hardiness of I. indica

I have some I. indica in tubs in my house, and they gave gotten large. We are weeks away from warmer nights, and I would like to plant them outside this spring. I have no clue as to how hardy they might be, but have always assumed they were not hardy.

My questions are, how hardy is it, and how far north can you expect it to winter over? Frank

I've heard it overwintering outdoors in zone 8 with heavy mulch , but it's never overwintered outdoors here for me...not even close...
Much of my I.sagittata (which is more cold hardy than I.indica) croaked after some 'hardiness experimenting' and letting it take a heavy freeze...saved enough though , by deciding I should bring whatever I could inside asap...(!)

The weather should be warm enough to place the Ipomoea indica outside at this point (mine is outside), as long as you don't expect it to survive the winter outdoors...you can put it in the ground and take cuttings to overwinter indoors...or put some directly in the ground and leave some in the containers...

Frank - this is not an absolute yes/no answer, but might give an idea as to how much wiggle room you might have -

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/716697/

waving to Ron - crossed in cyberspace

ps - seems like an opportunity now to propagate from cuttings from runners, so that we could be experimenting with different microclimates around our gardens this coming winter. Cold temps are only 1 of a few factors - others have to do with wind, drainage, perhaps others not coming to mind right now...pH?

Cuttings from runners seem to have a relatively high degree of success for some. My I. indicda, which lives in a qt-size yogurt container, went crazy with runners not long after the winter solstice - they tried to wrap themselves between the light bulbs and fixture, barricade the tiny storage/utility room from wall to wall and gobble up their neighbors. (Thanks to Gourd for the seed that germinated into my long-wished-for "Blue Dawn Flower")

karen

This message was edited May 10, 2009 9:17 PM

i live in sc and mine comes back every year with no mulch. i have one under pine straw that fell from the tree and it came back. we have gotten low 20s this past winter for several days in a row and it came back. i dont know about prolonged cold but mine does come back.

My winters here usually bottom out at 10 degrees. This last winter was about 6 degrees lower on the average. I was in town yesterday, and all the spring shrubs and trees are in bloom at the same time. Magnolias,
narcissus, lilacs, dogwoods, and even the flowering cherries were still in bloom. Frank

bluespiral - Thanks for the link to Kevin's thread...that thread slipped my mind (see it can happen )...very interesting and useful thread...(!)

Thanks (!)...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron - yer welcome

Frank and all - hollyhock roots survive our winters when brutally yanked out of the garden and tossed into the compost pile. Our compost pile is up against an old dirt-floored outbuilding, beneath a hemlock. Y'all have made a light bulb go off in my very dusty attic: imagine a tidy group of my qt-size (larger even better - milk jug containers?), recycled yogurt containers with the roots of various species of MGs buried in that pile over the next winter???

I suppose I should encase them in a wire box against voles and mice...? I would imagine the roots should be well established for this experiment. We know someone with livestock who might be persuaded to part with some manure that could be dug into the pile in the vicinity of these potted roots for extra warmth into March...hmmm. Our property is too small to meet county code for livestock.

Henry Mitchell used to winter over his "Blue Dawn Flower" in a trash bag in his basement, watering very little - just enough that the contents did not get bone dry - sogginess would have been lethal.

The common factor to Mitchell's basement and my compost pile is dormancy. I don't know whether I. indica is supposed to be an annual or perennial, but its behavior that I previously described sure was different from two other pots of MGs that are supposed to be annuals: Gourd's I. nil 'Fujisibori' (spelling?) and I. nil 'Akatsuki no Murasake'. Those 2 nils are alive, but they sat next to I. indica and made no new growth. Fujisibori bloomed a few times, but not so with Akatsuki no Murasaki. I'm still waiting to see what they'll do next.

I'm wondering if I. indica's different behavior (from the nils) might indicate the cyclic behavior of a true perennial? If so, perhaps that cycle might include a dormant period which could be used advantageously per compost pile or sack in basement or some other technique.

Would be interested in comments on my random ruminations here.

Ipomoea indica is a perennial...so,after the bloom period a total death signal does not get sent to the roots as happens in annuals...

Oooh! Sounds like a vine I should grow year-round here! :-) Thanks for all the info on this species. I believe I have seeds somewhere. Will consider starting one because I love perennials.

Becky, this is one of the species, where invasive, means it swallows trees whole.
This specie has been used commercially in California to cover ugly sites, like walls,abutments, old buildings. It is a rednecks dream come true, it covers old cars very quickly.

There is also one little detail you might explore, I don't remember any pictures of them blooming profusely in containers. In the ground the seem to me to bloom so high up on the vine, that you don't get an intimate view of the flower.

Mine are two years old, in 3 gal tubs, and unbloomed!!! They are going outside this spring, and I will just use cutting to get them through winter. They are relentless viners,
and the very topmost vine reaches out, as it sweeps around in a circle looking for any thing to grip. They keep growing longer making the circle bigger untill they actually touch something and grip it. Often another plant.

To propagate them, I use yogurt cups. I slit them down the side and make a half inch
hole in the center of the bottom. I just pry the thing open and slide 5 or 6 vines into the midle where the hole is waiting for them. Then I strip off plenty of the leaves, so it will be easy to fill with potting mix, and then put tape around it to keep it closed. Now I paint on some elmers glue with rooting hormone mixed in, and then fill with potting soil, abd wet. When this is a month old, it should be removed and potted up in something large. If you wait 6 weeks it will be rootbound in the cup you used. You should hang these cups somehow, so that they are easy to water. The seem to dry out fast....

If every one growing these from seed, or posessing plants grown from seed, would collaborate here about their Indica plant experience, we could all swap groups of cuttings, in an attempt to get some actual pollination.

Your seedling won't self pollinate, and neither will mine. But if we swap vines, we both just might get some seeds. They won't even make seed unless they pollinate outside
the mother plant. Apparently, every plant is unique, but recognizes its own pollen.
It is like it cant make seeds with its own pollen, so you need at least 2 different seedlings.

Blue dawn is allways sold as rooted cuttings, therefore it is a clone, produced by vegetative propagations. I never call a seedling Blue Dawn, BECAUSE IT IS A SEEDLING. Each seedling needs it's own Identification name or number, because it came from it's own seed, and is not identical to any other. With all these seedlings numbered, whoever gets cuttings of them can then keep them Identified, and use them separately for pollenation. The flowers may be nearly identical, but infact different individually. This could be fun if we knew exaxtly who has seedlings they themselves grew from seeds, so we coud give them an ID # or something. Frank

Frank - That is fasinating information. I had no idea how they were propagated. They remind me a little of Brugmansia. Brugs also can not self-pollinate. When crossed, every single seed in each pod is considered a different plant. No two are likely to be the same. Isn't that amazing! I didn't know I. Indica also had a similiar nature. I will likely grow one or two from seed in a large pot. My zone is conducive to invasiveness and I don't want to turn it lose to run amuck.

Becky - Ipomoea indica is native to Florida.
http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=3387
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPIN
http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/node/202

Ask Sister Mary Martha - and having attended Catholic school for 8 long years I can confirm the statement at the top of the page ...(!)
http://asksistermarymartha.blogspot.com/2007/05/story-morning-glory.html

I agree with Ron - except that I do not need to mulch my vines in my 8a TX Zone and they always return. I have them in several areas and in some spots where they are quite sheltered, they do not even die back at all.

I love this vine . . . especially the fact that it produces incredible blooms ALL DAY LONG and I don't understand why so many refer to it as 'invasive'. I know there are many different definitions of 'Invasive Species', however, in my eyes, 'invasive' are plants that you have to dig to china to remove the roots - OR, that you can NOT ‘control’! In my area, that is definitely not the case with Blue Dawn. When you want the vines removed just yank them up and since they are VERY shallow rooted, they come up without a tug.

Yes, they do spread by runners and the best thing to do is to take those runners and move them up with the rest of the vine to climb [Just like Ipomoea alba]. Additionally, Blue Dawn makes a great groundcover because of the creeping style it also has. And they look awesome rambling to the top of tall trees . . . I have one of those too.

My vines are from a neighbor of mine and I DO get seeds on my vines, just not like some vines in the tropics that will give you bunches of seeds, but mine DOES produce seeds. However, it is true that by growing different strains together they will cross fertilize better and produce more seeds.

You want Invasive!
Try to keep ‘Greenbrier’ out of your yard
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/C867-2.htm
It spits pretty red berries all over the place, along with the assistance of birds, that will give you even MORE vines.
I have been battling this one for years. One Vine I dug 3’ to get to the bottom of the tuber, but I got it *-*

Emma




"...That's just a clinging vine ma'm, don't you make a racket. They just wind around your ankle. Here, take a stick and whack it!" Jim Stafford


This message was edited May 13, 2009 5:53 PM

It's not so much the winter cold it could do to about minus 8 to 10 celcius for short periods in the UK covered with a good mulch it's the winter wet, you must keep it bone dry and the compost very airy. Mine formed a lovely tuber but you must starve it of nutrients to get the best blooms, if you give it fertliser it will grow lots of leaves at the expense of blooms.

if this invasive flower , " I. indica Blue Dawn" climbs trees, then I need to try it!

it does climb trees and anything it can. i have several in my yard and my biggest one is down at my guinea cage. we are letting it grow over it as shade cover. it is so pretty.



it can be invasive if you dont keep an eye on it. two of mine havent ever been a problem but the one at the cage oh my. if you let it touch the ground it will take hold. thats a given. but they are pretty easy to pull up. but i agree this plant can get out of hand. in warmer areas like Flordia with out any cold i believe its like kudzu. I can see it running like wild.

mine is neglected alot of the time. and it still thrives. i think the statement starve it is a good one for the blooms. cant wait to see mine this year as its covering the cage. and yes i know its poisonous for animals but thankfully these birds dont eat plants.

I can't say if it is poisonous or not, the common forms are self sterile, I would go into the reasons why etc but they won't produce seed that might be consumed, even if they did produce seed you would probably end up with chickens trippin' on the LSA / LSD pre-curser (magic spirits!) in the seeds

One thing I can say is the species is covered in annoying hairs that make me itch like made - as does the white latex it exudes when you break a stem!