toxic plant list

Is there any interest in putting together a practical toxic plant list- one that is more than just a mind-numbing list of all toxic plants, most which are of little consequence and hardly toxic at all? Some plants are literally deadly toxic, and I think THOSE are the plants most gardeners might want to know about. Such a plant list would not only list the plant, but the toxic principles, symptoms and suggestions on what to do about them. Also it would contain some animal toxicity information. Such a list would put at ease those growing Poinsettias (which are so mildly toxic that they shouldn't really be on any toxic plant list) and highlight Oleander and Castor Bean, two plants growing all over my neighborhood with obvious little regard for their incredibly toxic and deadly potential.

I'd be interested in that.

I would too, sounds like a good plan.

Palmbob: That's a great idea! A list of that type would be a huge help to everyone! I like the idea of having the info include toxicity to pets as well as humans. Will it be permanently located in the Guides and Information section?

A toxic plant list/guide would be very usefull.

that's the thing I don't know about... where to access it on Davesgarden?

What about the one that was already started by Melody? Take a look here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1036597/

Marilyn

This message was edited Sep 10, 2009 11:31 PM

that is just a list of lists though... and a forum, too. I was thinking more of a resource page with a more detailed list of plants arranged in either serverity of toxicity (though that is a very subjective designation), type of toxic principle, or some other meaningful way to organize these plants. It would be nice to set it up in such a way that many can add to the list, but have it like the plantfiles where type of toxin would have to filled in, severity of toxin (based on LD50 or some other objective parameter), method of getting toxin (dermatologic, oral, ocular etc.), animals affected as well as its effects on humans, and some comments on likelihood of toxicity (does plant taste good or bad, is it commonly available or not, will a cat or dog eat this, or avoid it like the plague etc.). Then such a list could prove useful to someone who might want to grow this plant.

Currently many Euphorbia species have an editor's note warning about toxicity of all plants in this genus.. when realistically Euphorbias are far from the being the most toxic either in terms of severity as well as practicality (they are less commonly grown that say Oleander which IS a serious toxic plant). Now THAT would be a excellent genus to add some editorial warnings about its serious danger. I doubt there are too many serious toxicity incidents from Euphorbias throughout the country, but probably a lot from Oleander. Death from Oleander exposure is a real and likely possibility. Death from Euphorbia is extremely unlikely. And that's just a simplistic example of the sort of information people should know and get out of a toxic plant source... not jus a long list of plants that may or may not realistically be toxic.

If I may interject here... Palmbob and I discussed this briefly before, and I suggested that he post here to see if Admin would be open to the suggestion of a toxic plant database. I think this all stems from my PlantFile comments as to the toxicity of certain plants.

I am the one that brought about the admin discussion that if we can allow a check mark in the danger category for an entry in PlantFiles, then we should also be able to offer supporting comments explaining why it is marked as such, and suggest that gardeners, parents and pet owners look further for more information. I take full responsibility for that, as I've been the one that purchased resources to provide this information via the PlantFile entries. But, what is being added to the PlantFile entries isn't something that can't also be found elsewhere on the internet.

I have been working on them as time permits, and no, I don't have an agenda as to doing the most toxic plants first. I have about 50 plant types that I have identified and I'm working on those first, and once those are completed, I will move on to others. I work on adding that information to recent submissions daily, and as I have time, I work on adding it to prior entries. It's a volunteer, manual process, and not something that is going to be completed in a short amount of time. That's why they aren't showing up on all entries immediately.

I would certainly welcome any dmails, with supporting references, for suggestions to other plants that should have a toxicity comment added. And if Dave and Terry see that a toxicity database would be a better approach, then I'm certainly open to that also.

Palmbob, your conscientious caring is noted and appreciated. I wonder if Plantifiles isn't the best place to put this sort of information, in one depth or another. There is an entry of "danger" in each Plantfile entry already. Perhaps Dave and crew could expand that section to include practical toxicity levels, to whom/what the toxity applies, method of intoxication : skin, ingestion, inhalation etc, level of toxicity or practical risk in handling that particular plant/plant parts. Perhaps individual PF entrants could be responsible for entering that info up front? Provision of some reference websites to assist in making their entries would be good in a master toxic plant list area.

Maybe a catch-all Toxic Plant list in Plantfiles as a general category reference and then more detailed info added in at each plant entry?

We ask a lot of Dave, but I like the idea and thank you for bringing it up. It has value.

Hee hee, Joan, (with whom I've spoken about the very gentle nature of dahlias and with whom I took mild umbrage at her calling them toxic or dangerous) and I cross posted. Your volunteer hours are very much appreciated by all of us.

The problem with the 'danger' section in the plant files is there is no more information except whether a plant is toxic or not. The word toxic is just way too broad a description. Is a Poinsettia toxic? Yes. HOW toxic? Hardly at all- certainly not toxic enough to worry about exposure to it by a child or pet... maybe you shouldn't rub the sap in your eye or you might be sore for a while.... Is Olealander toxic? Yes. HOW toxic? DEADLY toxic. I leaf can kill a child if eaten. 10 leaves eaten can kill an adult human. Breathing in burned plants can cause serious if not fatal respiratory situation. The sap of one sent my friend to the hospital. That stuff is Nasty! But you would have no clue what-so-ever reading the plantfiles other than what comments growers who have entered information have put in. Unless someone happens to put in some useful comments under that plant, the gardner really is no more educated than they were before reading that section.

I really think there needs to be a separate area in DAvesgarden for toxicity information. I am just not sure where/how to present it/organize it.

I think you said it in your first sentence. The information needs to be practical and easily accessible. A format similar to the journal maybe, where we would see the list first. Could be different categories for very dangerous, and only mildly toxic, etc.

Thanks for the clarification, palmbob. Much appreciated. Once it's decided where this list should be, perhaps a good starting point would be to combine all the lists already made by the various organizations in the above link. Better than reinventing the wheel!

I agree that, while the PlantFiles has a "Danger" section for each entry, it is a great idea to have an additional separate list of toxic plants. I think more people will check the list than look in PF. I don't think they know or remember that the "Danger" section is in PF already. I know I didn't.

I would think your information would have to be so up to date and accurate so you would not court lawsuits if someone followed an entry, put it in their yard and then someone got sicker than it stated you would get. Maybe the entries made by membership would have to be vetted hard before posted.

Kell, that's why the editorial comments that have been added so far have the following at the end.

I know Joan but I was talking about the separate database that was being discussed that would outline the toxicity in detail.

I am certainly not saying to remove the danger section, or the comments... but in addition, another spot devoted specifically to toxic plants would be nice, for those who want to know more (a link to this list could be on each page with a plant that has a toxin clicked off).

I'd very much appreciate a more detailed listing or database with toxic plant warnings. It's hard to find reliable information on just *how* dangerous a particular plant might be -- cherry leaves are technically toxic, for example (they contain cyanide!), but there is no danger in putting a few of them into the bottom of a pickle jar.

It is a good idea, and I'm watching this thread.

We do have some constraints that have already been pointed out, such as liability (the more specific and "authoritative" our information, the more someone may believe they can rely upon it. If we overlooked a plant and didn't give adequate warning, could someone try to hold us responsible for not warning them?)

Within PlantFiles, we also have to balance all the information we're trying to present to readers.

We regularly receive requests to add specific nativity/provenance information for each plant, to expand the seed collection and/or propagation section with more details, to add more zones (USDA heat map, Sunset, etc.); to add additional details on bloom period, descriptions of blooms, foliage, culinary uses, etc.

Those are all good ideas. But if we attempted to delve deep into that much detail for each plant, we'd quickly become overloaded, from trying to collect and verify that much information, to overwhelming readers with too much detail.

So...we're watching, and encourage everyone to keep talking--there may be a really good solution that emerges ;o)

that's why I think such a list should NOT be in plantfiles, but in a separate location

In PlantFiles, we have to have some idea what we are looking for and would have to look up each plant individually. A list, with some sorting capabilities, would allow us to scan and see if we have any of these plants in our house or yard. Then, if the entry could be opened to expand on the information, that would be helpful. This all seems like a lot of work, but since we're asking...

I like having the toxic notation at each listing in PF, but I too was hoping there could be an extensive alphabetical reference list of plants someplace. Not a forum for chat but just a list of plants, their toxic properties, level of toxicity and whether they are toxic to humans, pets or both.

Could there be some sort of disclaimer at the top of the list regarding DG not being liable for informational content?

sounds good to me

for right now, this is the only way people can find out about HOW toxic some plant is on this web site... see the latest comments on this page (the writer goes a bit far by saying all Sagos should be cut down, but you get the point)... yet if you read the danger section, it creates very little to no impact as thousands upon thousands of plants in the plantfiles say the same bland thing- parts or all are toxic... but no clue HOW toxic... I have to agree, Cycas revolutas are extremely toxic... for dogs, these have to be near the very top of the list of dangerous plants to have in your yard should you have a dog that likes to eat plants. It is for these people and plants like these that there really needs to a be a toxic plant list in Davesgarden somewhere.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53327/

I notice in PF it says that the seed is poisonous if ingested, but for many years I've heard that ALL parts of this plant are toxic.

http://www.floridata.com/ref/C/cyca_rev.cfm

I truly believe we need this. As a pet owner it sure would be nice to know just HOW toxic something is. Is one ingested leaf deadly? 5 leaves? I've rid the house of a couple of plants thinking they were highly toxic just to learn later that a dog would have to eat the entire plant to maybe just get a tummy ache.

I agree, it sure would be nice to have an informational list of plants and their toxicity. I know nothing about the law, but maybe there could be a disclaimer at the top stating that the list was for informational purposes only and that DG accepted no liability for the content of said list ... or something like that? And, who would be willing to compile the list for posting? Would there be a Toxic Plant Forum, for chatting and sharing information as well?

Maybe I should go back through all the posts and see if this has already been discussed. I just think a list of that sort would be a huge asset for everyone.

If this comes into play, I think the plants should be listed by toxicity rather then alphabeticaly. The most toxic being at the top of the list.

I don't know...I'd rather a search by plant. most people know what plants they have...would be nice to search for, say, Hoya, and get toxic or not info.

Good idea Ginger .. LOL, I'm just old and it's easier for me to find something when it's in alphabetical order. Maybe it could be listed with stars or something for level of toxicity, say the higher the toxicity gets five little red stars, less toxic less stars etc?

Geesh, I do sound old don't I?

One neat feature we find on other web sites is the ability to sort a database by column. For example:
- sort by increasing, or by decreasing level of toxicity,
- sort by latin name,
- sort by common name,
- sort by USDA zone,
- sort by toxicity to what kind of organism (adults, infants, household pets, cattle, birds, etc.),
- sort by what part of the plant is toxic, etc.

No matter how many collumns are included in the final database, each collumn could be sortable, therefore becoming very useful to a wide range of people.

I'm just brainstorming here.
Sylvain.

Lee Anne, do you mean including it in each PF listing? That would be good, but I've seen some folks posting in the past and asking for suggestions on plants that aren't toxic to kids and pets, and unless someone knows a specific plants toxicity, wouldn't be able to recommend any particular plants.

I wasn't thinking of having to do a search (see what I mean about getting old and lazy)? I was thinking of just a static list somewhere on site (like at Guides and Info) with a list of plants and details with which part (s) are toxic and the levels of toxicity, but I guess that could all be incorporated into listings in PF.

Sylvain: Great brainstorming too, I might add! Great ideas!

Lin, I wasn't meaning include it in Plantfiles...I meant have it as a separate database but to be also searchable by plant name.

Ok, I understand ... it just took me awhile, LOL. It would probably be a huge undertaking for Dave & Co., but it sure would be an asset to DG!

I'm in favor of such a list on DG. I'm a new gardener and since I have dogs, I want to make sure I have a garden that is safe for them. I think Ginger_H's suggestion of listing the plants by toxicity is a good one, but I think that in addition the list should be sortable by plant name as well. Personally, I'd rather be able to identify toxic plants from a list and remove them from consideration when planning my garden than finding a plant that I like and then having to research it, on PF for example, to see if it were toxic. I agree with what others have said about the benefit of having this information in one place. Yes, there are lists on the internet, but they do not give the type of detailed information that I think we're talking about having on the DG list.

Sarah

Take grapes for instance...I've heard they were harmful to dogs. DH heard it too. Now, every time one of us drops a grape he does some seriously dangerous Dick Van Dyke routines trying to grab them off the floor before the dogs get them. He's gonna break his neck some day...but nowhere does it tell us HOW toxic grapes are...will one grape hurt them? or does it take 20?

Here's a link to my article about food toxins for pets... I don't go into any technical details (since I don't know them) but i do discuss what little I know about grape toxicity

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/414/

Thanks for that Geoff!! I don't know how I missed it first time around.