Ravenous Rabbits and Other Garden PestsPart #3.

Thanks for the info, Ric! The one you linked to sounds like it might be death to squirrels but perhaps doesn't have enough punch for a GH. Hysterical photo!

Jen, I'm a good shot with a rifle or shotgun, but with a bow I couldn't even hit the huge haybale the target was pinned to. I guess the groundhog is safe. LOL

Judy, I hope I didn't sound critical.
You're right that kids will remember certain things. like that very well. Our cat had an eye infection last year and to be brutally honest we did consider not spending the nearly a thousand bucks to merely save the cat with an eye removal (high tech eye surgery could be had for over 3 K--but so can a semester of AACC) But we just couldn't justify putting the cat down, as you pointed out, the memory the kids would have of the whole incident would be very chilling, versus "we saved our poor cat so he could continue to hide in the basement every day and get petted occasionally when he felt brave enough to come out"

But is it odd, or not, that the bigger the vermin, the "harder" it is to kill it? I mean really, fruit flies no problem, deer, whoa nellie. I think the tiny scale decreases to impact emotionally since we don't "see" the death the same way.

Coleup, I have a live trap for rabbits and bought a bigger one for groundhogs, which they mostly manage to avoid. I think with kids, both actions and attitude are important... I think you can teach respect for nature and regard for life and still swat mosquitoes, set traps for mice in the house, go hunting, etc. I don't think Joyanna is likely to be traumatized by any of my attitudes toward critters. :-)

Trap & relocate isn't necessarily the humane solution, either. A relocated animal has to find a new territory (in an area that is probably already claimed by another), find shelter and protection from hawks etc., find food & water... and may well die before getting settled in. You have to weight the pros and cons when you have a pest you need to be rid of. In the middle of winter, I think it's more humane to use snap traps to remove mice from the basement than it would be to live trap them and toss them out into the snow. I've only ever once resorted to a glue trap, for a mouse that was eating seedlings and managing to evade all other traps (and I got one with anesthetic in the glue and checked it regularly).

I haven't relocated any bunnies this year. We have plenty out there, but it looks like they're mostly eating the clover and not doing much garden damage.

Not real sure about that Jill, it has the muzzle velocity as a 40g .22 round. How good do you shoot? LOL Ric

OK, with that velocity, it would probably work.. a little target practice to get used to it, and I'd say I could do it even from across the yard... how quiet is it, exactly? LOL I'll bet the usual firearm ordinances still apply, but if that groundhog gets tired of the farmer's field and starts targeting my garden again, well... ;-)

I didn't mean to sound harsh in my earlier post, and I do understand how an incident like Judy described can have lasting impact. it's just that a gun isn't automatically an inhumane solution... and sometimes populations just need to be reduced, because the "natural" predators just aren't there anymore (unless we can manage to introduce wolves to the suburbs... and there are actually people in favor of urban coyote populations.. can you tell I used to hang out with ecologists? LOL).

Thanks for your posts Sally and Critter. As a newbie it has been hard to jump in to a crowd of great and regular posters who all seem to know each other and have lots of context and history in which to post. Most difficult and intriguing is how to take a particular post.b With my real life friends I know most of the time how to read them but with only my screen and keyboard in front of me my perceptiveness is limited and frustrating at times as subtlties elude me. If I have read you incorrectly or failed to see where you are coming from, I apologize. And I am very grateful for your further posts so I can better get where you are coming from

Judy

Rest assured and never doubt , if you love plants you are loved at Mid Atlantic Forum!!!
Newbies are newbies for one post exactly then they're part of the flock. But the sheep are allowed to bleat different ways whenever they feel like it. !! Now including--.If talk of killing groundhogs upsets you we will stop even a private dmail will get the message conveyed
and I completely understand how you feel, I stumbled a little at first, nuff said

LOL, Yes we have a diverse group always good to share thoughts and ideas. You are right about picking up on emotions with only a keyboard. Lot's of tongue in cheek here. LOL

Sally, I'm currently working on an article on groundhogs entitled
"What's A Well Known Weather Prognosticator Like You Doing With My Prize Poppy In Your Mouth?" Judy

Great title, Judy!

I know just what you meaning about getting to know folk online.. in person, you'd have seen my wry expression as I rolled my eyes and shrugged in exasperation, and you'd have known I wasn't some anti-wildlife Rambo, just a gardener who'd tried everything else to keep those groundhogs out of the garden! LOL

When I went over to Southern States to get my groundhog-sized Havahart trap, a farmer told me "the easiest way to get rid of groundhogs." He wads up a bunch of bailing twine and stuffs it down the hole. He says they get tangled in the twine. Now that really turned my stomach, the idea of getting a critter stuck and leaving it to die of dehydration. It doesn't matter how many rows of strawberries they pull up (taking one bite of each plant, mind you, before moving to the next one), I won't be doing that! :-)

I have been noticing less damage to tomatoes and peppers since I put some water sources out in my yard, so maybe there's something to the theory that groundhogs and rabbits go after veggies in part just because they're thirsty.

?

Hi Judy! and welcome. Do not worry if you think Holly is Skitzophrenic, this is Ric, Holly's husband and free laborer. I'm the shy one and use Holly's log-in on Dave's, since they don't do family discounts. I try to always sign my post to try and avoid confusion.
I would rather catch and release a weather prognosticator, near water in a pastoral setting than harm it. We've become quite adept in GH relos and have had no complaints, but then again we've had no return customers either. LOL Ric

LOL That is a great title. LOL
I have a ground level water dish out by the bird feeders as well. But not near the Veggie Garden. I don't have much trouble with bunnies other than tree seedlings in the winter. Those rascally rabbits. Holly

OMG< shortly after posting I went off line. Immediately, my phone rang and a voice identified as "Rambi" began to speak, saying he had been following the gh discussions on DG and felt it was time to speak personally to someone and he chose me because my title came closest to the truth!

Rambi (not Rambo he emphasized) was the very same gh that Ric had posted a picture of earlier in the thread.My mind is still reeling; let me try to remember what he said...
Oh, yes, He went on and on about the predicting the weather thing calling it the world's biggest PR coop, a stroke of genius that gave great cover to the groundhogs real work .In fact he said he was a direct descendant of Rasmus the groundhog who convinced the producer to make the film "Groundhog Day" Upon this pronouncement he whistled three low short notes and paused.

He began again in a serious tone. "The real work of Groundhogs is to unite all of the tunnels on earth and at the meeting place of all tunnels to gather stones from far and near (which curiously resemble ripe cantelopes??) and with them to build the great golden mother burrow wherein all may rest and be at peace." Wow, I whispered.

"But what about the red poppies?" I asked."Exactly", he continued. He explained that over the centuries of digging below ground that their ability to see was greatly diminished.and that "sight of the unseen" was necessary to envision where each new tunnel was to be dug and connection made.to the tunnels of the ancient ones. To see again each Master Tunneler must locate a perfect red poppy and ingest it just before it blooms. Many are tasted but few are chosen.
"Oh, that explains it then", I said. " Explains what ?"he said, and the line went dead.
I hope he calls back.

Judy

This message was edited Jul 13, 2010 6:52 PM

ROFLOL!

"great golden mother burrow" *snicker*

I guess I'd better sow some red poppies for them next spring... :-)

ROFLOL,

^_^ !!!!!!!

Not having to water again today thanks to storms last nite gives me time to post a few more things Rambi said in passing.

Evidently this loss of sight thing is quite serious. He said that most are able to recognize objects the size of or larger than cantalopesHe muttered something about "darned soccer balls" and when pressed admitted that many cantalopes had been collected by "pseudo" or was it "neophyte" tunnelers instead of the stones they resemble for lining the golden burrow. He said that early on decisions were made not to return false stones after the mistake was discovered, but to eat them as a means of disposal and to decrease the odds of other false stones being gathered. Thus they discovered that eating the false stones enabled tunnelers to come to the surface less frequently and the eating of same has never fully died out.

Rambi said they can see the color red but must go by feel for much else which is why they prefer vines and long stemmed food sources or rows of plants. I think he put it, "It may take all day to find one, but once you do you are on to something."

Oh, and one more thing, Ric, he may try to contact you about that pastoral setting. Evidentally there is some sort of gathering of the MAAGHA planned for later this year and the setting sounded ideal.

He did say something more about tunnels but I don't have my notes handy.

Judy

Rambis did find my young pumpkin vines one year and neatly trimmed each leaf. How lazy of me letting them sprawl all over. And took care of the zinnias that were heartlessly blocking light from shorter things.

LOL, Did he mention his fondness for Sweet Potatoes? I remember a few years ago that he thoroughly enjoyed all our Sweet Potatoes including my Ornamental Sweet Potatoes growing in a tire stack. He had to climb up to reach the top ones but he did manage to pretty much get all of them. Ric will get back to you with the info on the pastoral setting. I know how important the MAAGHA meeting must be. LOL Holly

I have had reasonable ground hog success while using a dead-fall. This was a sure way for early trappers to capture small animals. While using melon bait on the trigger we have been able to control our suburban problems much better than with the quiet .177 pellet gun. Anyone interested give Google a job.

Now someone recently has told me to use a fresh sticky corn cob as bait in have a heart traps. I will try that in addition to the dead-fall which I really like.

On my small property my hog count is three removed to date. This year's newborn are now moving in and out daily. One got hit out front earlier this week. I put them in the ground under my compost piles. Within a year they are compost.

Our game commission reports that anyone has a right to protect their gardens from hog damage. If the burrow is on your property smoke bombs work well when directions are followed.

Looks like almost one year--exactly--has passed since the last Post on this topic.

Thought it may be of some use to BUMP it up to the present....
Need some activity on the MAF!!!!

Just to make it relevant---the rabbits ate most of the blooms off of my
newly purchased pot of large marigolds.
My own fault--I put it in an open spot in my bed--and forgot about it... Paid for it!!!

So far, I had only seen an older rabbit meandering around.....
Just today--I saw a juvenile-sized one. WHERE did he come from????
Must be some "immaculate deception"......

Gita

You didn't see the adults cuz they were in the bedroom...

My worst pest this year is Asian Beetles the coffee bean sized june bug shaped cinnamon brown see them every night by the porch lights. I've been out in the garden a couple nights after dark and see a number of them on chrysanthemim, potato foliage, brugs, montauk daisies, mints---if you have any mystery of leaves getting eaten up yet you see no bugs, got out around eleven pm and prepare to be shocked. Better yet take a cup of soapy water, and wear a headlamp.

The squash bugs are getting going good now. I found many eggs clusters last week, and seeing more juveniles this week.

Asian beetles??????
What do they look like??? Take a picture in your midnight forays.....Sally....

Saw a Stink Bug on my KK Hibiscus buds yesterday. need to go out with a soapy cup as well....

I am growing 2 Zucchinis this year--for the first time....
Should I be concerned? maybe the Squash Bugs still haven't found where i live....
Hope they never do....
My little Cukes are doing great! I have picked about 7 or 8 by now....Some String Beans too...

Tine to make a great cucumber salad--or some more pickles....

Gita

Asiatic garden beetle- this has a good description and a pic or two.
http://bugs.osu.edu/~bugdoc/Shetlar/factsheet/turf/Asiaticgardenbeetle.htm
but does not talk about control in your garden; it is written for turf management.
I've been spraying the targeted plants with a general insecticide.

I killed a Japanese beetle last week, but they don't seem as bad as some years. Maybe the skunks who dug my garden all winter got most of the grubs. I have two bug zappers on at night. They make a noticeable difference with the gnats. Previous years, they zapped enough beetles to have to sweep the sidewalk of beetle carcasses each morning. They also get the asiatic beetle. They are hard to distinguish from the Japanese beetles after zapping. I have the zappers set for 'dawn to dusk" to minimize effects on beneficial insects.

Poor Wiston the pug gets swarmed by gnats. Luckily, herbal bug repellent keeps them at bay. I finally got his food allergies under control, now he has itchy bug bites. He lets me put tee tree oil or Benedryl gel on them. He is a good sport about the herbal bug repellent. I spray deet on my clothes and herbal repellent on skin. It is a workable compromise between herbal and chemical repellents. I get a blood test for lyme's disease every year from my doctor, just in case.

I am sure that I mentioned this earlier, but my friend and the neighbor had a creative means of rodent elimination. I live in a town home with a so called maintenance staff and resent having to deal with this myself. Anyway, one guy goes in the upstairs bathroom and turns on the ceiling fan (which vents to the narrow "no crawl" space - a dead void of energy efficiency between the sheet rock and the roof and the mostly vaulted ceilings - commonwealth building codes are different from NY/NJ codes) They guy in the bathroom smokes a cigar while the other waits with an air rifle to see the rodents escaping - they run from fire and smoke. After the smoking and shooting fun are over, someone climbs a ladder and seals the escape hole. If no one likes cigars, incense sticks, punks or other smoke may work as well. The neighbor shoots rodents (but not cute bunnies) out the window with his air rifle when he gets bored. It has been keeping the rodent population at bay.

The neighbor's cat, Samson, likes to sit on my chair and watch the bug zapper. Sometimes he naps under my Wildeve rose. He can come to my place and hunt rodents anytime. Luckily, he does his "business" elsewhere. Samson seems to be able to negotiate a truce with Samson. Other cats get barked at and chased out of the garden, but not Samson.

There is a stray cocker spaniel type dog running around. I saw him early one morning without a collar or leash. I tried to call him/catch him, but he was scared. I assumed he belonged to a neighbor because he seemed to be in relatively good health. The next day, my friend and I saw him running along the road while heading to Walmart. We stopped and called him, but he ran away sacred. I have been putting a little bit of dog food in a bowl outside. Something has been eating it, but that could be Samson or another cat, or the bunnies, or some other rodent. If I am able to, I will try to catch the poor guy and either rescue him myself if he gets along with Winston the pug, or help rescue find him another home.

I have also seen more toads than usual this year. I stacked some rocks into "toad houses" in the northern "tiger garden". I even caught and released a couple of toads while walking Winston the pug at night. If any of the neighbors were awake, they must think I am crazy - the crazy plant rescuing, dog walking woman, toad catching woman. I am lucky that they no longer burn eccentric single women at the stake for witchcraft.

Hope everyone is keeping cool and enjoying their summer blooms!

I have an unusual pest! I have monarch catapillars on my parsley and fennel. We even have a patch of milkweed for the butterflys. lol I wonder if I could encourage them to climb over to the milkweed. Ric

All together we relocated 4 ground hogs this week, they were starting to invade the garden. I'm so glad they can't resist cantalope rind, it makes it almost too easy. Ric Here's the fennel

Someone just corrected me, and said they are swallowtails. oops

This message was edited Jul 27, 2011 10:38 AM

Sorry Ric, those are not Monarchs, those are the parsley ones. They wouldn't appreciate any encouragement to go on the milkweed tee hee. Have you touched them at all? They react by sticking these orange things out of their heads, fun to play with. I have a big fennel clump that they attack every year now.
monarchs are striped a little differently

This message was edited Jul 27, 2011 9:45 AM

Ric, our dog relocated one last week (chuck)
Do you use the larger live trap? My squirrel trap must be too little, they don't want to squeeze into it even for cantalope. Opening about 8 inches square. It may be too short for them to get trapped by it, but don't even seem to have nibbled the cantalope.

Sally, We borrow a really large trap. Jamie has access to them and brings one home for a couple of days when we need one. I don't know that they would get into a smaller squirrel trap. Holly

Sally--

If you plan to use traps, HD sells 3 sizes...
Squirrel
Rabbit/cat
and the Lg. one--raccoon. This would work for a G-Hog.

You can find these in the aisle where all the bug sprays and ant, and mouse, and rat, etc. stuff is.
They come boxed--you may have to look in the above shelves for them.
Don't hold me to this--but I think the med. one sells for $29...something...

Sometimes you can also borrow a trap from the Humane Society or from a Vet.

Gita.

thanks, both!

Those darn rabbits have moved from the California poppies and are starting to nibble rose canes, clematis and dahlia. I miss Tiffany. It is time for Winston the pacifist pug to get a terrier friend! In the meantime, I am using up some old hot sauce in the fridge to make diy rabbit-be-gone spray with pepper sauce and dawn dish soap. I put it in an old miracle grow sprayer and mist the plants after I am done watering.

There was a big black snake on my back patio. I really don't like snakes, but if it deals with the rodent problem, it can hang out in the tiger garden. I make lots of noise before working in the garden so that we don't surprise each other.

My friend has a big ground hog digging by his house. He has been trying to get it to move on. I told him to try peeing there and putting hair from his hair brush around the area. I'll tell him about the humane traps and the cantaloupe.

Quilts---

Tell your friend to find the hole the Groundhog lives in.
Then stuff some old rags into the opening soaked with Ammonia.
They will never come near it....Refresh the Ammonia every 3-4 days....

If the "hog" will not move on--get a trap and bait it and then re-locate the Ground Hog a5t least 5 miles away.
Be considerate--Give him a woodland setting,,,,near water....GEEZ! WHY??????

I have had 2 so far--and the Ammonia has worked great,,,,Cheap too....

Gita

I'll tell him. I think he would relocate him to groundhog heaven. I doubt he would want a groundhog in the car. Winston has been banned from the car because he sheds.

I forgot your ammonia cure gita. that might be good for voles too on a smaller scale.

My neighbor finally got rid of the voles by putting a lit road flare down the hole. I wasn't there when he did it, but it smelled terrible afterward. They vacated that hole, finally.

Garden quilts---

Home Depot sells CO2 bombs. same idea. They come 4 to a pack.
You light them and throw them down the hole. The carbon Monoxide vapors will kill the critters....
I guess it would help to stuff up all the other entrances and exits.....

I have an update on the groundhog. It hasn't returned since my friend started urinating in and around its tunnel. It may still be digging at the far end of the yard, but my friend was only concerned with the digging against the house. It may be a free way to deter groundhogs - time will tell. If not, he thinks it would be fun to trap the groundhog and relocate him to downtown Newark. As long as he doesn't relocate him to PA, I don't care.

Maybe your relatives didn't eat the groundhog because of disease? Raccoons and groundhogs are likely candidates for rabies.

The minute I saw bite marks on my rosebushes, I declared war on the rodent overpopulation. I would gladly plant the critters their own little garden of their favorite plants if they would leave mine alone! Previous years, they nibbled on the lettuce seeds that I planted near the fence and stayed away from my garden. Not this year. I could tolerate a bit of nibbling, but they are destroying a garden's worth of plants that have taken me years to gather and grow. I carefully budgeted the money to buy them. I can't afford to replace them all in one year. Why would I want to do that if they only got destroyed again? Instead, I am spending my gardening time and budget getting rid of the pests.

The problem with trapping and relocating vermin is that the places that you are relocating them to don't want them! It has been common practice for some counties in NJ to relocate their varmints over the border in PA - where I live. Some animals are territorial and wouldn't be welcome in another territory (such as chipmunks and squirrels). Others will return to their original home (like bears). I am not aware of any reliable birth control for rodents, so there is only one reliable option to reduce the population. Ways to prevent overpopulation is to use sealed garbage containers, stop putting out rodent feeders aka bird feeders and encouraging native plants. We have an overpopulation of rodents because we are feeding them more food than they would gather in the wild. My rodent population explosion began when numerous neighbors put up bird feeders. The bears have found them as well. Bears were walking up and down the sidewalk in search of sunflower seeds in bird feeders. Thank goodness they didn't break in anyone's home to raid the kitchen - yet. Parts of NJ have begun banning bird seed feeders, I can't wait until PA follows suit. I don't even know if the birds digest the darn seeds. I have a "new weed" this year that looks like a nickle sized clump of grass. I pulled out literally hundreds of these "weeds" from flower pots, wintersowing containers, the garden, until I realized it was undigested bird seed courtesy to the birds and my neighbor. Is she spending her money on Metameucil for birds? They aren't digesting the seed, just increasing their fiber intake?

I love watching the birds, but I think a better strategy to feed them is researching the native plants that the birds favor and encouraging them in the landscape. A sacrilegious suggestion in the land of manicured lawns and rodent aka bird feeders, I know. Besides, it is easier to buy bird seed at Walmart than to think, read and learn about wildlife online or at the library.