Grafting Japanese Maple

Does anyone know if you can graft Acer Palmatum on Acer ginnala stock? If not, does anyone know where I can find the answer?

There's a Japanese Maple forum here, I bet you someone there would know.

The family is "ACER" . Grafts in family usually work. What you can not do is something like trying to graft a Nothern Spy apple variety to a pine tree unless you are trying for a Northern Pineapple.

If your mother tree is large enough you could make a few grafts on new growth from last year of any limb and see what happens. If it works then go on with your grafting as you see fit. Any good book will show you how to graft. Usually it is best done just befor new growth starts in your early spring period when the buds are just about to start swelling but befor they have grown much. My grafting has been more than fifty percent good doing it in the early spring. I have done English Walnuts on the previous years water spouts of a Black Walnut seedling the squirrels plantedl showing up from the stump where I cut off the whole tree. This graft will produce huge English Walnuts up to twice the size of the English Walnuts on the more vigerous Black Walnut's new growth. The friend who taught me this wins yearly prizes in our fairs for his success. The negative here is that the huge nut meats do not grow likewise as large as the nut shell. They are however just as tasty and somewhat larger meats on the grafted trees. This would not be good commercially but it makes a bragging size nut shell. The squirrels have a fit trying to get them broken open . That is good because we get to eat a few for that reason.

Unfortunately, the parent belongs to a neighbor and I don't think they would approve of my trying a graft on their tree. Perhaps I will ask anyway. I have seedlings of both the Acer Pplmatum and Acer ginnala so it will take me a year to find out on my own. I guess patience is the biggest part of these types of experiments.

Interesting experience with your walnuts. I would have expected the meat to grow to fill the shell. Much of what I have read indicates that the root stock doesn't change the top part of the graft. Apparently, your experience says it does.

Thanks for the information. I can't wait to try some grafting. I have been reading a lot about it and am anxious to try some this i the time of year to do it.

Hey............not to mention the just plain fun one has with such goings on. Most of my grafting associates do not use the waxes or anything to cover the graft except the wrap to hold it in place.
The whole issue depends on the cambium layers touching each other to put Mother to work for you. I have an orchard associate that makes up to five thousand grafts every spring. He claims about 75% success when he does it and about 50% when employed persons do it. As a hobby he loves to make five different grafts on a three year seedling fruit tree. I think he may sell some of those to the mail order trade too. I've seen bundles of a dozen in a package going through his packing and shipping department. Trick.....he holds thousands of cuttings for grafts in a cold high humidity room. That translates to your fridge wrapped in damp paper towels and a baggie. He makes a fresh cut the day of the grafting. In this case he can extend the grafting period a week or so. I've never held any more than an hour or so befor making the union. Done right with a good take the graft will be stronger than the nurse stock stem or the following top growth after a year in the nursery.

The books make it interesting but that cambium to cambium is the only absolute need. Make your cuts as long a taper as possible. You can make a single taper on each part or if the parts are the same size split the mother stem and double taper your cutting. Wrap them good with strechy gause from the drug store and step back and watch the magic happen. You will not find many gardeners that have done this. Even if you do each will have a little different opinon how to acheive success. I just went out there one day and started doing it. Still do on occasion.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am going to start this week as soon as it stops raining. I have been wanting to do this for years and am finally in a position to start trying it. I have had a lot of success and fun propagating cuttings in an aeropropagator I built last fall and am ready to take the fun outdoors now that it is Spring.

G'Day Billgrubs,
If your stock trees are in full growth you might like to see if the bark will lift cleanly if it does try some T buds if the bark does not lift easily then the grafts will be more successful. I do not agree with the above statement that if plants are in the same family then they will graft. My experience would indicate that varieties of the same species no problems, interspecific usually OK but not always, intergeneric sometimes but careful study of past history is essential for success. This last equates to "In the same family". The most common in this catergory, I would think, would be Apricots onto Plum Stock, not all Apricots are compatible with Plum and this is where the past history comes in. Sometimes a stock / scion combination is successful but if the roles are reversed there is incompatibility. You can always experiment and you will know in a couple of weeks if you have been successful.
Best of luck Billgrubs.
Regards Brian

Geese.............. intellegently criticized by an intellegent Ausse. This is good. However if my word family (often commonely used) was in fact the same as the technically correct term (species) there would be no disagreement. All this person asking the question wanted to do was use what she has read about and ask a simple question. She got her answer and a whole bunch more that there was no stated interest in. She only ask about acer to acer. That works so why be like a lot of preachers and dump the whole load which could easily confuse and even discourage a stated beginer? I often wish I was closer to such questions. Hands on help would be so good for beginers. I've trained a few along the way. One or two of them actually got really good with just a little start up help and coaching.

G'Day Docgipe. It appears that I annoyed you a bit, Sorry that was not my intention. The extra info was just an illustration of what could occur in any grafting combination, it was not intended to be an exercise in propagating apricots. I have no experience with Acer so can't comment directly about them. Also I have had previous "conversations" with Billgrubs and he is aware of my history with plant propagation.
Once again sorry for upsetting you.
Brian

This message was edited Apr 17, 2009 5:39 AM

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions and help. Glad to see you are still around Brian. I have asked the Acer to Acer question of several people and no one I can find has ever tried it. I don't have any stock mature enough to try it this year, but definitely will try it next year. I have lots of seedlings from both that need to grow up.

At Stake's suggestion, I am attending a grafting class today from the local extension service. I plan to start grafting today after the demonstration. I have a sharp knife and lots of ambition to make this work. It is something I have wanted to do for a long time and it looks like today is the day. I will let you know how it works out.

G'Day Billgrub. I'm pleased to know that you are able to attend an instruction course. There is nothing like seeing it done rather than reading descriptions of the operations..
With your Acer, if the stock is from about 1/8th" in diameter you could graft it using the Cleft graft if you feel that at that size it is too small to Whip & Tongue.
Will wait in anticipation to hear of your successes in a short time.
Regards Brian

G'Day Billgrubs. Just read in a nursery magazine that Acer are best grafted using the side graft. This leaves the leaves of the stock in place to feed the new scion. This method is best for conifers and a number if broad leaf trees Oaks etc. A photo of the grafts is on the Australian site but I will repost one here. The rootstock is simulated with the short piece for the photo in a real situation the stock would be a growing plant. The side graft is third from bottom.
Regards Brian

This message was edited Apr 20, 2009 1:47 AM

This is a better photo of the side graft Billgrubs.
Brian

Thanks for the information Brian! The pictures are especially helpful.

The class was for grafting apple trees. Though it was informative, they had a special cutting tool that cut both the scion and root stock exact and all you had to do was stick them together. I was hoping they would teach how to do it with a knife. I get the general idea. All I need is practice now. Unfortunately, Spring is here and most of the trees and shrubs are already leafing out. I thought I may try my hand at grafting a rose, but they have already started leafing out. Looks like I will have to wait until next year for them. I am certainly going to try some bud grafting though.

Want to play.......you can take a semi-hardened or soft cutting about eight inches long and stick it right in your rose garden. Cover it with a quart jar or half gallon milk container. By fall you will have about 50% success rooting your cutting with or without rooting hormones. The shade of the growing roses is usually enough to assure they will not get full or direct sunlight. Do this on the shady side of your growing plants. Transplant your rooted cutting the following spring.

I will definitely be sticking cuttings this year. I tried rooting several rose cuttings last fall in my newly built aeropropagator, but lost all but a few. It was a good experiment and I learned a lot doing it. It was late in the year and not as easy to root as a good soft cutting. I have heard of the jar technique and will try it this year.

Brian,

Can you tell me where I can find the grafting info you mentioned on the Australia forum?

G'Day Billgrubs.
Go to Australian Gardening select page 2 then Budding & Grafting Plants. This is the one with the photo of my knives that you have already seen so you'll recognise it OK. The first bit is reference to the info I gave you in this forum but down a bit you will see the grafting photos.
Please feel free to ask any questions you have and I will try to answer them. There are a few photos showing the methods I use but if you would like a photo from a different angle then I should be able to fix one up.
It is a shame that your grafting course was only showing the use of machines because manual grafting allows you to see all the relevant parts of the plant and see if a part is faulty.
Some years ago I was watching one of these machines being used and was told that the % take was not as good as manual grafting because the machine couldn't tell if the plant was alive or dead where as with a knife you can feel immediately if the wood is even a little bit dry and discard it.
Hope you get some added info from the Australian Forum and you might find that if the season is too advanced for grafting then one of the budding techniques should work. If you use the current seasons wood for a scion I have found it helpful to cover the graft with a plastic bag to prevent drying out while the union is being initiated.
Regards Brian

Bian,
The pictures and descriptions are great! I know how much time it takes to set that up and describe it in detail. It just makes me itching to go graft something. I am least going to do some of the practice grafts and see if I can do it without cutting off my thumb.

Thanks again for all your help. It certainly would be neat to pay you a visit. Nothing like having the expert as a coach as you do it.

Bill

I agree with the comments about the grafting tool. Another reason it is less effective is the fact that it cuts straight through or accross the wood. If not maintained in razor sharp condition it mashes its way through. Even when razor sharp the cut must be made quickly. Not all hands can use the tool properly for strength reasons. The parts must be very close to the same size or when put together full contact with the cambium layers can not be maintained. All of my orchard associates opt to use the sharp knife to prep their grafts. All use streachy gause or other material to wrap the graft. I don't think any use a wax or oil coating over the wrapping.

That is good enough for me. I am looking for stretchy gause tomorrow and I am going to graft something just for the fun of it. Maybe a rose since the are easier than some things. If I could find a rootstock for a HLWS I would try grafting one of those, but it is probably too late anyway.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I feel I have enough knowledge to be dangerous. Now I need the practice.

G'Day Billgrubs.
I don't know this gauze but it must work OK. I did see some years ago but that was impregnated with wax to waterproof it. It was real messy to use because the wax stuck to your hands. I think I told you before that we use PVC tape formulated for the job and you would have seen that in my demo photos. Try them all and see what suits you best.
You are not too late to bud graft that can be done as long as the bark is lifting. See T bud photo.
Regards Brian

Thanks Brian

Well, I did my first real grafts last night. I found some hibiscus in my garden that had already started to bud, but grafted them anyway so I could say I did. I am sure it is too late and they probably won't live, but it was exciting anyway. As glad as I am to see winter gone, I wish I could back it up just a little so I could graft more plants. Patience is a vitrue???

Streachy gause now has several different names. Look on the gause and tape display at your local drug store. My wife the RN can capture a few inches end of roll from the nursing home in which she pinch hits out of retirement. I did not see gause in that name but several tapes that were open for air passage. Same difference as compaired to trapping moisture and inviting possible fungal problems.

Along these same lines you could use streachy cord round elastic found in all sewing center outlets to tie off a graft open to air.

I don't know how to do it, but I think some of you who are experienced at grafting should create a separate forum for grafting. There is a lot of good information on this site in various places concerning grafting, but it is buried where it is difficult to find. The principles are good for many types of plants. I a very happy with what I have learned and have saved various suggestions because I have a hard time finding them again, but I think others would benefit from having everything in a specific forum.

I second your suggestion on a grafting forum . I've read the books and spent the money for material and expensive trees to take buds and scions from , waited for late winter , grew seedlings for two years , then couldn't find the information again . It would be so time consuming to save the whole threads . Some of that info ,terminology , is beyond me and it would be nice to ask questions and get answers back in a timely manner . Even on propagation forum , it's almost impossible to find what you want , when you want it , a year or more later . Could print it off if my printer wasn't on the blink half the time . Sorry for venting , guess I'm having a bad hair day . digger

G'Day All,
I have contacted Admin about a special forum for grafting & budding, but at this stage there is not enough interest to warrant it.
I will start a new thread in propagation to see if enough members respond indicating that there is interest in the subject.
Regards Brian

Hugs, brian . digger