Sure you can! It is better than potting mix as it aireates far better and you can make three five gal containers with one pack that weighs about 12 lbs dehydrated. Go to www.instadarden.com and meet BocaBob.
Any Coco Grower Questions? PART 2
Planolinda, I use it in grow bags in the greenhouse (tomatoes and cucumbers) and find it works much better if you add perlite to it. Using coir alone will eventually pack down and then it loses its aeration properties. In the process it also gets to the point of holding too much water, no fun there, especially when you're working with umpteen growbags.
I don't think it is any more expensive than peat. If you can find it at a local garden center that will sure save you bucks on shipping. If not then folks out West may find it more economically feasible to order it closer to home. More and more suppliers are carrying it now than they were back in the '80's when it first came on the mkt.
beakerJ, you asked above, "I know you add the limestone to peat, but why add it to the coir since it has a more neutral pH anyway?" Good point, and one I've tried to explain for several months now. You don't need to add lime to peat; doing so might even raise your pH to a point where you don't want it, causing adverse effects. When using a peat-based medium lime is added to raise the pH and also to add calcium for particular plants, tomatoes and peppers are the usually recommended ones. For a coir based medium it would be best to add gypsum to supply the calcium (and not change the pH) OR to use a fertilizer that offers calcium.
Shoe (who is so happy I get to finally sit down and rest from "all things gardening"!)
ascholz, CONGRATS on the prize! I think you'll have great fun with those stackers!
Thanks Shoe!
I would like to share my recent coir experience with ya'll ifn you don't mind me ramblin for a bit.
I bought coco coir from a local guy about 6 weeks ago at a craft festival here in Summerville. It was the first time I had ever heard of it. After I got it home (and a few weeks later) I found this thread and learned of Boca Bob's coir. After reading all your success stories I was anxious to try my coir. Well....I put it in an 18 gal container and added the water. The next day I went out to play in my softened coir and found it was next to impossible to break up. I got my little hand fork thingy and proceeded to WHACK away at it for the next hour or so! FINALLY it was soft enough for me to use. My arms were so tired afterwards I could hardly move them! Later, I planted a couple of hanging baskets, and some potted flowers and yes it does hold moisture very well. After my workout and seeing ya'll talk about how easy Bob's was to break up I thought I should give his a try so I ordered some.(not a lot of $$ difference) I got it Friday and yesterday I added the water in the same 18 gal container. It took exactly 15 minutes for it to become workable! NO WHACKING with little fork thingy (just gentle persuasion)AND it filled the whole container where the other only filled about 3/4. It was also alot cleaner and lighter. I don't know the process of making the coir but I can attest to the fact that there are different grades out there. Hope this helps anyone who hasn't tried it yet. I'm not sure how to tell the different grades when its dry so it would probably be best to get recommendations of where to buy it from someone who has used it.
Good report, ascholtz. And yep, several different kinds of coir out there. Some is used for mulch (chips) and some is recommended even for erosion control.
Two sources with the better coir product for container growing would be Bob's store (link given above by Tplant) or Hydro-gardens.com Those two places have a proven track record with the coir blocks.
Shoe
Horseshoe: Thanks so much for that first paragraph, as that is exactly what I experienced with the coconut coir first hand, it was holding way too much water and would not let go of it, so of course, it made the container heavier. Of course, weather has a lot to do with it too. Here where I live one only needs to look at what my weather has in store for me over the next two weeks to get an idea of what I'm facing here, I have two weeks of nonstop rain on the way. Like I have tried to explain to everyone, Florida is a very long state, and with 3 different growing zones in it. The folks in south Florida would love the coir, they live in draught in the summer due to hardly any rainfall and very high temps of the high 90"s and upwards, not to mention the humidity factor and would probably benefit from wringing their sweat soaked clothes on their plants. Here we are just hitting the upper 70's and 80's and won't even see 90 degree weather til summer gets here; but we have no water shortage, just the opposite, we have too much water.
I lived in south Florida, Ft Lauderdale, Hollywood, Pompano for 25 years and would not venture outside my apartment in the Spring and summer as the heat and humidity made it difficult for me to even move around, I suspect that is TPlant's problem also. When I moved up here I can now get around, because I don't suffer from the heat and humidity that loves to jump into my bones and discs and give me problems. Been here for 7 years now and love it.
The next month will be the deciding factor for me as to whether I use coconut coir again or not, as we have rainfall coming up for 2 weeks, without fertilizer rings planted in the layflat bags and 5 gallon grow bags, I'm a little concerned, when will I water with Bob's fertilizer? In between raindrops and then what?
Not trying to be sarcastic here folks either, just truthful as to what I'm experiencing. Texas is also a big state, and I kind of suspect that i has zone differences and weather differences also just like Florida does.
joy
Joy - I understand what you're sayin' about FL. I'm halfway between you and Bob and have yet ANOTHER "microclimate" as it were. ;) We're praying for rain around here - I keep waiting for the nice daily rainshowers we experienced the 1st few years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, ya'll, as I'm new to container gardening and using up the last of my MG before I order some of Bob's fertilizer. I believe he says he regularly waters with a weakened solution (which I've done with MG in the past with success). I'd assume if I had daily rains (like you, Joy), I'd switch to the more concentrated "once-a-week" feeding ratio?
Anyhow...when are these suckers gonna turn red??? LOL Just kidding, I've already been sampling the cherry tomatoes...
See?
DeniseMB: I believe the weakened down fertilizer was for seedlings, from what you are showing in your pics these are no longer seedlings, these are bonafide plants and good looking ones at that. Time to switch to full strength and water every other day with it and then water every other day. Are you using Bob's fertilizer and how fertilizer and how much epsom salts are you adding to the watering container?
Maybe he can correct me if I'm wrong here? But, it appears like your plants are getting pretty mature and ready to produce some red tomatoes soon?
joy
I have used a mix of 80% coir and 20% per lite in some stackers made by the verti-gro company for 5 years now. The mix came with the stackers. And lo these many years, those stackers and the coir mix just worked beautifully. Never did I have any problems with them holding too much water, at least that I was smart enough to notice. I have the same mix all these years and it still seems good to me.
About 4 years ago, I bought some EZgro stackers and they came with a mix of 80% perlite and 20% vermiculite. I am still using that mix 4 years later. It is definitely a faster draining mix and never ever shows an indication of holding too much water, even during prolonged rainy spells. I had 40 EzGro stacker pots with that mix.
This year I bought 50 more EZgro stacker pots and since I had become so fond of the coir mix, I decided to start transitioning over to a coir/perlite mix of 60% coir and 40% course horticultural perlite.
So I had 40 pots with the perlite/vermiculite mix and the rest with the coir perlite mix. This turned out not be such a good idea because they do not drain equally and I am watering them all at the same time with an automatic watering system. The predominately coir mix was holding moisture longer than the predominately perlite mix so I have turned off the automatic watering system and gone back to hand watering. I plan on putting individual drippers on each stack so I can adjust the water flow to each stack individually and then go back to automatic watering.
In the last few stacks I have assembled, I have changed the mix to 60% perlite and 40% coir. Not too smart, you say? Now I have three different mixes to water from the same automatic watering system. Well I agree. But it is a learning situation this year and next year I will have all my stackers with exactly the same mix so everything is more easily controlled with an automatic watering system.
Please remember, my situation is that I am growing in stackers, a lot of them, many more than the average home gardener. What Im learning does not apply straight across to other situations, containers, and climates 100%. Some of it might be useful though.
Some of the lower pots on my stacks did hold too much moisture during prolonged rainy spells. Nothing serious, no lasting damage to plants, but it did happen in the stacks with the predominate coir (60/40) mix. Didn't happen in the predominate perlite/vermiculite (80/20) mix. We had a much wetter spring than normal or I would have never noticed it, and again, in my case, no big problem but something to be aware off.
So what have I learned? In my case I will increase the perlite in the coir/perlite mix just in case we get some more prolonged rainy spells. During the usual hot dry summers I will adjust water/fertilizer timing as necessary.
I love coir. It has many advantages in my opinion compared to peat base mixes I have tried. The same mix can be used for a few years if properly cared for. I dont intend to pollute mine with home made compost, cow poo, etc. I dont know what you will end up with at the end of a growing season with a lot of so-called "organic" additives in the coir. Maybe something for the compost pile or it may be still usable another year. I dont know. I think I will be able to flush my coir/perlite mix with some hydrogen/peroxide at the end of a growing season to kill any squigglies that may be in there and use it for as many seasons as I can.
You may ask why I dont just stick with the perlite/vermiculite mix that EZgro recommends. Good question and my answer probably doesnt make sense but I am trying for a slightly more moisture holding mix for our predominately hot dry summers. And if I wasn't playing around with all this grow mix stuff, I would probably be getting in trouble some other way.......chasing girls or riding motorcycles or something dangerous like that.
I think straight coir would be great for certain crops like tomato's, heavy feeders.
I think the reason my vertigro pots never showed too wet was because they are small (l.25 gallons) and even small plants could suck the water out of them quickly plus their shape prevented them from taking on too much rain water. My EZgro's are 2.5 gallons and shaped different to get the plant sites out to receive sunshine and therefor absorb more rain water. Just some minor things to consider.
For me, it is coir with perlite added at the right ratio to fit my containers (stackers only), climate, and what type plants I may be growing.
This message was edited May 10, 2009 5:22 PM
Jay: I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one. I'm going to be hooking up watering systems here soon. One will be a soaker hose system for the flower beds round front and one will be a drip system for my grow bags and EBs, GPs and topsy's. I will have to have more than one AWS though, as my plants have different needs. I anticipate moving some of the layflat bags of toms around also, as the table is getting crowded with all the tomatoes getting bigger now. Live and learn right? LOL
joy
I appreciate the info about different brands of coco coir and suggested sources (BocaBob or Hydro-gardens.com) because I wound up with the same type as ascholz for my first kind--hard as a rock and really hard on my arms and hands. As an experiment I have one block that is going into its second WEEK soaking in a trash barrel full of water!!) I'm in contact with the company (Beats Peat) and they are going to pay the postage to Canada for me to return one unopened block to them so they can check what's going on, but it's a giant pain.
I have a question for Jaywhacker, and forgive me if you've already answered it: do you also recommend 80% coir and 20% perlite in your EarthBoxes-type containers?
BTW, I am fascinated by Jay's account of his experiment with different mixes in his various stackers. I thank everyone for all the information.
Ok - once the coir brick has hydrated and fluffed up,
what nest?
I have perlite to mix with it for a stacker system.
read somewhere something about sea soil added to coir
- is this sea soil also needed??
trying to get started . . .
I wish I could help more but I am using stackers only and only here in my climate conditions. I dont own earthboxes. Check with Tplant on the Eboxes, he has used them for years with different type mixes.
And I dont know from nothing about any seasoil or other similar stuff, dont have any idea what is in it. I personally do not mix organic stuff in with my coir/perlite inorganic mix but thats just me. Others do with great results in whatever type growing systems they are using. Im still experimenting with what I think will be the right mix of coir/perlite for my conditions and hesitate to recommend any specific mix ratio's to someone else because conditions vary. I really do like the coir compared to other mixes and I like to mix perlite with it to make it a more free draining mix to fit my stackers and my automatic watering system.
Agree with CapeCod, that's an excellent report on your useages of coir, Jay. Sure am grateful to you for sharing your results and perceptions. Ya done good! You sure have explained things very well with the "hows" and "whys".
I have straight coir in bags growing both tomatoes and cukes. Never again though, I think adding perlite will be a much better mix helping to keep more air within the medium as well as keeping the coir from settling and compacting so much.
I've used coir/perlite at an 80/20% ration for bedding and vegetable plants and it works well. Pure coir for some of my veggie plants in 4" pots didn't work so well due to it being pressed down a bit too much in the pots; I'm sure this caused those plants to turn yellow-ish due to too much water and low oxygen to their roots.
Hydrogardens.com has a 70/30 coir mix they recommend for us greenhouse grow bag folks so I think I will mix at that ratio and see how well in works in other instances.
50glee, I am not familiar with sea soil, is that a commercial product and if so what is it, fertilizer? a potting mix of some kind?
Shoe
horseshoe - discovered sea soil is yet another unnecessary coir/soil amendment.
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Jaywhacker - let me get this straight Coir can be used in the EZ Gro stackers?
do you add or remove any other parts of the EZ Gro system??
- after reviewing the link on MiracleGrow
(all soil and fertilizer products)
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/441806/
Im now seeking a fertilizer I KNOW is not a synthetic . . .
Thanking all for so much information!
50glee.........yes, you can use coir in the ezgro stacks. Also any other type of grow mixes you might wont to try. All my experimenal mixes I have tried leads me to believe I strayed too far from the mix that EZgro recommends and that I used successfully for 3 to 4 years. I can highly recommend the EZgro pots and grow mix and fertilizer and suggest you follow their instructions to a "T" until you gain experience with the stacked container systems. Their grow mix is basically 80% course perlite and 20% vermiculite and it is just about impossible to overwater with this mix. Next year, I think I will convert everything to to 80% course perlite and 20% coir. I think that mix may hold a little more moisture for a little longer than the perlite/vermiculite mix but not enough difference to argue about. I just simply like coir more so than vermiculite.
The fertilizer from EZgro is fabulous and very easy to use. A new user of stacking containers would do well to start out with the EZgro kits (3 pot or 5 pot kits) which come complete with all mounting parts, grow mix, and fertilizer. Later on, you might wont to order seperate items like pots only, grow mix only, or fertilizer only. Once you take a close look at an EZgro kit, you will be able to save some money by just buying pots and making your own mounting systems.
Go to www.theezgro.com website. Go to the "store" link and you will see that you can buy complete kits or seperate parts. All EZgro pots mount on standard 3/4 inch electrical conduit. I still recommend that you go first with one of their complete kits and grow one or two full seasons exactly as they recommend. They have their hydroponic system down pat.
'The Gardens of EzGro'! are flourishing and looking good!
makes the saying, ''Feels good?; It's All Right!"
have a whole new and different meaning ! ha ha ha
. . . but im dating myself on that one! LOL
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Im using coir and want to fertilize
- but want to stay away from synthetic fertilizers (MG).
considering my coir - thus far is already hydrated
and in containers
can a 10-10-10 fertilizer be diluted and watered thru??
~ OR ~
how to fertilize what is already planted??
Scroll down to the fertilization part of this article for some good info. It is from Texas A&M so it is bound to be the straight poop.
I dropped out of that "synthetic" and "natural" argument years ago when I became convinced that the plants just dont give a whether they get their nutrients from a straightforward synthetic source or a convoluted organic source. All I know is that I can give my plants a shot of water soluable Miracle Grow (or some other similar concoction) and see immediate results.
Funny story here: I had a relative visit. He is my organic relative. Still has every copy of Organic Gardening magazine ever published. One morning he was lecturing me about the evils of my use of synthetic fertilizers while he was sorting out his morning dose of vitamin pills. He had a handfull of vitamin pills to take and just before he took them, I screamed, "Dont take those vitamin pills, they are synthetic!" He didnt like the comparison but he was giving his body the same things he criticized me for giving to my plants.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/container/container.html
You say you wont to stay away from synthetic fertilizers like MG but aren't you using 10-10-10 fertilizer? Is that not considered synthetic?
This message was edited Jun 6, 2009 1:31 PM
This message was edited Jun 6, 2009 1:36 PM
My Island garden, as I call it, is finally starting to bloom.Most everything is in coir and all are in containers. The white bags contain Dinner plate Dahlias. The balance of them are roses and Brugmansia which are now in bloom. It took a lot of time and work to set this up but it's worth it...The view is from my deck where I have my coffee every morning.
The roses are along the black fence which makes for a great background for the rose colors.
This tree was planted in front of my deck by the landscapers. I forgot to ask the name of the tree but it has beautiful red flowers and if you look carefully to the left you just may be able to see one.
Planted most all of my fruit trees except for the Papaya way down at the end of the picture by the palm trees. This is picture is also from my deck.
First is a red navel, a persimmons, a carambola or star fruit and to the left a Makki mango.
Picture did not come through so I had to redo.
TPlant: Wonderful looking melon there and also beautiful garden.
Everyone: My melons were all planted in lay flat bags of coir, except one, and that one is not doing as well as the ones in the coir, coir is great for hot weather, it holds in moisture, and melons needs lots of that. So; my suggestion is this: if you want nice melons grow them in the coir lay flat bags, you won't be sorry you did.
joy
Thank You!
TPlant: Just got back from southern FL, my butt doesn't want to see a car seat for a while, that was 10 hours down and 10 back, my daughter drove down, I drove back up fully loaded down after shopping at Doris Italian Market and Penn Dutch Meats, can you believe Penn Dutch had melons for $1 each? Unbelieveable. I had to get 4 of them, they are going for $6 up here. Will be posting pics of the difference between the melons in the lay flat bags of coir and the lay flat bags of something else this week. I have one perfect ambrosia melon that is so cute coming out of the lay flat bag of coir, and now that it is so hot up here, and melons like moisture, they will do so well in the coir, given that the lay flat bags are close to the ground is a plus for melons too and you will see why in my pics.
joy
Just got home today as a had a severe heart attack Monday and that is why no one has heard from me. I was mowing my lawn when I got dizzy which I thought was from the heat but when chest pain started I called 911 and if I would have waited any longer I wouldn't be typing this.
They let you come home already?!?
How are you feeling?
This message was edited Jun 19, 2009 4:12 PM
Glad you survived. Pace youself from now on.
We need your advice and wisdom and humor.
Tplant, take care of yourself! We're thinking about you and hope you are making a full recovery!
Tplant - please update us on your condition when you get a chance.
Health comes before lawns ;)
Hope you're feeling better.
TPlant: It was miserably hot down there when I was there, and it is up here too, quit mowing the lawn yourself and allow your grandson or son to do it for you ok? You should not be going out into this heat except for short stints. I have been taking shifts even up here with the heat, and I'm younger than you, so please listen to everyone and slow it down some.
joy
Ok, I just heard about coir. I need to know if it is ok to use in wintersow containers?? Not veggies, just perennials and annuals.Please.
Jada,
YES, you can use coir to start your perennial/annual seeds.
Linda
LOL! Thanks.
What is the benefit before i spend more money:-)
JADA, Here's TPlants introduction from the other thread, Part 1:
"As per prior request I will try to answer some questions. I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge. My experience so far has been excellent as there is no stale odor, unless you use stinky fertilizer or let the unused portion stand in water for days on end in which bacteria from the stale water builds up, no dirt imbedded in hands or behind fingernails, no allergies due to dust but most important great results. One of the biggest features for me is the fact that it only weighs ten or twelve pounds when dehydrated and not sixty pounds or even forty pounds in bulk bags. "
jadajoy: I use Boca Bob's seed starter kit, the dome is huge, and you can just transplant the whole thing in the container you want as it has a small basket that holds the coir and seedling and you just plant that. I think the biggest plus is that the roots get the exact amount of moisture they need with coir, as coir absorbs excess moisture until the plant needs it, so you can't get dampening off disease like I had a big problem with before using it. When the coir starts changing color as in a light color you know it needs more water. In the seed starting kit of Boca Bob's the plants take up the water with their roots from the bottom, and it's really easy to tell when you need more water. Not only that, you can plant 60 at a time in one seed starting kit.
joy
And from JAYWHACKER:
Gymgirl...I have been playing around with different grow mixes for about four years and just recently decided that coir was the finalist in my trials...the WINNAH!! COIR!! Watching Bob's success with the coir down in Florida was impressive and coincided with some conclusions of my own so I am difinitely a coirboy now.But a word of caution...I am not an expert on anything gardening...especially vegetable gardening. I just like flowers mostly and enjoy playing around with the technical and mechanical aspects of the vertical growing systems. I can help out some of you with some aspects of the vertical growing systems but in other matters of gardening I must defer to opinions such as Bob's or Tplants or yours and other experienced gardeners.
And, finally, DEVOTA:
This isn't a question...just a report... I did an experiment with a few of my tommy plants and discovered something else I didn't know.
I needed to bury some cherry tommys deeper and I took them out to place them lower down in the cups. I tugged at them gently and...
Imagine my surprise when they also came out of the not only the cups but also the little seedling cells baskets with ease. That was because of the coir being so light. The little plants lay there in my hand their roots undamaged, and I replanted them as I meant to. This morning they are as happy as they can be. I could never have done that with mix or soil.
Oh, to be able to plant tomatoes again. Wish it was time; but....... sniffles, not til FEB for me I'm afraid.
joy