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He is so beautiful! glad Mama is eating.

Not picking on you, Dave. Just trying to provoke folks here in general to think about the sometimes unintended consequences of feeding and providing nest boxes. I seldom see HOSP outside of neighborhoods. Drawing Bluebirds into areas with HOSP's with nesting boxes is bound to cause conflict and as you know the Bluebirds always lose. Something folks need to think about before putting up boxes.

Dave - I am horrified to learn of your lovely Papa blue and his demise. Very glad you got rid of that HOSP though.
How exciting this story of th New Blue and the courtship is. I only wish I could hear that singing. I too hope for an uneventful and fruitful summer there at your Bluebird homes. Many of us have learned so very much from you Dave and will continue to watch for your updates and of course, more pics!.

Sheri

I understand Red and you are right, but HOSP control is chapter one in the Bluebird Hosts Handbook. HOSPs seem to be everywhere people live. However, I live in a new development and I didn't see a HOSP in this neighborhood until several years after I had been hosting bluebirds. This year, for the first time, I considered taking my nestboxes down because of the growing HOSP population. Despite my best efforts the day will come, I am afraid. Better not to host them at all than to set them up for certain death.

Let me add that I also cringe when I see nestboxes mounted on trees or fences and without baffles. I want to go up to those people and tell them how to do it properly and sometimes I do. I usually come away amazed at how little people know (or care) about preditors, or HOSPs. Too often these badly placed boxes are also traps for the poor birds who nest there.

Certainly, there is a lot more to hosting bluebirds than simply putting up a nestbox in your backyard.

This message was edited May 30, 2009 7:01 PM

This message was edited May 31, 2009 2:01 AM

Thank you Sheri. I hope so too.

I haven't yet looked at my thread Dave. I was going to post some photos I took this a.m. both tree swallow and bluebird related, but saw your thread first. My stomach absolutely dropped when I read your news. When you go back to my thread you'll see why. I won't take up space in your thread about it. But, I'm truly sorry to hear of papa's death.

Red - The eastern bluebird is the New York state bird. They were abundant at one time, nearly extinct, and with nesting boxes erected and monitored throughout the state they have made a significant comeback. Unfortunately, house sparrows are pushing out bluebirds and tree swallows - both native to this area.

House sparrows are everywhere here - neighborhoods and box buildings alike. I really thought long and hard about putting up houses this year. But I decided to give it a try. I am not feeding the bluebirds, but I have enticed them with nesting boxes.

If you had not seen it, do you think you would have noticed it was a different male, or just assume it was Papa? Does it seem this one is going to take care of these eggs or start a new nest?

Red....my experience with HOSP is similar to Dave's. I have lived here for 7 years and have had bird boxes for 3. I never saw a HOSP here...not even in the winter....until OTHER birds started to use my boxes. It is almost as if the HOSP stalk/follow our native birds to compete for housing. Now, in Hyannis in and around the commercial development, there are HOSP and starlings everywhere and nary a native songbird in sight. If we do nothing, we will end up with fewer and fewer native birds.

Good point sacarv. Hosp do seem to look for trouble.

Dave,

What an unexpected pleasant and amusing surprise to hear about a new male arriving so quickly. I'd like to think that Papa himself sent the new boy in! :-)

I'm surprised to hear that the nest is in the Gilbertson. I thought you took it down… Interesting that she loves it so much. I read that house sparrows don't favor the Gilbertson.

I guess even through the sadness, life goes on in a very mysterious and wondrous way.

GP: I would have been able to tell the difference right away. Probably no one else would have. When you get as involved with individual birds for as long as I did with him, you just know, in much the same way a parent can tell identical twins apart. He had his unique personality and ways. For example, he would come to the branch by the breakfast nook every morning and look in at me while I was eating breakfast. If another bird was already there, Papa would sail in, and bump the other bird off the perch. When I went to the nest box to check on eggs or nestlings, he would fly down to a particular perch behind me and watch. I rarely saw or heard him approach but when I closed the nestbox and turned around, he was always there.

Physically, he had a broken middle toe on his left foot and the toe turned to the side instead of extending straight to the front. His beak was shorter than this new bird's and I think he was older, his eyes seemed not as buldged and he seemed a bit heavier. However, this last difference may not hold up over time. The birds can look so sleek and thin one minute and as round as a baby chick the next. This new bird may look differently once he becomes more comfortable.

Here are both birds, side by side. The new bird is on the right. There is a remarkable similarity in their appearance but if you look closely, you can see little differences, and in particular, the broken toe.

Dave

Mrs.Ed I did take the Gilbertson down after the failed first nesting and more or less forced them to nest in the NABS box with the slotted opening. After the cowbird removed the first egg from that one, I changed the front panel to one with a round hole. Mama laid four more eggs and they would have hatched except for yours truly. That box is mounted on a metal post, much like a shepherd's hook. I was mowing the grass two days before they were to hatch and I didn't see the foot that extends about eight inches behind the main post I hit it so hard it bent the crank shaft on the mower and knocked the nestbox loose and cracked all four eggs. I replaced them and she sat on them for a week longer but they never hatched and one by one she removed them. I was worried about more cowbird trouble and also heard the PVC model is less desirable to the HOSP, so I offered them their choice of boxes and again, Papa selected the Gilbertson.

Dave

Oh Dave. you HAVE had a bad year. But it's still early and maybe the rest of the year will be better. Anything will be better than losing your Papa Bluebird.

Oh, my goodness! I am SO sorry to hear about Papa! It is one of my greatest pleasures to put out meal worms and then sit at the patio table waiting for my Papa to come chat me up for a few moments before he dives in! I would just be heart broken if something happened to him! I am always amazed how quickly our winged ones adapt to change.

I think that it is easier to tell females apart. I see more variations in their coloring than in the males. That being said, I would be able to recognize a different male by watching for a few minutes. Our Papa is very predictable in his behavior and perches on very particular branches at particular times of the day. What melts my heart is how devoted he is to Mama!

Thanks for the comparison pic, Dave....but they look IDENTICAL to me!!! Glad you can tell the difference.

Clear differences in the beak...coloring, head shape, eyes...the new one is very pretty...

Dave - I'm concerned about the pair at school. I've been using the VanErt successfully, it has definitely deterred hosp activity. In fact there have been no hosp bothering the tree swallows. However, it's a similar situation to last year where a hosp nest w/chicks is behind the fire bell on the building no more than 15 ft. from the bluebirds' box.

What do you think about the possibility of moving the nest box from the north side of the bldg. to the east side where the tree swallows have 5 eggs being incubated? I'm wondering if there is safety in numbers. Or, if the hosp will following the blues. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I can't speak from experience, OP. I have never moved a nest box more than a few feet, and never moved one to get away from HOSPs.. But my guess is they would follow (or find) the nestbox. And if they do, you run the risk that they would also attack your tree swallows' nestbox. Where HOSP are concerned I do not think there is safety in numbers. In fact, the HOSP usually travel together, so if there is an advantage, it would likely favor the HOSP. But when it comes down to it, the fight is usually one on one.

I think I would put up several dummy boxes on whatever side of the building you choose to have your blues nest, and use VanErt's in them. Position them far enough away (100 feet or so) from the bluebird's active nestbox so that your male won't feel he has to defend them. You can't use a VanErt in the box with a nest in it because the nesting material will keep the trap from springing. You will need to monitor the dummy boxes continuously, to promptly remove any HOSP and/or release any other bird that might spring the trap. You can help monitor if you turn the dummy boxes so you can see the VanErt red dot from a distance with your binoculars.

My feeling is when a HOSP first shows interest in a box and the resident bluebird challenges him, the HOSP will often take the path of least resistance and move to another box, if one is available. I have used this technique with success. My mistake this time was leaving an empty box so close to the active nestbox that Papa felt it was in his territory, so he had to defend it.

This is off the top of my head. I will think about it some more and let you know if I think of anything.


Dave

This message was edited May 31, 2009 8:39 PM

Hi Dave! Just checkin in and wondering how the new male s taking to Mama. Is he letting her tend to her eggs? I sure hope you have at least one happy surviving faminl clan this year. they bring you and us so much joy.
Mine must have decided to nest elswere, but still retrn for mealies. I sure miss them though.

Sheri

Hi Sheri
Everything is going along wonderfully, somewhat to my surprise. The new male has settled into a routine very similar to Papa's. He is outside early in the morning, and is very close by all through the day. He takes meal worms to Mama when she is on the nest and stands guard when she is in the feeder cage. He has all but stopped his singing but hangs out within sight of her nestbox, which must be a real comfort to her. It is a great relief for me.

Mama continues to sit of the eggs, which should be hatching this thursday or friday. I wonder how he will react to the chicks once they hatch. I am going to be in West Virginia from friday till monday, so she will be on her own as far as food is concerned. I sure hope he is a good hunter and helps until I get back. In the past my birds never fed the newborn chicks meal worms anyway until they were four or five days old. By then the chicks require more food than the parents could quickly find and they began to look to me to supplement their catch.

Here is a picture of the new male, taken today. He was on his way to give the worm to Mama. As you can see, he only took her one, so it is mostly a gesture. She actually prefers to feed herself and often refused Papa's offers.

He has quite a beak. I have gone through some of my pictures of fledglings to see if I have ever had one with a beak like that and so far I have not found anything similar. His coloring and other markings are quite typical of the blues we see around here and in fact, he resembles Papa in most ways. Whether he is one of Papa's offspring is something we will probably never know and I guess it doesn't matter very much anyway, really.

I am sorry to hear your birds have not nested in your yard. Did you have the new box mounted in the yard as you planned to do? You know they are unpredictable, so maybe they they haven't nested anywhere yet.

Did I mention he has a big beak?

ha. Nice! It is indeed a relief that she will likely have help in feeding babies. I wonder if he will take them to the woods for training. All so nerve-wracking.

This better than any TV show!!

Gee...he does have a big beak! Great shots Dave and so glad everything seems to be working out...I know how relieved you and Mama must be!

He sure is a handsome fella. Glad mama is able to continue incubating.

Can't wait to hear how the hatchlings fare with a different Papa. Love the pics of him; he is just gorgeous!

Well, here is an update.

We got home last night (Sunday) about midnight and the first thing I did (even before I unpacked the car), was turn on the nestcam to see if I could tell what had happened in the three days we had been gone. Mama was on the nest, which didn't tell me much because if the eggs had not yet hatched, she would have still been there, trying. But I noticed she was not moving her lower body the way she did when she was rotating the eggs. And she seemed to have her feathers spread in a different way.

I checked back a little while later and did see her move and a part of the nest was exposed. I saw at least two little heads, so I knew at least some of the eggs had hatched and that they were alive. But the two big questions would not be answered until this morning. Was the new male still here, and how was he reacting to the hatchlings?

Well, so far the answer to every question is positive. All five eggs hatched and each chick appears to be well. The new male is acting as if these were his offspring, bringing mostly spiders for them to eat. It is still cool this morning so Mama remains on the nest most of the time, brooding. The new male hands the insect in to her and she feeds the chicks. I put out some meal worms and the adults ate like they were starving. Not surprising since they probably brought any insects they could find to the five nestlings, depriving themselves.

Here is the step dad with a spider.

And Mama, also with a spider. This was before I put out mealworms.

Here is the step dad with a meal worm, about to hand it to Mama inside the box.

And last for now, here is Mama, headed off to look for food.

Whew... :)

Just a beautiful sight. What a good guy!

That is just the best possible news...thanks for the update! I can almost hear your sigh of relief!!

You know it, Rose.

Spiders seems to be the prefered food for the chicks while they are so young.

Here is an interesting sequence involving spiders. First, she is sitting on the shepherd's hook.

He brings her a spider.

Excuse the quality (or lack of it) in this shot. It is just to show she didn't eat it.

I had to really move to get to the nestbox before she went in with it. But it is the same spider.