Wintersowing 2009-2010

diamond, I've been amazed how well wintersown seedlings transplant into the garden. They seem to be extra hardy started this way. I just water them in well and thats it. They usually don't even wilt.

diamond... i have literally hundreds of photos from the past 3 yrs.... anyone on particular you are thinking of?

Whew! I am glad to hear they transplant well. I think that information was geared more towards store bought plants. TCS I think I have seen some of your plant pictures. Do you have a favorite?

I have a lot of favorites... here is one of them.

I mostly post in the Cottage Garden "PIggy" threads...

here is one... scroll towards the bottom... Nov 3rd... i have 4 images posted here.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1052728/

This message was edited Dec 24, 2009 2:33 PM

I kinda think disturbing the roots ends up being a benefit- seems the seedlings develop deeper root systems into the native soil. After noticing that, I've become practically OCD about removing most of the nursery soil from any purchased plant before it goes in the ground. I use the hose sprayer to wash it off as I fill the hole its going in.

Mine sometimes pout for a few days after transplant but then they acclimate. I think weather plays a part in how they react to transplant, too. In cool or cold weather they settle in fast. Warmer weather is more of a challenge.

Karen

Good point Karen, I wasn't thinking about those poor babies that get planted late (that I always have plenty of!). Typically after a couple of days of wilting those take off too. I try to get seedlings planted when rainy weather is in the forecast, some cloudy, drizzly days are great right after transplanting. Of course, that's luck of the draw, LOL.

Hey all,
I'm sorting seeds now for my January sowing. I was wondering if Morning Glories would wintersow well? I have so many different kinds from trades, I would like to see some of them blooming this year now that I have some time.

Merry Christmas All!!

I did them ... trays of them [got about 80 seedlings] the cold snap we had in April killed a few, so do not sow them too early.... but yes, you can winter sow them.

Merry Christmas.

Terese

Thanks!

TC, I'm in love with the Rudbeckia in one of your pictures. You have 3 varieties in one picture. It's the Rudbeckia with the orange/brown and yellow petals. I probably have it already but I has to tell you how pretty I think it is. I hope its one of the varieties I have WS.

like these?

and yanno... i have absolutely no idea 'who' this is, and most of my Rud seeds were probably mixed together... and i'm not even sure if they 'come true' from the seeds.

they are pretty though.

another one...

like i said... there are A LOT that i like.

but -- 99% of the plants 'out back' are WS'ed or direct sow, or fallen from the year before.
it looks chaotic at times... but very pretty with the variety of colors.

LoL I love it! Now, I feel the need to have a garden that has a pattern or theme. I love the cottage type garden that are a controlled chaos. I want a little bit of everything in my garden but I may need a field to have it that way. LoL

Merry Christmas everyone! Just popping in for a few minutes of peace and quiet to myself before the chaos starts.
I, too, had never heard of the "dunk" method. I will try it this spring.
Last year, I was so behind in planting out my babies, that I ended up just breaking them into hunks and plopping them into the ground. The fascinating thing was, the poor little straggly seedlings of salvia, 4 o'clocks and agastache that were the left over runts, grew into beautiful flowering plants. I planted them only because I felt guilty just tossing them out and not giving them a chance. Boy was I surprised. Love the WS'ing!

Merry CHRISTmas to everyone.

This day has been wonderful as I was able to spend time on SKYPE with son who is in Iraq right now.... the day couldn't get any better.

Hope this day is just as grand for everyone else.

Janet

Terese
I love chaotic.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Veronica

Oh, Janet, the very best gift of all was the visit with your son via Skype! So happy for you and I know you are still euphoric.

Merry Christmas to all. Now let's get busy with that winter sowing!

Angie

Janet, I am happy for you and your son. What an amazing gift!

Angie, I'm seriously going to have to find places to plant my winter sown flowers. LoL Hopefully, I will have lots of pictures this spring to share of healthy, beautiful flowers. I know most won't bloom the first year but I plan to throw in some annuals for a little color. If I am in zone 5, when do I WS the annuals? I'm sure I read it but sometimes I can only recall what I need to remember right now. LoL

Star of Yelta morning glories should winter sow well. Mine reseed every year in zone 5-6. Other varieties may be less resilient.

Checked my WS containers yesterday and spring has sprung in the winter! Poppies and dianthus sprouting in this weather. Maybe hi-30's yesterday w/ 20's at night.

Picture of poppy Black Peony...I also have poppies Thai Silk Rose and Jelly Beans coming up as well as dianthus Sooty and Idea Violet.I don't really start potting up or planting out until March. THREE MONTHS from now....I can't wait. Poppies ,pansies and violas will go out in Feb. though so maybe I can hold for that long...LOL

diamond: Start annuals in spring. I start them around late March, early April in zone 6. I've started some as late as early May. So for 5a I would think around mid April. Most of them germinate fast at first sign of warmth. Just be prepared to give them a little protection in case of frost.

Karen

Diamond: You'll be wonderfully surprised by your results and have flowers to fill in bare spots, new beds, and some to give to friends and neighbors!

For information regarding germination requirements, check out this link:

http://www.backyardgardener.com/tm1.html

Or you can simply use the plant guides here on DG for your annuals. If they require stratification or scarification, you'll need to know these things. Most of them can be wintersown, though, unless they're very tender tropicals or houseplants. I WS'd Clarkia Confetti last year, along with Nigella, Salvia viridis Palisades, which is supposed to be an annual, but I'm hoping it's perennial here. We'll see come spring!

The sticky at the top of the wintersowing forum has excellent information for first-time winter sowers, so be sure to read all of those. You're going to be amazed at your results! Trust us.

Peggy, Contratulations! I planted my poppies (oriental) a little late...on Dec. 21 :} I think you planted yours around the 10th. Will be watching over the next couple of weeks for sprouts. Same weather here 20-30ish nights and 40ish days.
Dennis

Yea...around the 8th or 10th.

This will be my second year of winter sowing. Last year I had success with about 25% of the seeds I put in. Does that sound about right, in general?

Got a couple of questions. I tossed last year's jugs into the yard shed with the lawnmower etc. Never washed them of residual dirt or algae, but they've sure been cooked during the hot days of summer. Can I just re-use them, or do I have to wash & sterilize them? I just figure nature doesn't sterilize anything, but then again I'm pretty darn new to gardening!

Also, my DH has what seems like a peculiar idea. He wants to try sowing in jugs with the lids on and NO holes at all. His theory is that the moisture you put in when you first sow the seeds will just stay there all winter, and he won't have to worry about watering during stretches like we just had, 3 weeks of bone-dry air, no precip whatsoever and frigid temps. Has anyone ever tried it this way? Personally I don't remember watering much last year, thinking that frozen soil doesn't need to be watered, until toward March-April when stuff started to thaw out. But he's got the scientific mind, not me, so I thought I'd run this by the group.

Crabby

My germination runs a lot higher than 25%, I'd say more like 80 to 90%. but I don't count seeds sown.

Are you talking about no holes in the top or the bottom or both? Never did that either, but I've never seen a plant than can grow without any drainage or any air. Also, seeds might rot with all that moisture, especially larger ones. I like sharp drainage and lots of air. Big containers like gallon jugs don't need much watering even in spring but mine get only morning sun.

I never sterilize WSing containers, but I don't like that algae stuff. If they had algae, I'd sanitize well with bleach, or get new jugs.

Karen

I agree with Karen about the necessity for drainage and air/moisture holes in WS containers. I've never watered in the colder months, especially when the soil mix is frozen. And later in the spring the air vents let spring rain in (or a gentle sprinkle from your watering can or hose.) You can generally tell if moisture is needed by the color and texture of the soil: dry soil is lighter in color than adequately moist soil, and sometimes pulls away from the sides of the jug or bottle.
I'd also worry that the seedlings might cook in the spring sun without ventilation holes. It can get pretty warm in there and the holes in the top let cooler air inside.

I used to bleach my milk jugs and plastic bottles before using them, but haven't for two years and can see no difference in germination. Mostly I discard the used ones after one season because I have to cut them up to get out my seedlings at planting time!

>>about 25% of the seeds I put in

are you referring to the amount of seeds per container... say 1oo seeds, 25 seedlings?
or 100 containers and about 25 containers with germination?

last year i had a lot of 'duds'. containers with zero germination... I think some of it had to do with seeds rotting, not enough holes in the bottom... some -- i have no idea why.

Some containers I had about 50 or 100 seeds... [ i will count the seeds if i can. small/dust like seeds, obviously I can't]
but may have gotten 1-5 seedlings. I usually track this in my spreadsheet.

as for the milk jugs, I only rinse mine out. Have never used bleach. and mine always get tossed at the end of the season because they are usually cut to get the seeds out, but the lids are always cut off -- so they would be unusable.

But i would think any with algae to clean out, if it is only dirt... you are just putting dirt back in it again - so why bother with cleaning it?

*sigh* I was pretty disappointed with last year's results, but I did pretty much what everyone else does after reading reading reading as much as I could here. So I don't know what to do differently except pray harder. :-)

I've shared your comments with DH but boy is he is stubborn about his ideas. I don't think I quite follow what he's really thinking so I'll just let him have at it and let y'all know what happens.

Crabby

I'm giving a general result. I had 3 containers of foxglove seeds that turned into chia pets, and quite a few others of rudbeckia, echinacea and other hardy perennials with just a couple of seedlings out of 15-20 seeds. I'm too lazy to count much!

Since this is a science I suppose I have to content myself with doing pretty much what I did last year, just one more time, so I have results to compare. The early spring weather really sucked -- FREEZING for the time of year -- last year, so I assume/HOPE that's one variable that will change.

Crabby
I didnt like my results WS for the first time this year. Like you I am going to try again. I dont think I put enough drainage holes in the jugs- one of several things I believe I did wrong. We also have had the wettest year on record.

What your husband wants to do works with cuttings such as Hydrangeas or Gardenias. I have used 2 liter coke bottles to start those cuttings. The bottles are never placed in the direct sun. If we are having a normal summer, the cuttings may "cook"-even out of direct sun-in July or August
Janie.

you'll need drainage holes but you can keep the lids on the keep the moisture in. Even when I sow my seeds in a sandwich bag, I cut some holes on the bottom.

Hi CrabgrassCentral (love your moniker):
Ya know, I think you're right to let your DH do his "closed container" thing--and you do the usual vent and drainage hole procedure--and compare! If you do some of the same seeds, you will have an experiment going! Keep us posted on the results of both.

Okay, you guys really have my attention. I have 16 women coming for bring-your-own-soil parties and have 9 jugs each ready for each of them. I have a lot of drain holes in the bottom and holes in the top for ventilation. I was thinking 30-40 seeds/jug (coneflowers, rudbeckia, easy flowers). Is that a good number or more?

I've read all I can on WS. Now I'm freaked after reading this that they may not germinate, though mostly I've read that you can't fail. Does anyone else find some of these threads contradictory to each other? I guess it's maybe a trial/error system to find what works in your area? I'm north of Kansas City an hour - hoping for good results with my ladies. If not, how embarrassing! (Worst case scenario, we'll have fun planting seeds.) Cynthia

I am amazed that Big Red has germination already but is it because of the climate? I was under the impression I would even have to check containers until early March? We still have snow here in northern Indiana. Once you see sprouts is that when you remove the lids or just crack open for more air?

Cynthia, I'm no expert on WS this will be my first time but I have been playing with seeds for a long time. There is no guarantees for 100 percent germination of all of your seeds. You can mimic the perfect conditons and environment but seeds still may not germinate due to something being wrong with the seeds. I'm always surprised by what grows easily from seed and what doesn't. I have started a lot of plants from seeds and you can have them in the same enviroment but only get a protion of them to germinate. It sounds like you have something planned that is going to be a lot of fun! I would enjoy the event. Even if some have success where others fail, you can trade with one another which may be a reason for another party. LoL

Cynthia... I've been reading your BYOS thing... sounds like fun.

I'd think any 'wild flower' type flower you shouldnt have a problem with germination.

here are my Cone Flowers from 2007 -- per my notes, i had 5 rows of 20 seeds. so there were 100 seeds in here.
Rudbeckias are another where i'd have good germination.

as for 30-40 seeds per gal... i think it also depends on the seed.

Take Poppies for instance.... you're not going to count them... they are dust.
Some seeds, you'd just take a 'pinch' and sprinkle it.

I guess you just use your best judgment.

It is sort of trial-N-error... but regardless, it's fun and it's fun to watch teh seedlings grow.... and you will be getting more ladies into winter sowing.

Our weather probably is not that different.... Just sow the seeds. stick them outside, and start looking for babies [weather depending] around March/April or so.

TC when u see sprouts do you vent or completely remove the lids?