, we are all going to move to Texas or something or be part of Mexico and let them have the West back, them and the native Americans can take it all.

We have no vermin here. No gophers, no fire ants, no deer no nothing. I am sure we have a forum with experts helping with your problems. I will see if I can find it. I only have the heat as a vermin. I plant my tomatoes. I have the square Burpee cages. I use clear heavy painters plastic. I lay down the cage and measure the plastic to be 6 inches longer on the bottom and 10 inches taller on the top. I plant the tomato and then wrap the cage twice with my wrap. I cut the bottom slits si U can spread them out on the bottom. I did a hole around the plant and bury the bottom section in the ditch and then build up the soil around the bottom of the cage covering the plastic. Then at the top I tie it off. So when you stand there and look, I have created a 3 foot tall greenhouse for each plant. I poke a small hole under the plastic so I can get my hose in there and water once a week. Then i cover the hole back up. Our biggest problem here is the wind. Therefore, this method protects my plants from the wind and keeps them warm. I must gets the roots down deep before the heat hits or they are not going to survive the early heat. I also mulch with newspaper and forest compost mulch. The heat builds up in the single greenhouses. I have to keep a close eye that they do not heat up to much. When it gets to hot inside, just untie the top and open. You may need to tie it up again, so do not lose track of your tie.

Wow, I knew people moved to Vegas for a reason. You are basically in the same Sunset zone as I am in, aren't you in Zone 11, or USDA 8B? OR 9A.

I only planted tomatoes one time at this house and they did great in the fall and late summer but in the mid summer, not so much.

Ladybugs eat almost everything. spider mites, aphids, white fly, don't know what all. You will have to look them up. That is what google is for.

Sharon it sounds like your tomatoes should do well in their ghs. How long do you leave the plastic on?

Right now, just experimenting, to see what will germinate. They all were in a large plastic tote, unsorted, and what a time I had. I separated the annuals into hardy annuals, tender, but needing a head start, and the perennials, and the warm veggies, and cool-season veggies, then sub-categories, direct-sow, and start in flats or pots, then put into cell-packs. I have a lot of left-over pots of various sizes, I hate to admit, I never threw away. I washed them all in a chlorine-water rinse, (not all in one day, as I kept on finding more!) But now they are organized, as well as the seeds are. Now I read that I should have already started the hardy annuals, many of them in situ, but Christopher Lloyd has conflicting instructions. In his latest book, the one before he passed away, not the "tropical" book, but "Garden Flowers from Seed", (with Graham Rice), he says sow in situ, and in his "Well-Tempered Garden" says most of those can be put in pots and planted out when small. Well, I have purchased poppies in one gallon cans and they were completely root-bound, I guess because no one believed they could be transplanted, and they bloomed all summer. They were so root-bound I really struggled to get them out. I think I had to cut them out.

So what has been your experience? Poppies and others like larkspurs in situ, or in pots? WS'ing is recommended by Trudi for these seeds as well. I suppose I could try a variety....thoughts, anyone??