They seem so cheap. One site says not to plant until spring as they will try to grow immediately.
Has anyone tried planting them mid-late fall in zone six or seven?
(I assume orientals should not be planted in fall from what I read.)
are pre-cooled lilies really a bad idea?
If you are buying precooled bulbs now, they are probably from the southern hemisphere and are usually grown in a green house for cut flower sales.
Lily bulbs are never dormant and should not be held for long periods of time before planting. They will grow whether planted or not.
We did that once, it was a disaster. The bulbs had been from the previous summer harvest and stored in the cooler until the next winter, we planted in winter (zone 7), they grew, got frostbit, got botyrtis and died back for the season before spring. They would have all died except they were large(an OT). As it was they had to grow for 2 more growing seasons to bloom, one to recover what they lost and one to reach bloom size again.
Precooled bulbs are mass produced for the cut flower industry to be forced into bloom at all times of the year then thrown away. Quality control is not very good either, virus and wrong varieties are very common.
that was so good to find out buggy. thanks for a detailed explanation of what can happen to this kind of bulb.
Well the other thing I forgot to mention is that fall planting is much better for us since we get ZERO (usually) summer rain here and can get very hot sometimes in March or April, so spring planting of lilies isn't good for us, they just do not have a good root system developed before the heat hits. We also tend to be mild in the winter and rarely have very cold weather, just rain. Precooled lily bulbs in the spring planted where they can get better care are probably fine. I have gotten a few precooled lilies that were dead in the middle, the middle section turned brown while the outer scales were white and healthy, I think due to cooler storage problems so that is something to watch for.
buggy, perhaps you could shed some light on this, aren't all the lily bulbs offered in spring considered precooled, since they are stored in coolers? I'm wondering, as it seems precooled bulbs in fall is a bad thing (for gardeners), but in spring a given.
at what time of the year are most lilies harvested buggy? and are they grown in the ground until they are dug?
Lilies are harvested in the late summer or fall, cooled at about 35F until they acquire enough chilling hours to pop into growth immediately when temperatures rise, then stored frozen (about 28F) until sold. Keeping them slightly frozen stops them from acquiring any more chilling units, holds them as "dormant" as they can be and makes them available for forcing all year. Yes it is good for those who cannot plant until spring, but I did lose several hundred lilies when we were moving here having stored them in the cooler at work during a 500 year flood so the power was off for many days, it was warm and balmy (why we flooded) in the winter. The bulbs were dead in the centers, outside scales looked good. I had received a few purchased bulbs like that also which leads me to believe storage temperatures caused it and avoid buying spring lilies now. Also spring planted lilies here do terrible and require extra care which just isn't possible for me to provide. Even with extra care they lilies do not have the vigor of fall planted ones so do not each their full potential for another year. In some cases where people do not have the right soil or climate, container grown lilies planted in the spring are their best choice, they do need extra large pots and to have the pots shaded and protected from high temperatures.
Of course there are problems with fall planting, we can be very warm here very early and lilies have come up in Feb. and March only to be frost bit and have subsequent systemic botrytis infections. This can be avoided with mulch but since Logging has been so vilified and outlawed here in Oregon we can no longer afford to mulch. We also have severe pest problems here that make mulch a bad idea. Mulch also provides insulation for the bulbs from severe temperature swings like we have been plagued with this season. Even with irrigation it seems the growth of the bulbs is delayed by about 1 year (at least the last 2-3 bad years we have had). What I mean is it takes 2 years with irrigation to produce the same size bulb we used to get in 1 year with mulch and no irrigation. Now I spray heavily with copper in the late winter and spring since that also helps prevent frost damage as well as kill fungus spores.
do many places offer lilies in the fall? seems like you get the best variety in the spring at most places?
Most growers offer lilies in the fall, some offer the later maturing ones (like orientals) in the spring only. It is much easier to dig lilies in the winter after all those stem roots have died. There is a better selection because they also have the fall leftovers to sell. Most lily retailers are importers, not growers and they get the lilies in for the spring even though they may have been harvested the previous Sept.
really. are you the only person that grows their own? i was involved in an amaryllis co-op so didn't get to order lilies again this year.
There are a few others. The one that comes to mind is Summerchase. They are the growers of the former Hartle-Gilman
summerchasegardens.vstore.ca
I find fall planted lilies settle in much better here too, typically aren't stunted like some spring planted bulbs. Selection has kept me purchasing bulbs in spring though, and I've had really good luck with them. Our springs tend to be cool, so getting them in the ground early seems to be the key. Northern gardeners often have better luck with spring planting with the bulbs having a growing season to settle in before harsh winter sets in, besides having already frozen soil when fall bulbs are shipped.
Speaking of mulching, I'm not sure how I should be going about it. We have summers that tend to by hot and dry (this summer was mild and rainy, not the norm), and 2 or 3 months of fairly consistent cold (in the 30s, with occasional drops to 0, and often with a few days in the 40s-50s thrown in). Moisture is pretty consistent fall through spring. I typically try to keep beds mulched year round, but that keeps soil in the garden from freezing as fast as surrounding soil. That's been a good thing in some respects, allowing me to overwinter some marginal plants in the ground, and to plant clearance bulbs in early winter. I'm concerned that it may also stimulate Lilies to sprout earlier in spring, which I'd prefer to avoid- the later, the better here, with spring freezes we can get. I think it may be better for colder zones to mulch at one time of year, and warmer zones another (?), but Kentucky is sort of in the middle climate wise. Any recommendations?
buggy, just curious after you mentioned time to produce a particular sized bulb above, how long does it take to produce those grapefruit to cabbage head sized bulbs?
It takes years to get them that big, from the looks of the seedling bed I would say about 3-4 years from planting a 1inch bulb out under good conditions, that bed gets 2X the amount of water as the other lilies since it is where other plants are that would like about 3X that much water. The OT hybrids grow faster and can double in size every year. That also depends on having good sandy soil. We used to have a season from mid-March through Oct, lately our springs have been unusually cold so they have been starting later.
We used to keep all the lilies mulched all year and generally had mild winters. Sawdust and bark mulch repels water so this kept them dryer in the fall (and delayed cooling) and cooler and wetter into the spring and summer so didn't cause them to sprout too early, bare soil warms up faster and we do have problems with them coming up too early in the winter if it is a warm one. We also have more weed problems without mulch. Since we are mild in winter we have winter annuals as well as other annuals and perennials and they germinate and grow all winter. And spring, and summer and fall.................
For areas that want the lilies to come up earlier in the spring mulch can be removed in the spring to warm up the soil and replaced in the summer or fall for protection, that is a lot of work since you have to be more careful when the shoots are up. It is easier to sow a low-growing ground cover annual for mulch in the summer to keep them cool and lets face it, Lilies out of bloom are BORING. I like portulaca and ice plant for that (in my containers) since those are very sun and drought tolerant and bloom all summer. You would have to use something else for shady areas.
And for those lilies that sprout way too early in spring (some longiflorum hybrids) I have gone out and spread 2 inches of mulch over their stupid noses when they do that and that has worked to save them from frost. Plus a stern talking to about just what time of year it is.
Lisa, thank you sooo much, that makes it clear to me now :-) I think year round mulch is the best idea for my area, slows the cooling of the soil, but keeps it cool longer in spring and hopefully retards sprouting. LO hybrids are notorious for sprouting way too early here too (I think it was February this year), tossing straw over them kept them safe for the most part.
I like the "stern talking to" part ~ and somtimes it works! ;)
Oh, yeah, I did that too, LOL.
Very good information, Buggy, thank you. :)
can large lily bulbs live without any water thru the summer? i didn't say thrive but will they live and bloom again?
In '07 rain stopped in May and didn't return till September (or it may have been later than that?), and the Lilies I had in unwatered beds returned beautifully. I'm sure they were accessing some water, but it was scant, and everything else was crispy, but the Lilies didn't miss a beat. However just dry in a pot, they wouldn't survive as long.
that's what i wanted to hear neal. just curious but what were your temps at that time?
Yes they will do well without water if they get soaked in the early spring and are mulched. We never watered when we were producing cut flowers, everything was mulched and the soil was raised beds of clay, so it held water a looooong time. One year the last day of rain was May 6 (longer for my lilies-it didn't rain at my place that day) and the next rain was Nov. 6. I don't remember how hot is was, I only remember the dates because my truck was totaled that day, in another town by someone from my town (you know that small world saying) and the Xmass tree growers get really concerned when the fall is dry-makes for dusty and crispy trees.
Needless to say the lilies were fine. I thought I would dry up and blow away though.
do you think they like clay soil buggy?
Barb, seems our temps were pretty typical that drought season, July and August are when we get temps in the upper 80's, 90's, and a few days around 100. We get some of those typical southern summer days, just not for the duration that y'all have to contend with down there.
well that's the thing...........if i have 2 months of triple digit temps nonstop without any rain i am wondering which lilies would have a harder time with that. asiatics seem to do fine. but the la's and ot's don't seem to do as well for me. any ideas?
No they do not like clay soil, we raised the beds and amended it with 50% sawdust and let it cook a season before planting, then they were mulched and top dressed every year so the soil was very nice, but the bulbs never got as big as they do here in sandier stuff.
The older OT's grow like weeds (or trees) and I no longer dig them, they are too big and it is too hard to wrestle 50lb clods of mud out of the ground, loaded onto the truck and wash them. If I ever get some one else to dig them I will get them into ground that is very sandy and never watered, as it is just skipping fertilizer and mowing them down isn't enough to stunt them. All the lilies grow well here except the Trumpets, our soil is very acidic so I have started liming them, the L. henryi types do fine in the acidic soil. I suspect your temperatures are too high, do you have some of the older OT's like Scheherazade, Black Beauty or Silk Road? The newer ones look and act more like orientals which hate heat. In fact most of the lilies out there are for cut flower markets and do not always perform well in the real world. If you haven't tried the older OT hybrids give them a go, The Lily Garden has a great selection and breeds and grows their own.
http://www.thelilygarden.com/
I have not been all that impressed with LA hybrids. I have a couple of very old ones that I like very much, but the newer ones just haven't really impressed me.
no i don't have any of those. although i think i did put them in the ground at some point. i had one oriental come up this year but the foliage looked washed out and puny compared to the asiatics. some of the orienpets do grow here.
and where do they grow the flowers that the florists use? they are so perfect.
In this country, I think most cut flower production is in California. Lots of cut Lilies also come from South America (Chile, Ecuador, Columbia), Holland, and New Zealand to name a few. They're grown with protection from the sun and weather, and shipped in bud, so the buds/blooms remain unblemished.
so are they grown under a greenhouse?
http://www.ncation.com/default.asp?cid=16&weid=12&skn=17.p&cacheserver=False&a=public_browse&s_cs=sec**lilies&page=1&s_subsec=LA-HYBRID - ASI-FLORUM LILIES
here is ednie's link. they are precooled. so what can i expect if i order them now? are these most likely from this summer's harvest?
I'd only plant precooled bulbs in spring. They'll be inclined to sprout immediately upon exposure to warmer temps.
oh, forgot to say the bulbs are probably from the southern hemisphere, where it's spring about now. So probably from autumn harvest there (March or thereabouts?).
well where can you get freshly dug bulbs for fall planting at wholesale prices? i may not make it this year but i would really like to have a fall lily co-op next year.
The closest thing to wholesale prices from a real grower would be the regional lily societies. They purchase from the real growers and sell to members and some sell to the public. These are the best bulbs at the nicest prices.
http://www.lilies.org/us-regional-lily-societies.html
i never thought to look for one in texas. i'm off to see. thank you.
Barb, I participated in a co op (not on DG) where The Lily Garden was the vendor. More expensive than Ednie by a long shot, but big savings compared to their catalog prices. Like bulbs that were priced $10-17 each in the catalog for $5-8 each. So wholesale prices, just on higher end varieties. If you're looking to try some primo varieties, that may be worth a shot.
they don't have one in texas. one never sees lilies here to speak of. i will look at the lily garden neal. i may do better staying with the cheaper varieties in case they all croak after 3-4 years. i haven't grown them long enough to really know. steve over in ft. worth has beautiful lilies i think and has had them for a long time.
The Pacific Northwest Lily Society does two sales a year and although I am not a "local" I still am a member because one year some lady named pard lead me to the place and I haven't been the same since. They mail order their bulbs, so it is really quite nice for me. The prices are good and you just never know what nice surprises they might offer and at a very good price too. It might be something worth a try.
They don't have it updated quite yet for this fall's sale, but I would expect it any day.
http://www.pnwls.org/id21.html
Disclaimer: I am guilty only of addicting mags to the PNWLS and their sales. She has herself to blame for lily addiction.
There should be an announcement out soon to members for the fall sale. It is usually out by the end of September, once all of the arrangements with the growers are made.
One good thing about the way they do it now is that you can actually see the types of lilies that are offered and the prices right there on-line. The PNWLS is one of the most fun lily shopping experiences ever! Trust me. Would I ever steer you wrong mamajack? ^_^ Lol.
From the PNWLS website, regarding the bulb sale:
Assisting Pam (and your Webmaster!)was Tracey N., who provided the online photo links with descriptions for our sale lilies, and many of the great photos are Tracey's own work. Tracey's husband, Pat W., also provided essential technical skills and advice. We could not have done any of this without them . . .
Way to go Tracey (and Pat)!
These societies simply can't run without its members willing to help out.