Propagation: Propagation: part XI based on my own experience

Morning Dave: I think the problem with my listings is that I have such a few select items that they get lost in the search. That is why I thought if I zeroed in on the Plant search, it may help people find the type of starter plants I sell. I am not a garden person, I am tropical and some houseplants, so I am limited to the selection of things since I am so small. If I were selling garden flowers like you do, I would be more visable. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Maybe DavesGarden is not the place to sell, that too is a thought. I just can not expand anymore or get too many more vrieties because of the space, time and my age (big factor) since I am not as full of energy as I once was. These are all things I must consider. Thanks for your thoughts; I respect your ideas and do appreciate you sharing with me. Hugs.

Hello everyone:
I have been discussing container sizes alog with flat sizes. I think a quick refresher is a good idea. I am not sure if I did this earlier but here it is from the top of my head.

Planting containers or just plain ole' pots.
I guess we should discuss size first. size does matter. as a rule of thumb we are suposed to transplant with a pot that is 2" bigger than the one holding the plant currently. size specifics. a majority were in 4", 6", 8", 10" and so on. now we also have the difference between nursery containers and greenhouse containers.
Greenhouse containers are generally smaller and have a lip and are either square or round.
Nursery containers were generally called gallons depending on the size or the container. our economic thought introduced us to what are called cheeter gallons and the full size are refered to as true gallon.
Now comes the federal government (rut row). the feds told the industry to step into uniformity. we now can not refer to a plant as a gallon plant. They are now refered to as 6" or 10" and so on, or #1 , #3, #5, #7, #10 and so on. now a 6" is the same as a gallon, a 10" is refered to as a 3 gallon, a 12" is referd to as a 5 gallon (might be 14"). why did they do this. because the weighs and measures of trade must be acurate and a cheeter gallon is not a gallon by volume and this was done to give the consumer an acurate measurement and a level playing field within the industry.
They come in many sizes shapes as well as different materials use to make them. I have found the #7 to be a usuless size as the jump from a #5 to a #10 works just as well in vertually the same time frame and you get more out of #10 than a #7. (just my own opinion)
A little bit of history.
While I was chatting with a nurserymen in south florida, he kept calling then cans. I wondered why so I asked someone else (I do not remember who) in the early days plants were potted in cans, coffee, veggie and any thing in between. with this came some side effects. being made of metal the often corrodeed and also released a few nutrients into the soil which would cause a number of issues toxicity and nutrient binding (withholding) both would tie up certain nutrients making them unavailable to the plant for healthy growth. Most growers worked around it or ignored it and did the best they could.
Along comes plastic, a wonderful product from our friends in the oil fields. most containers were made in injection molds, which produce a stiffer heavier container which would last for years. They came in many sized containers. next we were introduced to vacume molded containers. They were first introduced in the retail market place as 6 packs. 6 packs were the standard for quite a long time until the marke started seeing jumbo 6 packs, 18 packs and so forth.
In the growing end of plants we were introduced to what are called sheet pots. Sheet pots are Vacuum molded and lightly perferated to allow easy removal of a single pot.. I personally like them as the amke it easier to handel as well as the lower cost of the containers. a 3" vacume molded container costs 4 cents each, while the same 3" conainer injection molded runs 17 cents each. This cost is based on by the case and $10 shipping cost.
As well as sheet pots we have what are called propagation flats. (pictured)These are flats with a number of cells in each sheet. They are a thicker more ridged material as well as not being perferated, which makes handeling them a lot easier. I had been known to carry 4 - 6 propagation flats to where we were poting up 6" containers for lining out in the field. The most common sizes are 24, 38, 40, 50,105, 285 and 505 cells per flat.
Hanging baskets: Hanging baskets usually come in 4 basic sizes 6", 8", 10", & 12". The sales people started charging for hangers in an effort to make the cost seem lower. There are a number of specialty plant hanging containers. I have seen 12" and 24" pipe with planting holes evenly spaced on the pipe. there is a new fad called "flower pouch's". they come in 5 hole and 10 hole hanging pouches. I like the look of these but I reserve my final judgement until I use one over a season.
Another hanging basket form is a 3 pc. basket where the bottom piece has several planting holes around it. Once you fill the base with soil and plant you flowers in the apropriate hole you snap on the next section. this secion also has planting holes. Finish the basket by snaping the top ring onto the basket fill with soil and plant the desired plugs in the top. Fasten the hanget on the rim of the basket water well and hang it up for everyone to enjoy.
One question I seem to have in my mind and I am sure some ask the same thing. How many plugs do I plant in one container? Personally I have planted 10" baskets with8 plugs to make a fuller basket faster and in my opinion a nicer planting over all. I have also tried using 3 jumbo plugs (24 cell prop tray) in a #3 container. My question is this... Which is faster mass planting or taking larger plants to transplant into the container? I have found it to be advantagous to use more plugs in the larger container as it is much faster and a better quality plant.
I think I have covered containers 101. anyone with a question or observation, opinion or ather input feel free to post it or email me.
Dave

pictured is a perferated sheet pot 36 pots of 2 1/4 inch

Dave, I thought I would prefer the round azalea pots, but the sheet pots may actually be better. I ordered some from ebay last year and didn't like them very much. They were much too flimsy and the pots had a tendency to tear when you tried to pull them apart.

JB it seems like the tropicals would really go, probably more so in the spring though when they don't have to be quite as pampered. I Thought last year that my business was really off due to the economy, but who knows. After Mom got sick, I basically quit all together. Now that she is doing better, I thought I would try again.
I hope to list on the marketplace as well as ebay. I jumped in a little too soon I think and I need to do some more prep work. We'll see how it goes.
Gotta run pick up from school. I will check in later.
Linda

You guys are growers and ebayers. Got a question for all of you, and would like your honest opinion and answer.

Here is the problem.

Along in October I started looking thru Dave's for a variegated Monstera Delioso sic. for my daughter for Christmas. Figured on paying around $40 plus shipping. Tropical. Well, after no luck, I started looking on ebay. There are several growers/suppliers in there. When I input "variegated Monstera". One in particular and they were starting at $9.99. Well, I watched and they ended up around $15.00!!

Ok, so they put another one up. It was getting later, closer to Christmas, so I went ahead and bid on it and it went up to around $40 and I lost it at the last minute. So then I get a message from ebay saying that I am being offered it, or another one like it, due to either the high bidder backed out,or the seller had another one. I told them I would like to think about it.

So, then the next day, another one came on. same thing, $9.99. I bid on it and got it for around $15. I wrote to ebay and told them no thanks that I got one for half the price I had bid on the first one.

So, I get the plant. It was 2 leaves with the center, where the new growth comes from, cut out. I wrote to the seller and asked them why it was cut out and they said for better looks, or something, that it would not hurt the plant. Well, I think they were ticked off that I didn't pay them the higher price so they sent me a bad plant, and even maimed it.

They had like almost 3000 stars and 99% positive feedback. I have found with these people that they are gravy to ebay so if you have a, ebay will not even let you post negative feedback.

What do you think? Jeanette

I would still post anyway Jeanette.... that is so stupid of them. It will come back to them even it nothing comes should you post negative.

BJ I've sent you a dmail....


16.5 inches of the fluffy white stuff yesterday, today 3-4" and tonight it is starting all over.....LOL

Went into work today, man after a week off during shut down and resting from hernia surgery, first day back really kicked my butt,..... came home ate and went to bed, checked e-mails and now back to bed to run through the day again tomorrow.

night all

Dave I'm interested in pots just make sure I'm on the list.

Janet

Janet you stay home tomorrow. Even if you feel ok you don't want to get stuck in a snowbank in your condition.

Jeanette

Oh no Janet, ebay won't print it. They will send me an email telling me that those people have such great feedback that I should not smear them.

I had the same thing with another one like them who did not know what "Buy Now" meant. After all of those sales? Thousands of feed back? I told him I wanted to buy it and he said the end of the auction wasn't for 2 more days. He wanted me to bid.

Jeanette

Dave, per our conversation earlier, I could probably use some of the 2 1/4 x 2 1/4, but not more than a half a dozen and that might not be enough for you to mess with. Or, you could maybe put in a half dozen of the bigger ones too I guess. Don't know unless I try them.

This message was edited Jan 5, 2010 9:33 PM

eBay people can be really crappy sometimes depending on who they are. I stay to myself and pamper my customers. I try and explain in the description of the plant that they are getting a "starter plant" tell them how old it is, what kind of pot it is in, all sorts of little things so they are not disappointed when they get my plants, I always try and send good plants and when one may look scimpy I send an extra and tell them to enjoy the gift.
It depends on the seller and how they feel about customer service.
I am not dependent on the ebay sales for my income or maybe I would not be as nice. LOL I do get excited when the feedback comes back good and if there is any question about the plants I want to know. I do not want to sell something that will not grow.
You could give them feedback but it would not have to be "negative" . Maybe just a bit snippy, like plant was sad looking but shipping was good. That they may print. Put something in good first and hope they do not finish reading the sentence. LOL I am so bad.

That is automatic when someone buys something at top bid . you have the option to offer the next bidder the same plant at the same price. I seldom did it but you can. I always relisted unless the price was low and the other person really wanted it. I always contacted them personally and told them what I planned to do.

I also give refunds on shipping. Many sellers will just keep the extra, but I find it brings people back if you even send them back 50 cents or a dollar. Good PR.

Tommy must be looking down on me, my bird of paradise, ponytail palm, and parlor palm seeds have all started to sprout. I just hope they all make it past the seedling stage. Going to start building a bubbler today, it hasn't been above 15 degrees for the past two weeks and I need something to do. Started some abutilon and cactus seeds yesterday along with some sabal palms. Informed the son-in-law I needed him to put time in his spring excavating schedual for putting in a trench for the electric and water for the greenhouse. He laughed and said "oh good, maybe nan can have her end tables and kitchen counter back now" good thing I like him. JB, I started some of the Easter egg and Pumpkins on a stick seeds the other day, couldn't wait, the packs were just looking at me saying "plant me, plant me". I'll let you know how they make out.

Well JB, I could even have gone for the only 2 leaves if they hadn't cut the center leaf out. To get a plant to grow now I am going to have to hope it sends a shoot up from the root. And I think I can probably think maybe 6 months to a year for that to happen.

All of their feedback said how exceptional the plants were they send out etc blah blah blah. These sellers who have up in the thousands of feedback probably started out as pretty good sellers, and probably still are with most of their customers. According to their feedback, they had the same people buying a lot of plants from them. In fact I had just gotten 2 very nice plants from them the week before. But I won't buy any more from them. The 3rd one was it.

No, the plant I had bid on went up twice as high as all of their others had. Probably someone else wanted it for a Christmas present too. I would never give this to my daughter as a Christmas present. She has more patience than I do so I will give it to her when she comes over in a couple weeks. I bought her something else.

Withad if you got those three to go without having a greenhouse you are doing great. Do you have much humidity? I find that is the biggest drawback in my house. It is too dry. I have wood and electric heat. Very dry. I use to have 2 or 3 humidifiers running in the winter but I didn't see much difference so gave that up.

Keep up the good work and keep on that son in law for the greenhouse.

Jeanette:
I am a bit confused but thats not hard. anyway Are you saying they cut out the center and the top 2 leaves or are you saying the plant was bare except for the terminal bud and 2 leaves with the bottom stripped bare?
If I am remembering right what you are looking at is called variegated swiss chees plant? My confusion lies with my my knowing a philodendron monsetoso deliciosa (I think thats how its spelled ) its been a long time on the botanical. any way the phil. mon. del. is also know as philodendron sellome.
Philo. sellom is a large cetral leeder plant that does not like to have its center cut out. It has hguge leaves like an elephant ear in leaf size.
I have the 2.25s on hand so send you a few is not a big deal. email me on hotmail unless you already have. I look here 1st in the am. more l8tr today have 2 lay down for a bit
Dave

Jnette, nope nothing but one of the 72 cell seed propagators from Burpees and a heat mat. Dry here also, forced hot air heat, always have chapped lips and dry skin all winter.

It is the variegated Monstera. Think you have the deliciosa right. It should have huge cut leaves. Think some are called swiss cheese, but I have seen many different philodendrons with that label so I hesitate to use it.

They sent me a plant with 2 leaves and a stub in the middle where the central stem had been cut about 2 inches from the last leaf. Where any future growth would come from. Maybe they used it as a starter plant. The piece they cut out.

The only place I can see that new growth can come from would be maybe a new shoot from the roots.

I would buy some of the sheets from you Dave, but I have never used them and would like to try a few this year before investing in a lot. I don't have the room to jump in with both feet without knowing it is what I want.

If you buy rooted, or unrooted cuttings, what would you plant them in? The sheets? I would like to buy some rooted cuttings, but not sure I could use, or have room for a lot of each one. I will take a look at what they have. Think whatever you or myself decide we should get orders in for certain dates so they aren't just grabbing pieces to fill the order. Maybe that is what they did with JB's first unrooted order.

Well Withad you are doing great. What do you do with them when you take them out from under the dome? Do you have to do it gradually to get them used to the dryer climate of the house?

Jeanette

Jeanette:
I will be using unrooted cuttings in the 2.25's (3601) and the rooted ones in 3.25's (1801) . I can send you just a few to look at and see which you prefer I don't know if I have any of the 1801's, but once they come in I can send you a couple. I have about decided to buy a case of the 1801's anyway I hope to have totals by monday.
If your plant is this one it will send out shoots from the nodes where the leaves were removed. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/83931/
Typically nurseries do the leaf removal to clean up the plants. It is similar to pothos - devils ivy.

I think I have your plant confused with philodendron selloum http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/37036/
Can we get a pic??? I am thinking given time you will have a decent plant. It does sound like they were playing fast and loose with you because of a few $$$. In the long run they lost completely because I want to know who it was so I don't buy from them and I am sure others feel the same.
Dave

No not the selloum. Either the deliciosia or the bjorniana, which I spelled wrong. Maybe I got the picture this time. Nope, for some reason it won't copy the picture in the plant files.

Anyway, you got the picture. Yes, it might grow if I live that long. Or, if I don't get mad and throw it out. I will get their seller name in ebay and at least this way some people are hearing their lousy feedback. They sell tropicals.

I am sending you what I can get off ebay now Dave. Sending it in regular email. It is broken up because that is what ebay does after they are so old I guess.
Anyway, you can see what it is suppose to be.

And please note the Rare XL

Jeanette

Jnette, I usually pot the seedlings into 3 or 4" pots and cover them with a 2 litre soda bottle with the top off for a week or two then take the bottle off and on every other day for another week or two then leave it off unless they start to wilt to much. If they should show signs of wilting I usually put the bottle back on until they get more leaves on them. It seems like the more leaves they have the better chance they have. I mix in cinnamon with the potting soil and water them once a week with a peroxide solution once a week to stop the damping off. Don't know how technical it is but it works for me.

Withad, where did you get the cinnamon idea, and what is it suppose to do?

Jeanette

I heard it keep the gnats from laying eggs in your soil for your seedlings. I forgot. I am going to sprinkle cinnamon tomorrow.

I am also going to try the peroxide water. Have any measurement water vs peroxide?

I just glug some in. But, I think it needs to be fairley fresh. I've been using some I have had a while and don't think it is working very good. I have found that if you don't use any soil products that you don't normally have gnats.

Thanks a bunch.

I am not sure who mentioned it specifically so I don't want to quote anyone, but several people have mentioned it here and on garden net. I use anywhere from a dash to 1/2 tablespoon depending on the pot size and just mix it into the soil. Once the seedlings are up I sprinkle a little more on the surface. I works the same as willow tea and acts as a fungal agent. As for the peroxide I use the 3 percent you find in the dollar store and while I started using it to soak my seeds in I read somewhere where it also helps cut down on damping off. I mix 1 tablespoon to a gallon of water. I don't know about the gnats part but now that you mentioned it I don't seem to have any so maybe it also helps with the gnats problem.

the peroxide also helps with the germination, I had daylily seeds sprout in 36 hours using it with my other special stuff (Kelp, gibb, and other addatives)
The peroxide will alsso explode the eggs in the soil
More tomorrow
Dave

I know that all you say about the peroxide is right but it also puts oxygen in the soil so the roots don't rot from overwatering. It is especially good for houseplants in the winter time when we are all so prone to overwatering and killing them. If you think you have done that, mix up some water with peroxide and give it another drink.

Close your eyes if you don't think you should be putting more water on a plant that has been overwatered.
'course if you have waited too long and there is no hope for the plant that even peroxide can't bring it back, don't blame me.

Jeanette

edited to say, on my last post I said soil products. (meaning I use soiless in the house for seedlings) but I should have included, organic matter too.

This message was edited Jan 7, 2010 8:15 AM

Jeanette:
You are so right about peroxide ...enough can't be said about it.
It will be hit and miss on emails this weekend so please be patient. i sm getting a shot tomorrow am so friday is gone. Hey we are getting hard freeze warnings tonight. Its not a normal thing here, and everyone flips out when we have strange weather. 1st rain after severy sunny days and they all act like they need driving lessons...geeze Its so funny and agrivating as well
Dave

new thread for slow-dial-uppers?

Jnette, i am sorry you got such a bad plant from an ebay vendor. I don't know why some people want to send poor quality. I feel as if ebay is not as protective of either their buyers or sellers lately. I have recently just started listing again but this week, I have had no bids or even watchers. I think I will try some other outlets.
I would still be inclined to leave a comment about the plant you received. There is a difference between honnesty and sugarcoating the facts.
Hope it helps, Linda

Go ahead and complain about the weather. Won't be gardening here for a while. - 25 last nite, -10 rite now. Can only dream of the warmth the babies need, even under the lites it is quite chilly. Guess I will have to wait longer to start. yes, I do have a heat mat, but only one isn't enuf. Hope all are OK. Later, Lee

Yes Lee, it makes you wonder if the plants will make it. My rhodies aren't used to it. the leaves are curled up like pencils. Even the helebores aren't doing anything.

What are you putting on heat mats Lee?

I know Linda, you do take a chance on ebay. It used to be a lot better. I had to laugh, I was interested in a coffee maker a while back and asked the seller a couple of questions about it and then remembered something else I wanted to know and she had ebay block me from bidding on her items. I have never had that happen before and was shocked but then decided it was funny.

Jeanette

Lee: I am always reminded it could be colder. My dear wife comes from great falls montana and is telling tails of walking uphill to school in 6 ft of snow or something like that..... ok I exagerate it but I do know it can always be colder. are you hitting record clds this winter? we are. Usually I wouldn't have to run as much heat as I am this year. but hey I have more room to grow from so I am lovin it
Pics this weekend of my area
Dave

we are moving to here

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1068021/

Dave