California's new water deal

I understand the need to be conservative with water use. I hate to see anything go to waste, especially something as vital as water. But what I don't like to see is me and other like minded ones being careful with our water use, just so some developer can shoe-horn 50 more condominiums onto postage-stamp sized lots and make a million dollars. I don't feel compelled to save water for THAT!!!

AMEN!!!

The water conservation efforts here in L.B. have been very successful.
According to an announcement from the water district, our water usage in August was 19% below the 10 year average.

I think it's been very successful everywhere... this means 'they' can continue to build and charge higher water rates......not to be negative or anything...lol...

If all our water saving efforts could be guaranteed to be diverted to California's farmlands and people could see now fallow acres turned green with food crops, it would be much easier to get people on board to save water.

Yes, instead of converting everything to housing that requires more water!!

Not gonna happen......

Sherry, I know it's not likely, but if enough people raise hell about it and threaten with our votes, it's amazing what they'll do when their power base is threatened.

It has to start with letters to the editor of all the major newspapers and it goes from there. As unlikely as it seems, these power brokers can be neutered when the people use their voting rights to revolt.

(oops! did I go over the line with the AUP?)

This message was edited Nov 18, 2009 12:25 PM

It sounds like putting meters on a private well cold be considered a 'taking' under the Constitution. Most properties I know own their mineral rights and yes, water is considerd a mineral. Unless you bought in an area where the mineral rights are reserved or have been sold to someone else you own what is under the ground. Also there are riparian rights to conisder. My property has several wells for domestic water and a stream crosses it as well as a river which borders it. I use the well water for domestic uses and I have a dam on the stream (the stream is wholly on my property untill it dumps into the river), that I use to irrigate my fields, greenhouses and my personal plantings. I certainly won't give up my riparian and mineral rights without a fight.

Most people forget that Southern California is a desert. I have serious reservations that Northen California should support the growth in Southern California. If you don't have the water to support the growth you should not allow the growth.

This message was edited Nov 29, 2009 9:30 PM

I agree and if the entire earth cannot support the growth, people should stop procreating......

I don't think you will get much argument here, SeasonedWarrior.

I've done my part in curtailing population growth wcgypsy. Seems no one talks about ZPG (Zero Population Growth) anymore and we must keep in mind that there are many more egregious regios fo the world that could stand to be improved. The bithrate in the US 13.9 per 1000 compared to many coountries in Africa with birthrates in excess of 49 per 1000. There is a great chart showing countries ordered by birthrate. The crowding here in California is not due to birthrate but is as a result of people re-locating to nicer climes. After all isn't that why many of us (yes, I'm a transplant from Maine) are all here? It just doesn't get any better.

The chart for birthrates is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

No...I'm California born and if anyone misses what Southern California used to be, it's certainly me. California as it was is gone never to be retrieved and that includes Northern California as well. So I have to laugh when people talk about all of the homes in Southern California taking all of the water, it's not like we want the situation either. There's a good percent of the population who would have voted to close the borders 40 years ago and then perhaps we wouldn't have this water discussion......
edited to add that I laugh because I've been in Central California this week and have heard this same water discussion from people in their 80's who claim it as "their" water. I reminded them that they are originally from Texas, New Mexico, Missouri and even my father who's from Idaho claiming it as "his" water. Perhaps the Native Americans can rightfully claim it as "their" water.

This message was edited Nov 30, 2009 2:19 PM

Same here, Sherry. My folks came here almost 75 years ago from Pennsylvania. Talk about changes! Mom remembers smelling the orange blossoms everywhere. My dad built their first home in what was then Roscoe in the San Fernando Valley where everyone had a horse corral. I grew up near the coast in L.A. Co. when we still had farms down the street. We've seen such big changes just since moving to San Diego Co. - oops! - that makes me an invader, too, doesn't it? LOL

We don't like the growth rate here - but in an attempt to make lemonade - at least No. CA gets oranges, grapefruit, avocados, etc. from us in return for the water! ;-)

They may not for much longer...we'e losing too many groves down here and soon everything will probably be coming from Mexico or Chile.

Well said SeasonedWarrior.
In our case, which is much like yours, people have dammed the stream uphill of us, they've illegally dumped into it, and built through it.
It is my belief that we own the water/mineral rights not only to the creek, but also to any water we have in the ground beneath us. My DH's family earned the land the hard way. They homesteaded the place at least 100 years ago. They dry farmed for many years. We are frugal with our water use, (except in the gh, but even there it serves a good purpose) and use drip irrigation from our wells to water those trees.
DH is 3rd or 4th generation CA. I was transplanted here when I was 2 weeks old. I remember growing up in CA. It is fast disappearing and being prettied up and glossed over.
Part of the reason that we grow trees. Don't need more houses. We like our space and privacy too.
No talk yet of metering the wells here. I asked.
I remember Orange Groves in Santa Ana when I was a kid. I remember being able to play outside after dark and noticing all the fragrances in the air. It was a different world then, and a different place. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the government would take it upon themselves to curtail development, but it'll take a grassroots effort to really make it happen.
WIB,
SW

Oh thank you Sherry for wanting the border closed 40 years ago - I can stay since I have been here 50 years come Jan. from WI. We came to Sunnyvale and walked through the orchards to/from school, picking up plums on the way. Have lived since then in Santa Barbara, Contra Costa, Los Angeles, San Diego and now Riverside counties, so I can 'side' with lots of folks. My choice would be closer to the coast in ANY county from WA through CA. Dad was first generation born in this country and considers suburban living the best and uses (unfortunately) the term 'you sound like a farmer' like a slur when I speak of all our animals and wanting more gardening space/time.

Seasoned - looked at those charts and from what I have read, most European countries and the US would not even have birthrates that high if not for all the immigrants in even just the last 10 years. For us it is the latinos first and the Middle Easterners second who have the most children. In Europe it is the Middle Easterners. The Anglos alone are not even reproducing themselves with Italy having the lowest at 1.1 per couple. Then, there are so many more singles.

There are places that are wide open and relatively unpopulated all us complainers could move to, but let's face it, we like it here even with all the problems. But there are getting to be a few less things to like.

There are so many sides to an issue, aren't there? It's not just 'mine' and 'yours'.

I'm a recent immigrant to California and having come from Arizona, (where the population increases are largely due to CA migration) I understand your concern with growth. We all have our reasons for being here. Whether it's because of nativity, or as in my case, my son and his family live here and I lost my job in AZ.

I'm reminded of John McCain's response when he was accused of being a "carpetbagger" while running for Congress his first time in Arizona. He was asked where he was from. His response was that he'd grown up on military bases around the world, being the son of a military man and a career sailor himself, but the one place he'd lived longer than anywhere else was a prison camp in Hanoi Vietnam. No one questioned his residency again.

I am only a temporary resident here however. Lisa and I are buying 20 acres of land in eastern AZ that we plan to move to in just a few years. In the mean time, I'll do my best to make as little negative impact as possible.

We'd rather have you than a lot of natives, DP! Does this mean we'll never meet Mrs DP? Your point about AZ being invaded by former CA residents just proves Sherry's point above. Thank goodness some people don't want to live in the West and Southwest, or we'd fall into the ocean from the sheer weight of residents! LOL
Everybody came here from somewhere originally if we go back far enough.

You are exactly right K. Sherry's point is well taken. For me it's almost like I'm embarrassed to tell people I'm from somewhere else. And that's not because of anything anyone has said to me. It's because I understand the desire to stop the migration.

As to Mrs. DP. (that'd be Lisa) Of course you'll get to meet her. We'll still be here for a few more years. We're buying land in an "off-the-grid" place over near the New Mexico border. It'll take us some time to put in solar, a well, generator, trees etc. Lisa will be at the Spring round-up this time.

Good! And don't you feel embarrassed - you're just taking the place of someone who moved to AZ. :-)

Population growth is a necessary evil, I guess. I just think we (and our elected officials) need to do a better job at managing where we house that growth. I'd really like to see something done about urban sprawl especially in areas where there isn't enough water to sate the thirst of that growth.

Nor enough water to fight fires. Well said, GardenSox.

Well, when we built a house in Washington, the first comment I heard was the "The more Californians I meet, the more I like dogs...." Now, we have more than a few Washingtonians and Oregonians down here, but if we move back to Washington I'll still feel like I have to lie and say we're from somewhere else.
I'm afraid that I don't believe that population growth is a necessary evil....I don't see it as necessary.

Well Kathleen and Sherry, it looks like I'm gonna be your 'in-between' neighbor up there. I found a house about a mile up Mission Rd. toward Fallbrook. I'm not sure if it's in Bonsall or Fallbrook. It's close to the border of the two.

I just found out for sure that I'm getting it. I'll be able to take possession of it on the 15th and still have this house through the end of the month (year). It'll be nice to have both for a couple of weeks. It's on 16 acres, what used to be an olive orchard. Cool little house under a grove of Oak trees. That's a lot more my speed than 6 blocks from a freeway at the border of Vista and Oceanside.

Welcome to the neighborhood, Randy. Sorry about the 76. :-(

On Mission? Which side? Horses side or across the road? Trying to think of which place it would be. True, driving 76 to work will be a bummer, depending on your hours. Fallbrook's pretty cool in most respects....
Welcome .....

Whooo hooo, DP! I knew Lisa was coming after the Holidays, but this is great news! Not that where you live now is bad, but you'd have room to breathe!
We used to have lots of olive orchards here in Menifee. Now they are all gone, except a few trees along one dirt road. You'll have a blast there.
I love AZ, and a lot of my friends have moved there. Mostly, because they are politically incorrect.
Loved the John McCain quote. Being a Marine Corps brat, I get it! Maybe why I respect the man so much. He went through so much.
I was transplanted to CA over 50 years ago too, I wouldn't mind the immigration so much, if they'd go elsewhere than CA.
People move to where they can feed their families. Many migrations to CA throughout history. What I hate is they have their "anchor child", and send their money home to Mexico, instead of spending it here. Impoverished our state. Lately, I've heard folks in Mexico are sending money here to their relatives in CA.
I can't blame people for wanting to feed their kids. I do think that if they move to a new country, they should pay taxes, learn the language, and send their kids to college to become productive members of society.
WIB,
SW

East side of Mission about a mile up from the 76, just before you go up the long hill. Cool little house.....tiny, but we're not very big ourselves. It has room where I want it to be...and that's outside. The commute won't be bad. I start work at 6 am so I'll be leaving around 5:30. I get off at 2 and made that trip yesterday at that time. It was only a 15 minute drive. At least I don't have to turn left off the 76 without a light. LOL!! (Kathleen knows what I'm talking about)

I know exactly what you're talking about in going to Kathleen's. I have no problem getting there, but when leaving I just turn right toward Vista and right on River Rd and then turn right on Puerta de Sol (partially gravel road), up to Olive Hill, turn left and follow Olive Hill Rd around then down to come out by the High School signal at Olive Hill and Mission. Of course, that would be waaaaay out of the way for you to get back home from being at Kathleen's....lol...I don't go to Kathleen's often...lol...and I NEVER go to Vista. Need I say I hate 76? We voted the taxes to widen it many years ago......You're right, your hours are good for not fighting the traffic. We won't even go that way when heading up the coast. From here we take the Sleeping Indian route then River Rd, etc. If something is in Vista I try to make sure I can't get it elsewhere, but then we're about 3 miles closer than you for heading to Temecula...everything in the world I need is there......and I love the back road to get there, Rainbow Canyon since most of what I need is out on 79 S.......
edited to add that I'm with you on that...the land is more important to me than the house. Hmm, are you back up a slight 'hill' drive by a two story weathered wood house?

This message was edited Dec 3, 2009 9:19 AM

Yep. But the house is back down the other side of the hill and on the right.

Got lots of water up here. They build pipelines for gas and oil - how valuable is water? I've always wished BC and the western states would become a country. I-5 is a perfect corridor for a line. We've just had 3 weeks of solid rain - wish I could give you some. Actually, I wish I could live in California. If only I was born a few miles south.

LOL...actually, I wish I could live in B.C.! We wonder the same thing about a water pipeline...why not?

DP, I thought that was about a mile. My friend Sofia-Kathleen owned the weathered wooden one, but left for Canada a few years ago. You've moved here just in time for the Christmas Parade! It's not a requirement though...lived here 26 years and still have never watched the parade....lol...that's okay, I don't go to the Avocado Festival either.

DH just sent a letter (along with some other neighbors) trying to get the left turn lane continued up to our road - they're not interested, of course, because of the upcoming rebuild. Construction on the highway starts next month - but of course, ours is the last of three parts. At that time, we will have a signal on the extension that goes to the new 76. The existing 76 route will be blocked off just east of us - there are a few houses there that need egress/ingress.

So, in the meantime, as Sherry says, the best way is to go around and attack our road from the east. We have friends that won't do it any other way. I try to tell people this, but they will insist on using Mapquest, etc., and not pay attention to my warnings.

Your road is scary dangerous, KC, keep writing and being a PITA, about the safety concerns you have. I know that road too. Scary. I've been getting the road dept. to make some changes out front of our place on Scott. Like the double yellow line, a slightly slower speed limit (still working on that one), side street signs to let people flying by, know that they are coming up on a side road. It doesn't hurt if you can get all the reports of accidents right in front of your place from the Sheriffs dept. When people die, politicians listen. Breaks my heart how many have died out in front of our place over the years. I feel better knowing that all my letters, complaints, concerns are listened to. We've been waiting for years for our road widening, and it doesn't look like it is going to happen any time soon.
Found a tripod, going to make my own speed trap thingy, hopefully it will slow down some of those idjets who think it's just a part of the freeway and drive accordingly.
Hopefully, when they do widen the road, we'll get the fire hydrant DH and I had to pay for.
Let it rain!
WIB!
SW

They said the number of fatalities and accidents "don't support" any changes. They're not going to fix anything now, since the re-do of the highway is so close. :-(
When it's done, the problem will be gone, thank goodness.

Sherry, I found out about the Christmas parade yesterday from a co-worker of mine who lives in Fallbrook. I immediately called my son and claimed "dibs" on my granddaughters for Saturday evening. (I also invited their parents along) They may pass on it just to get some Mom and Dad time. I heard that Budweiser sent a wagon and a Clydesdale team to the parade last year. It'd be worth it to me for that alone. My friend lives just a few blocks from the parade route so we'll be able to park at his house and walk down to it.

Clydesdales, oooohhh, I love those horses! We're having dinner with friends, so won't be able to make it. Will you take pictures, DP? Maybe some shots of the kids enjoying it all?