A daughter is a daughter for all of her life...a son is a ..

I have asked friends and have asked family.. but I have to ask the DG community because I value the collective insight. (You are all smart thoughtful folks.) I want to ask a question about grandparenting... and connections between a daughter's child and a son's child.. (Mothers / fathers of sons only or grandmother/fathers to sons only are also requested to offer insight if you have it.) I have a daughter with a child (a grandson who is 5) and now my son and his wife have presented us with a beautiful granddaughter (6 weeks). My mother in law (who was the BEST mother-in-law) told me once that there is a difference in how you feel/respond to a daughter's child as compared to a son's child. . I said Bah Humbug - Nonsense!! But, now that I have experienced a child from each.. I do feel the difference. With my daughter's child as an infant -- I felt no restrictions, no reluctance to speak my mind, offer an opinion or suggestion whatsoever. I felt no timidness about picking up the child or changing him or reprimanding him or 'can he have this' 'do you want me to change him' 'may I do this or that?' sort of stuff. Now that I have a much awaited granddaughter, I find that I am very uncomfortable and reluctant to be me. I should say that my daughter in law is really a nice gal. There are no issues. We have a good relationship - it is sort of polite as she is reserved (I speak my mind and she wouldn't dream of it and when we are all yelling at each other (Italian household) she thinks we are mad etc. She is an only child..small family) but all in all - we have a good working relationship. It is rather more 'polite' than I like it, but it is not bad. Our relationship with our son is very close. He still likes to 'hang out' with us and does so often. (My son in law thinks nothing of telling me what he thinks --whether he thinks I will like it or not --I do feel more motherly to him than I do to this daughter-in law but I think that will come with time.) Anyway, we get along fine. But, I just don't feel as free to 'grandmother' this new baby as I do my daughter's son and I worry that that level of 'connection' won't be there as I want it to be. What do you all think? Is this normal? Those of you with grandkids from children of both sexes.. do you feel this way? IS there a difference? Before the birth of this child, I would have said No Way!

Your mother certainly hit it right on the nail...yep, different when you have sons...I thread carefully at the best of times..lol

Good luck

Betty - please expand if you will

Different how? In how you act or in how you feel?

No matter how hard we try our daughters remain close to us more so than our sons. And this holds true for Daughters-in-law as well. They remain close THEIR mothers. I don't think it's a concious thing on their part to make us not feel close but we are NOT their mothers. I find with my DILs that the more I stay quiet about anything that may be construed as a criticism, the better I get along with them (I have two) I always try to ask how THEY would like things done and offer to help in any way I can. I have found that they (I have two DIL) seldom will ask for advice but when they do I feel they really want my input. I have NOT found there to be any difference in how I feel about the grandchildren. I love them all dearly and feel they return that love. I have two that live 2000 miles away but we are and feel just as close to them as to the four that live nearby.
The hardest thing we do as mothers is to let our children live their own lives. I have found that by doing just that our relationship is a good one. Think back to when you became a mother too. Did you want anyone else doing for your child? Did you feel more comfortable with your own mother being with your child as opposed to your MIL?
All these feelings you are experiencing are normal ones that we all go through. With time the right equation will work itself out and you'll see there was no reason to stress over it. Just LOVE them all with all your heart.

Thanks for the input. Well my husband had an aunt that drove me nuts with the kids. I'd say - don't give the bottle now or don't pick up let the baby stay in the little seat and she's say 'Phew, the baby needs some loving and out of the chair the baby would go or the bottle would go in. She'd offer all sorts of advice (she had no children) My MIL never did that. My mom was long distance. Well, I guess time will tell. It is not my DIL making me feel this way - it feels like it is being generated from me -- I just feel less comfortable doing what I think should be natural and feeling like I should ask permission --like I would do with a casual friend or someone's child that has a lesser connection.

I sometimes have felt that way myself but it doesn't last long. I think maybe you want to do everything the way the new Mom wants it to be due to your experience with your DH's aunt. It takes a while to learn your DIL's ways and the natural feeling will come then. And to me the best thing you can do and the quickest way to learn her ways IS to ask her permission. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm sure she would appreciate the fact that you recognise that she is the Mom. I'm sure she is dealing with others telling how and what to do. She will appreciate your restraint and a closer bond is usually the result. Best wishes and LOVE that new one.
Barb

Just back to the thread,
Think Barb describe it to a 't'....

Thanks Betty. After having three boys and a girl of my own and then six grandchildren I at least feel knowledgable to comment. I find as long as I don't pressure any of them or make them feel they "Have" to do something it usually takes care of itself. There are two things I think hold true. One was that my job as a mother was to make them as independent as possible. Another thing I learned was that if I was afraid of the answer-don't ask the question (Once they were adults!of course - one must always ask kids) . Holds true today as well as then.

Another thing I learned was that if I was afraid of the answer-don't ask the question ---- YOU GOT THAT PART REALLY RIGHT.

But, I can remember times that I lay awake at night IMAGINING the worst answers to the questions that I would not ask! HA!

I do appreciate all words of wisdom. You would think I was a novice...with 14 of us kids and all the nieces and nephews and advice/experiences that I have at hand. It just has bothered me so that I didn't feel the same 'connected-ness' as I did when grandson born. I really felt 'disconnected' in a fundamental way and that feeling lingers still. I am just getting used to it and wondered if that was normal. I should be asking myself why I felt I had the right to take such liberties with my daughter. So glad she ended up being a very laid back mother who tolerates HER mother pretty well.

That's one of the beauties of daughters.....We DO stay close to Mom. Makes us appreciate our own Moms more too.

I have four brothers. I'm the only girl. Mom worried WAAAAY more about me than she did the boys. I have a daughter and I worry all the time about her. And she's 30! ☺

hi, i thought id give the dil point of view. my mil really freaked me out . we have an ok relationship . i dont like her that much but i hide it and would never treat her bad . that being said she called the baby her baby every chance she got , wanted to buy a car seat for herself and crib for her house . so even though i see that she was exited it still freaks a pregnant girl out . like is she gonna kidnap the baby or something. i know you are not like that . i dont know how to describe it . they are our husbands mother but there isnt a connection .i hate to say it but they are almost strangers.i didnt even want his side in the hospital room seeing me all wrecked . but thats me im very private and its different in every family . id say dont tell her what to do and dont do any thing unless you ask but you shouldnt feel any different about the baby . my mom gets all bent out of shape when someone tells her dont do this or that with a baby . shes been around so many . what she dosnt realize is that when someone is pregnant now adays the drs have all these dos and donts that they drill into out heads . they make us feel like we are bad moms if we dont do it exactly like they say . so when a lady in the family wants to feed the baby something new mothers get on edge because of what the drs have said. it takes a while to realize its ok to not be so strict. its not just the mil . it comes from all sides our own familys included so dont feel bad .new mothers may feel the same about their own mother but wont say it .

That's why I always asked!!! I really think that young people have good heads on their shoulders and the last thing they want is "Do it this way or that way"..Hope I have been able to help keep things in perspective for you all..

I had meant to reply to this thread before but got busy with other things. I think one reason you may feel this way is that we tend to mother a similar way to how we were mothered. The way I mother my own children is much closer to how my own mom mothered my siblings and me rather than how MIL mothered DH and his siblings. I think that makes it so there's less need to ask questions/permission. Also, the bond between mother and child is huge. I'm definitely more comfortable sharing that with my mom, with whom I also share that kind of bond. I've grown to greatly respect my MIL over the years but she's not the one who cared for me for the first 20 years of my life. My mom knows my better than anyone. The only one who might know me better (but in different ways) is DH. My mom knows me well enough to know that even though my sister was totally fine with my mom giving her son a taste of ice cream at 6 months, I would not approve of that for my children - and she respects my wishes enough that she didn't even try.

The other thing is that I really have to make an effort to reach out to my MIL. If I need help with anything the first person I call is my mom, she's the one who has ALWAYS been there for me. If I'm going to have someone care for my children, my first thought is my mom. (Not that that would work with us living so far away from her.) An example of this is a couple summers ago DD was about 8 months old. We were having a family reunion at our house for DH's family. Since our older DD was getting baptized that weekend my parents were there too. Whenever I needed someone to hold DD it was just automatic that I gave her to my mom. Often, my mom would then pass her to my MIL (which I thought was very considerate). After a while I would offer DD to my MIL but it definitely wasn't my first instinct.

As a side note. My children love both grandparents and don't seem to have a favourite. DD will often ask to call Grandma and she calls my MIL just as often as my own mom. As the kids get older they develop their own relationship with their grandparents. One thing that I think is remarkable is that MIL gets the most perfect gifts for our children. She asks us for a bit of guidance but I'm always stunned with the things she comes up with. We told her that DD likes horses and art things so she got her a 'how to draw horses book' and a sketch pad. DD was thrilled.

Thanks Gilli and Iris - I was hoping for input from the DILs out there!! And again --I appreciate everyone's advice.

OK OK I put up the crib (Not new purchase, I had it put away from my grandson and I did not get a car seat) I figured that when visiting the baby would need a place to sleep. BUT that is as crazy as I got - truly!! I do understand how the instincts go with feeling more comfortable with your own mother. I am a mother to a daughter who also had a baby and I have to remind her all the time to include her husbands mother (who smokes around the baby and so that is a no no to my daughter.) It IS natural but it can also be hurtful to MIL when the baby doesn't come your way when both mothers are there. It isn't too often that the 'son' has the baby and hands it to his mom...and so.... it would be nice if DIL remembers to do that. Ditto for babysitting etc., but I can certainly understand how it wouldn't feel uncomfortable asking your own mom to babysit but it might asking MIL to do it --like asking for a favor from a stranger maybe. My DIL says the same thing about the presents. I had a silver upside down triangle made from wrapped silver wire made especially for her and in the top (the wide end) I nested a little amethyst ..it looked like a cradle but modern --baby's stone is amethyst. DIL loved it as a memory for the birth and our 'thank you' to her for a Good Job! And, I did the baby's room just like she wanted with picket fencing and all - definitely not my style but it came out just like DIL wanted and that was my goal. I think I am a good MIL and don't put in two cents. I know how it can be to feel defensive in strange waters (motherhood). But on the otherhand... here is an example. I asked about the christening gown. DIL said the minister (a lady) gave the baby a dress that she would wear.. it was white with small flowers at bib... I was disappointed --I didn't say so but I wanted to get the gown but had been waiting to ask in case DIL had one already. She said if that dress was too big.. she would get out her christening gown from attic. OK that is fine I sent her a few photos of handmade gowns that I saw that I liked and said IF the dress is too big and or if your gown doesn't work out...look at these.. the baptism is just a few weeks from now and you don't want to have to look/rush last minute. That was the last I heard. No response to the email. Meanwhile I had a little slip made with the baby's initials embroidered on it and the birthdate so that in years to come maybe HER children could wear. There was a little flowered dress also that I made to go with it. Last night I hear...the minister's dress didn't work.... the attic dress too yellow.... so DIL goes to JC Pennys and buys a christening dress. I also emailed her some photos of tiny white and creme hand felted maryjane shoes ...said I'd like to buy the baby her shoes. No word on that either. I said nothing about no baptism in our church or our faith. I said nothing about many things that I feel could have been done differently to perhaps recognize another set of grandparents, but I think that the 'nothing's' aren't heard (because I haven't said them) and so no credit or appreciation that they aren't said is given. Does that make sense? When the baby born.. we visited at the hospital... and then made a weeks meals and brought (1/2 hour visit) and then one other in the first month. DILs mom there every day. I (and my spouse!!) invited to the delivery room (we were out of town (baby 3 weeks early) but had declined anyway!) said we would be right there in waiting room. DIL mom sat in chair at the foot of the delivery bed for 8 hours! eeeeeeeech.. Anyway, I am being petty right?? I try to be unobtrusive etc., but I do feel not so much like a grandma about now... OH WOE IS ME!! a pity party!!

Well, my experience has been quit different. My mother and I were very different people although we loved one another. My daughter is very like her and they were very close but since her death my daughter and I are polite to one another.
I have three boys and I love them to death. I am very close to all three and plan to move closer to them (they live in three different cities) when I retire.
Each of my oldest three kids, (girl, boy, boy) have been married twice and I have a very different relationship with each of the three current spouses.
I love them all but don't trust the oldest son's wife (we used to be close) but she has changed that, I love my next son's wife and we have gotten closer the past 3-5 years. I am closest to my youngest son and his wife and she and I are very close. We have different tastes in decorating and clothes but she is not afraid to speak her mind nor am I. We have so much fun together that she is the one pushing to have me move closer to them.
Some fof the way I deal with my kids and their kids has to do with the fact that we don't live close to one another. It is easier sometimes to deal when you are can go and visit and then go home.

missingrosie - It sounds like you're really considerate of your DIL. Hopefully your relationship will find it's comfort zone.

One thing that I realized while reading your post is that it sometimes goes both ways. I used to try to do nice things for my MIL hoping that she would appreciate them. Sometimes I got a positive reaction but other times I felt like the efforts that I made weren't appreciated. I went through a time where I just didn't even try anymore. I finally got to the point where I would give without expecting anything in return. I now enjoy doing nice things for MIL but I won't do something if if my main reason for doing it is to have her appreciate it (because she might not and I would be hurt).

I guess it comes down to the fact that the things that are important to me aren't necessarily important to her and the things that are important to her aren't necessarily important to me. I think that used to bother me (because 22 year olds are always right you know - lol). I've learned that MIL is very different than I originally thought. Once I was able to let go of a lot of my own expectations, I found that I was much more comfortable with her. It probably took about 6 years though.

One thing that might help is if you try to spend some one-on-one time with your DIL. It might be tricky with a new baby but I think it will be worth it. I remember my MIL asking me if I wanted to go to the store with her once while we were visiting. I was a little surprised and reluctant but went with her anyway. It was one of the first times that I was able to get to know who she really was - without DH or my in-laws in the way. We talked about our interests, things we had done and we just had a nice time together. Since then, we've had several times when it's just been the two of us talking and laughing. This time together is also nice because she'll tell me stories about DH and his siblings when they were small. When DH's whole family is together it can be frustrating because they'll often talk about 'family lore' and I (and the other in-laws) are completely left out.

One last thought before I finish this novel - it may not seem like she appeciates all the things you don't do right now but as she gets older (and perhaps becomes a MIL herself) she'll probably recognize how lucky she has been. (Or you could point her in the direction of some parenting forums. They often have an area where people tend to vent about their in-laws. That really put things into perspective for me - my in-laws are great.)

Thanks Gilli
You are right about "late onset appreciation! I came to appreciate my mother in law so much over the years. In a brand new marriage, and being so young (I was 18) the 'expectation' was that I would not like her because you always hear those devil mother-in-law from hell stories. But not mine. She never poked into our business, she always was willing to help if asked, and she was genuinely appreciative (especially if I cooked her something she liked.) I miss her now that she is gone. I envisioned a relationship with my 'kids in law' like that. My DIL doesn't like to cook. I have offered to teach her some favorite dishes that my son likes. She says she doesn't know how to cook, wouldn't do it well, and besides doesn't like it. So she declined. Her girlfriend (I have never met this gal --just some telephone contact about the baby shower) asked me if SHE could take some lessons (go figure)
I really do try!!!! I figured it was that maybe DIL didn't want to be alone with me -- etc. etc., but I truly think it is that she doesn't plan to cook, doesn't like to cook, so why bother with the lessons. To invite someone you are uncomfortable around to be in the delivery room front row seat doesn't sound logical and so I guess it is not a comfort-level issue. Both those 'kids' don't like to clean either and had no packing done whatsoever on day they moved into their house. So moving day (I offered first and they accepted) I went to the new house and cleaned top to bottom fans to vents, windows to walls and in between. Got it all ready for the baby's arrival too with a first week and then another's worth of cooked meals to help them settle in with the baby and enjoy without daily 'stuff.' I didn't hear one word of thanks --but that is not a negative comment because no thanks needed --we just do for each other. But, I just wish I had some inkling of what she thinks ---not so much the 'thanks' but did you like it? How was it? SOMETHING!! (AND I just want my tupperware back!!) My concern was 'would this be embarrassing' to have someone clean your house...(it would be for me) but from both I got a COME ON DOWN AND HAVE AT IT WE LIKE IT AND IF YOU WANT TO DO IT ON A REGULAR SHEDULE MOM..HAVE AT IT!! Those two are a hoot! I told them twice was all they get on the cleaning.. they'd have to produce another child before it happens again AND name her after me or it would have to be that both their arms and legs are broken. Gilli, I will take your advice and do some alone things but it will be tricky to get her to do it. I remember voicing my feelings to my son early on when they were getting married. He asked me what I thought about his fiance and I was honest and told him that I hoped his soon to be wife would 'jump into' the family and become another daughter as our son in law became a son. I didn't feel a comfort level that (that) was going to happen with this gal. And, my feelings were hurt because on the wedding invitations it said Mr and Mrs .......invite you to the marriage of their daughter.......... to Mr. ..................period. No son of. I thought it was a great opportunity to give our first names to all the folks we would meet at the wedding since we had met nobody from the brides side. Plus we are his parents. I wasn't saying the invite should say that we requested the honor since we weren't paying for the wedding but just the rehearsal dinner. Anyway, long story short we were nowhere on the invite (I know that this too is a proper 'form' for an invite but it isn't the way any of our family would have done it) He was visibly upset upon seeing that I was upset and he told me that she takes a long time to warm up --- 'a few years' but that she would. Just not used to a big italian family. Then he said that he didn't know what he would do if he had to choose between the two of us. Of course being the italian mother than I am --I did what was natural... I reached over and slapped him and reminded him of his upbringing. Once he married - his job was to support his wife. He can say what he wants to her in private but for all public 'viewing' --including his mother -- he sticks to and supports the wife! I think he appreciated that. (I figure if she really gets out of hand, I'll stick her feet into a bucket of cement and push her over a bridge!!) (snort!!) (just kidding!!)
She is a good girl - she will come around and/or I will just have to accomodate the way that it is. I just am in a hurry and like I said - I don't like to feel this way when it involves grandmother stuff. Long Story, eh!! Thanks for all your help and advice.

Offering three cents (which, along with a dollar & change buys you a soda you might nto want, either).

RE: "Teaching DIL how to cook." Ouch! If someone said that to me, I'd probably be upset. Has your son lost weight? Starved? Is he malnutritioned since he married her? If answer is no, then leave those "meals he really likes" for the nights ya'll have supper at your house. I'm sure he and the new wife are getting along fine - kinda hard to make babies if you're not eating. ;)

If you're helping out just to help out, there ought to be no expectation for give-backs. Think of it as "pay it forwards", and not give expecting something in return.

When baby gets a bit older, why not invite dil and baby out for brunch? Neutral location, and just try to get to know her. Instead of, "Well, growing up son had this and this and this", ask her, "So what kinds of things did you do before you met son?"

Thanks Angel
I didn't offer to teach her to cook because she can't cook-- I offered to teach her to cook the favorites at my son's request and he made the request in front of her. No, they are not starving (but I guess the budget could stand some in home cooked meals.) She just laughed her socks off. She is not a shy gal. This wasn't an uncomfortable 'moment' -- She is very up front and so said basically 'Hell no, I'm not interested in cooking and so no sense in doing it!' She learned that I made pea soup and made a special trip to our house and swiped it from my fridge!! There is no shyness around me in those regards. She said later that she scooped it up with crackers and loved it and was not the least bit contrite that she took it all!! She has no bad feelings about not cooking. No insecurities.

We don't need a neutral location to meet. We really don't -- what I am feeling is a shyness about doing for the baby spontaneously -- like I did for my daughter. I keep feeling like I should ask her mother (my DIL for an OK) and I am not comfortable with that feeling I have. I feel like I should ask - should I change her diaper... can I give her this.... or that sort of stuff? It is not my DIL causing that --it is me. I just wanted to know if it is just me or is that a normal/natural feeling ..the differences between being a grandmother to a daughter's child as opposed to a son's. We are ok with conversations ---Not shy or strained. If I let her - she would have shown me her episiotomy when she worried it was 'hotter' than she thought it should be. Whoo whee - I escaped that one ok.

I have to disagree with you about the thanks part Angel. I think we should not do things to GET thanks but I think there is nothing wrong with EXPECTING a thank you or some word of acknowlegement. I taught my son better than that. I feel that as a mother - they should expect that I would do what I can, and I expect a simple thank you for the time/trouble or expense --whether it was given from the heart or not.





This message was edited Apr 2, 2009 7:11 PM

Right on Rosie... Regarding Thanks You and common courtesy.... I'm amazed at how much we taught that soon becomes forgotten. I DON'T have any qualms saying to any of my children "Excuse me aren't you forgetting something?" They ALL know what I mean and I seldom need to remind them but when it is necessary - they ARE reminded. My grandchildren too. I will not tolerate bad manners or disrespect in my home. And apologies had best be forthcoming. Call me old fashioned, call me a grouch, call me anything you want but those are my rules and I live by them. By the way, I have been told many, many times what well behaved children I had and what well behaved grandchildren I now have. I guess something rubbed off on my children sometime.
My grandsons fight over who gets to hold a door open for me. Gotta love it...

I've been out of town for a few days and haven't had a chance to check DG. I just wanted to tell you, missingrosie, that you sound like an awesome MIL.

Thank you Gilli - I try to be. My DIL makes my son very happy and vice versa I am so grateful for that. It would be beyond painful for me to think either of the kids were miserable in their relationships. It has a such far reaching impact from health to quality of life. I would be so unhappy if their lives weren't as they should be with regard to their significant others.