When to plant?

Hi Bev,

I'm bringing your thread back...


I was wondering if you are bale gardening again this year and if you have any updated photo's of your trellis system this year? If you don't mind I am going to "steal" your idea as it makes a ton of sense to me and I like the way it looks.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike, I indeed have much to post and am way behind in doing so. I'll start with this year's arched trellis which I am very proud of. We were so amazed and delighted with last year's arched trellis, we decided to build a better more permanent structure this year. Here we have just finished installing an extended waterline (for soaker hoses) for both arched trellises and a vertical cattle panel garden patch between the two.

The center section is shown with cardboard awaiting the installation of a gravel path and wood borders for the inside garden beds.



This message was edited May 3, 2010 7:46 PM

We used 5 cattle panels held with 2 each 2" x 2" x 20' angles on either side (for the base) for the structure after digging the area level. The metal fence supports are there for support if needed, but I'm sure the cattle panels are rigid enough to handle the weight of the tomato vines!

The angle is held in place by "L"-shaped 18" long rebar driven through holes in the angle and into the ground.



This message was edited May 3, 2010 7:58 PM

Hopefully you can make out the old trellis (last year's) in the foreground and the new trellis in the background. The old trellis was build parallel with the ground, while the new trellis was dug out and erected level.

I have 28 hay bales being conditioned on the outside of the two arched trellises, waiting to plant in them. After the over crowded conditions of the tomato plants in the hay bales last year (bales on either side of the same trellis) I decided to plant something other than tomatoes on the inside rows in last year's partially decomposed hay.

I have budgeted for clear plastic to cover the trellis for the winter months to sow a winter salad garden, as well as next year's seedlings. I have cold frames now for my traditional raised bed garden beds to help out, too.

We installed a new waterline with spigots for the soaker hoses this past weekend which should cut down on my time watering the bales.

One last thing, a video of last year's trellis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKrlaCzmAgI

I hope you folks enjoy it, and good luck to you all for this summer!!


This message was edited May 3, 2010 7:56 PM

That was pretty cool Bev. I am glad you changed to the cattle panels. You will like them so much better. Much easier to work with and I think they are stronger.

Thank you for the excellent update Bev! I guess I'll be looking for cow panels around here now. Great looking set up you have there.

Mike

Jeanette, We are very pleased with the cattle panels already and plan to change out the old trellis next year to match the new one, after leveling out the area.

Mike, Kent inspired me with his little make-shift arched trellis, so I'm very happy to help someone else to do the same! I guess it's that "pay it forward" theory, lol.

Thank y'all for the kind comments, and have a happy gardening season!!

Bev,
Are your panels the 16' long ones? Also, how far apart are the sides of the panels set? Thanks again!

Mike, I know you addressed this to Bev but here is my answer. Yes they are 16 feet long, and you put them right up against each other and I tied them together with wire in 3 places. Or wherever you are comfortable with.

The panels are 52 inches wide so her 5 panels are going to make her trellis approximately 21 feet long.

Jeanette

edited to add:
I would be interested at Bev's answer and how far apart she has the ends of the panels, mine are 8 ft, and that makes the center, or highest point, 6 ft high. We used an 8 ft stud (2x4) for a measuring stick.

This message was edited May 3, 2010 8:58 PM

Hey Mike, Everything Jeanette said was true, with the exception of the width apart of the ends. My cattle panel ends are 7' apart (width of structure) and we used 8 metal fence posts 7' long, which we used as a guide for the width. The old arched trellis is the same width.

The structure naturally wanted to be a semi-circular design, but when I slammed the hay bales up against the outside edges, it straightened the sides of the hoop a bit and made the center height around 7' tall (which my 6'-4" DH really liked). We had to readjust the support posts that we had wired to the panels, too.

I have an article planned for this, so I need to get it together, and published with all the data so folks can be building their own arched trellises.

Bev, I see where the 7 foot wide at the bottom would make it that much taller in the center. That is great. It also worked for you because you put your bales on the outside of the hoop whereas I put mine on the inside. Goes to show, whatever works.

That is great! Thank you both! I'll look forward to seeing your article Bev. I'm sure it'll be well received by all balers out there.

I am trying to decide whether or not to put my bales on the inside or the outside. Or rather which side to lay the panels as I already have my bales planted. Nearest Tractor supply to me is an hour and a half... ugh.
I've seen prices on these from $19 to $44 online just need to locate a solid source for them. I have a hook up for the T-posts.

I have two rows of 10 bales (two stringers) So I'll measure everything out when I get home to get a better idea of how much I'll need. Trying to do this for as good a deal as I can.

Mike, We got our panels at Tractor Supply for under $20 each. They are good sturdy quality, yet flex just enough to form the arch. There seems to be several different "weight classes" (for lack of the proper term, I make up my own, lol) of panels for different size of animals... or that is my understanding, so I guess that is why some are more expensive.

Last year I placed two rows of hay bales on either side of only one side of the arched trellis (look back at the video linked to above). The tomatoes growing in the inside bales grew through the wire which helped to support it. The tomatoes growing in the outside bales grew straight up and away from the wire, but I could easily reach through the wire to grab and tie down the vines. Eventually all the vines were on the outside and had to be tied down to the trellis wire.

My problems was that the tomatoes were growing too well in the bales and shaded each other out. I had to keep pruning and tying them. When the blight hit, it was too easy for the virus/fungus to quickly travel from one plant to another because they were so close and intermingled with one another. On the bright side, it was so much fun to walk under the trellis and very easily pick fruits and veggies in the shade.

This year I decided I would not use the double (side-by-side) bales again, and place them on the outside of arch. Meanwhile, I can start fall veggies on the inside where it may be cooler and shadier. I can place the clear plastic cover over the outside to form the green/hoop house after the tomatoes have finished, without disturbing the crops inside.

Bev,
I'm thinking I'll put them on the inside of the trellis. That way when winter comes I'll be able to wrap 'em in plastic for a hoop house. My ground stays pretty wet in winter and in some areas almost boggy. With the bales inside the trellis I'll be able to keep my winter crops up off the ground.

Bev,

Love the fact that you ran water to all your bales... one question... what do you do when it gets cold? they don't look like frost free pipes... just want to know how you drain them back in the winter... Thanks

Bev: outstanding! simply outstanding!

Kent

Mike, I thought someone said they carry the cattle panels at Home Depot. Do you have them or Lowes nearby? Feed stores carry them. Some hardware stores. Possibly Do-It centers. Try the phone book. Might be cheaper than gas.

I have lowes, home depot and the smaller ones like tru-value and ace. Went to lowes tonight and didn't find any of the panels. They did however have the field fence. Which to me looks like the panels in a big roll form. I may end up going with that if Home depot doesn't carry the smaller panels. Thanks for the heads up on those stores Jnette.
Mike

Mike, Consider that the tomatoes will grow through the cattle panels and end up on the top, or outside, of the panels. That might make it difficult to place the plastic sheeting over the panels, unless you're placing it loosely, temporarily, to protect the tomatoes from frost.

Nini, You're right, the waterlines are not frost-free hydrants. I was trying to build a manifold for the soaker hoses out of scrap garden hose and "Ys", when DH said he had a better idea. He used PVC pipe for the lines, placed about 2' deep in the ground, and boiler drains for spigots (less expense). He says he can hook up an air hose to the lines and blow the water out when the weather starts getting cold. He has a plumbing certification, so I trust he knows what he's doing (or he'll have to fix it, lol). We winterize various systems in the yard within a month or so after the garden finishes.

Kent, Thanks! I just wish my hay bales would hurry up and turn. I only have one that is fit to plant in so far! I'm going to try to find more fish emulsion like I used last year, the blood meal is not quick enough for me... or maybe I'm being impatient, lol. I have to keep reminding myself that you, and a few of my friends, are in a warmer zone and can plant the tender annuals sooner. I'm starved for a good ripe red tomato!!!!!!

Ooops cross-posted there Mike. I'm sure fencing would also work. We used the old rusty concrete re-mesh on last year's trellis and it's still hanging in there. You may need more supports though. We used rebar wired from fence post to post to stiffen the structure, but you may not even need it with a good sturdy fencing.

Bev,
The plastic I was referring to was for the winter months only so I don't think I'll be trying tomatoes in the winter time. Just looking for an area that gets a little more protection from the frost in late winter here as our winters are fairly mild (except for this last one).

Mike

Mike,
I understand what you mean now, you're in a much warmer zone than I am!
Happy gardening and let us know the status of your arched trellis and your bales!

Bev

It took longer than I thought to finish an article on the arched cattle panel trellis, but it was published here in the DG newsletter this morning with the most recent pics of the plants in hay bales: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2879/

I hope you all find it useful.
Bev

That was real cool Bev. Now you need to add to it as your plants grow.

Thanks Jeanette! We're thinking of rebuilding last year's little concrete wire trellis with the cattle panels, too... we'll see I guess.

Excellent!

Loved the article Bev! Thanks for sharing.
Mike

Thanks Kent.

You're very welcome Mike. What is the status of your trellis/bales?

Bev,
No trellis this year. I have every thing staked. Tomatoes, peppers, cucs and all the herbs are doing fine. Beans started well but aren't thriving, although I've havested some of them. Zucs started well as well and I did manage a few of them before I found the squash vine borer. My yellow squash plants had a good start as well before the same happened to them. I have 9 stalks of corn going and so far all of them have silk. They are short, only about 4 ft but they all have silk like I said. I will be starting my winter seeds here shortly and with the absense of my zucs and squash I will have a couple of good spots for them. Next year in the late winter early spring I'll be starting the trellis so long as I remain state side.
Thanks for asking!
Mike

Mike, Sounds good so far! It seems there is always a veggie or fruit that does really well per season, and another that bites the dust regardless of what you do!

Please post pics of your trellis if you get to build it next year!
Have a great gardening season,
Bev