Rats - need I say more

Hi Everyone,

I need some suggestions. First here is some background. I live next to nursery growing grounds, acres and acres of them. I have Avocado, citrus and stone fruit trees plus an organic veggie garden. I also rescue dogs as part of a breed specific rescue
group and always have anywhere from 2 to 8 dogs here at anyone time. A couple of the field dogs are great ratters but the others pretty much leave the rats alone.

We have been inundated with rats, up the avocado trees, eating the center out of the oranges, nesting in the wood pile, the planting pots, you name it they are there. We don't have them in the house or the garden shed yet. I'm afraid to use the poison bait that is usually used because of the dogs. I've come across some traps that say they electrocute the rats once they enter the trap. The operate on AA or C batteries depending on whether they are for mice or rats. Have any of you used this type of trap and if you have, did you have any success?

Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

Barb

Barb:
My pup was poisoned by rat bait last week. He has survived, and I understand your concerns. My buddy, Lone Wolf, came up with a great idea, and if I can, I will take a photo to show you.
He is getting a large piece of PVC pipe, with threads on one end. The other will be closed completely. Then he will drill holes small enough for the rats/mice to get in and eat the bait. After inserting the bait, the other end will be screwed shut with a cap. The four footeds will not be able to get to the bait.
I don't see why you can't hang the traps in the problem areas. I would prefer not to poison anything, but there are health reasons for it being necessary. That doesn't mean you have to be irresponsible about it.
Lone Wolf thought for a long time before he came up with this idea. I hope it helps you out. I feel better now, of course since my pup survived, but it was very costly both financially and emotionally. I hope that no one ever has to go through what I did last week.
Never tried the traps to electrocute them. So I have no advice about that.
Keep us posted.
Sending a photo of my fur baby, Spirit, that I took yesterday.
Walk In Beauty!
SingingWolf

SW, that sounds like a good idea. One thing I learned from my DSIL was to check the label for whatever you use and make sure it is what they call "first kill" or something similar. In other words, make sure it won't kill an animal that gets hold of the poisoned rodent.

We've had to poison squirrels because our neighborhood is over-run with the darn things and they are causing pot holes, step cave-ins, etc. Besides eating all our apples last year! grrrrr... We've been using the gas bombs in their dens, which unfortunately won't work for the rats. We tried the pellets at first, and they were dropping dead in our neighbor's corral, in the street...what a nightmare!

Barb, I was overrun with them a few years ago. I called the county Vector Control office, and they came out to evaluate the situation. He showed me where they lived and explained why they were on my property, then he put up two poison bait centers where my dogs and kids could not get to them. He told me the poison they use only kills the rats; if a dog or a hawk were to eat a poisoned rat it would have no effect on them. This service is paid for by our tax dollars, and costs nothing to you. The people that come out are totally smart, usually degreed in their specialty, and can explain what will work best for you. And my guy came back for rechecks every 90 days until the problem was gone. This is one government-run office that really works!
Good luck,
Ann

Heck, wish they took care of squirrels!

We also live in a rural area, fruit trees, avocados, etc. and we had rats. DH placed Black Hole traps along their pathway on one of the fences and also put a vinyl trash can in the same area with dry cat food in the bottom of the trash can where they could get into the can, which they did, but couldn't get back out. Worked very well for us. Of course, you have to have someone who's willing to get the rats out of the trash can...lol....we now also have neighbor's owls in their owl boxes helping us out also.

My dogs would take care of your squirrels, KC. But they'd trash your yard doing it.
I like the owl approach best, wcgypsy.

I'd encourage an owl to move in. I should make some nesting boxes for them to put up around here. Anyone know where I can find a plan. Nudge, Nudge, wcgypsy. ^_^
I also like Vector Control taking care of the problem. We never see them or even hear about Vector Control unless they are touring the cities looking for mosquito larva. We know better. I even gave my weird neigh-bor mosquito fish for the the pond they keep for their horse.

Oh, I forgot to mention before, that my vet said that there are commercial rat poison "cages" that will prevent the four footed fur friends from getting into what they shouldn't.

Good suggestions, and I hope that they help you keep Barbsbackyard vermin free.

WIB,
SW

Google is your friend:

http://www.owlcam.com/whatever/boxbuild.htm

http://www.owlpages.com/links.php?cat=Owls-Nest+Boxes

Did you see ours, SW? Bees took up residence as soon as we had it up and we had to have them removed. :-( Please don't tell your DH!
No owls have moved in yet.

Nah, he doesn't care about feral hives. He gets real annoyed when people ask us to remove them.
Neighbors next door blamed us last week because they had a swarm show up in a tree at their place.
I guess they left messages with Mom (which she forgot to give us), and when we didn't call back they grabbed a couple of our guys who took them bees away from there.
Our bees are just being released from pollinating the almond groves. They are all still up north.
I don't know where these feral bees came from, but it was easier to remove them than to listen to the neighbors constant complaints.
If you ask me I'll tell you to get a professional to remove an established hive. If it is a swarm, then you relax, and they will usually leave in a day or two. Swarms usually ball up around the Queen to protect her and to take care of her. They usually fly off within 3 days. It's common for swarms to visit for a day or so this time of year.
If you have to kill them, you should wait until dark, then when they are all back in the hive. Then you can hit them with Raid Wasp Killer, from a distance. Or my ecological friendly method of mixing Dawn dish soap and water in the vegetable sprayer(pump). Then foam the bees.
It really is best to let professionals handle any real hives. They can also remove beeswax and honey which can turn foul, and bring in other bugs.
I'll check out the bat boxes. Thanks KC.
Can't resist sending this photo of why DH isn't allowed to mow the turn around circle yet!
WIB,
SW

It must be rat season. I had a racoon break-in in my attic - ripped the clapboard siding right away from the house. They did not take up residence, but the pest control guy said I also had some rat tunnels in the blown-in insulation. He used a deterrent (bobcat urine) that was sprayed all over the attic, then also broadcast crystals around my fruit trees. I have a huge trap in my backyard for the racoon, but so far have only caught a neighbor cat. He also put down an organic grub killing biotic somethin' or other. I have to leave the attic open for a bit, but I don't think the racoon is coming back, and I hope the rats have moved out - as he said they would with the same treatment. It was VERY expensive - 700 bucks for the investigation, diagnosis, and treatments. They guarantee work for 60 days, and will retreat the last day of the contract as part of the service.

Yes, it must be swarm season....I was sitting outside reading yesterday afternoon and heard a swarm fly over. Very interesting, one second there was a LOT of buzzing, then they were gone. I'll have to check around the property and see if they landed here. We've had temporary hives here twice before and it is fascinating, the first time I only saw combs left hanging from a tree, very strange. Then a year ago I was sitting under a pine tree, working, and I heard the buzzing and looked up and there were what must have been thousands of bees clinging to a branch overhead...the next day they were gone.

The first time we had a swarm, I freaked out. We were outside and they landed all over the roof of the house. We didn't know they would move on and DH sprayed them with the hose to chase them off. We're still learning lessons about rural living. :-)

The owl box was full of bees within a couple of weeks. We got someone to come out and he said they were very gentle and good honey producers, but if we left them they would take over our yard, the neighbors' yards, then the world. LOL He would have relocated them, but the box is not on a pulley system and was too difficult to get to, so he had to kill them. He showed me the honeycombs - they had done an incredible amount of work in such a short time.

wc, if there is a comb, it was a hive. The second you describe was a swarm. Unless you threaten their queen they are very non-confrontational. I got some good photos a couple of years ago of a swarm that came through here.
KC, Sometimes it is sad but necessary, and the responsible thing to do, to destroy a hive. Most of the feral bee population (natives) have died out from the varroa mite, or other problems. Increasingly, the Africanized bee is filling the niche that the ferals used to. There is no way to tell if it is Africanized bee except by disturbing them. If one to ten come after you it is probably an escaped European bee swarm. If 100 + come after you, run into a building or car, because those Africanized bees are very aggressive. More and more they are moving into urban areas.
Remember too, that bee keepers wear white, because the bees only natural predators are the black and brown bears. That is why they attack darker clothed people before the lighter clothed people. Same way with animals. They will attack a dark animal a lot more than a light one.
The bees do work hard, and they are fascinating. I've walked through a swarm and never been stung. They smell fear, and if you are calm and don't act agressively, you will usually be fine with the honey bees.
GTG, Mom needs me.
WIB,
SW

I remember always wearing white and light colors as a child during the summer. I'm not allergic to bee stings, but sure do swell up from them; mostly I was terrified of wasps and bumble bees. Still can't get used to wasps, but find moving slowly around our BBs is fine. My mother is very proud of me, that I can work in the garden around the bees now. Took me long enough! LOL

Good for you KC! No reason to be afraid of bees. Just keep benedryl ointment to hand while working outside. I hate the wasps too. I don't even have the satisfaction of knowing that if they sting me they die, like the bees do. Those wasps come back for another bite and invite their friends. The bumblers are a lot of fun to watch. They can be aggressive, but I noticed they only work certain plants at certain times of the day. They really love it now that the Wisteria is starting to bloom.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread. It's morphed into one on pests.
WIB!
SW

This has been interesting reading. We have been there and done that with bees.

Singing Wolf I'm so glad Spirit is ok. He is a darling pup and I'd love to give him a hug. Our rescue group has lost
several foster dogs from ingesting poisened rats so Spirit is one lucky little pupper. Please hug him for me.

Last year when the neighborhood called our local vector control they wanted to leave bait here as well as the other homes in our area. I wouldn't let them leave any bait here because of the dogs and they were pretty disgusted with me. The nurseries started leaving rat bait out last year and our neighbors have lost several pets, a cat and 2 dogs. We have also lost the neighborhood foxes and a pair of Mallard Ducks.

I would like to try Lone Wolf's bait trap idea. Singing Wolf, would Lone Wolf share his pipe diameter size and also the
size of holes he drills to let the rats enter the pipe? I like the idea of the critters being trapped inside the pipe and staying there.

I've enjoyed this thread. Years ago when the bees were so plentifull we always had swarms taking up residence in
the building somewhere. In the last 5 years we have had one swarm pass over and one other take up residence in
a void around the chimney. Now I make sure I have plenty of Lavender planted out and around the garden and orchard
area. I also have a variety of other plants that the bees love but the Lavender seems to really attract them.

Thank you.
Barb

Hi wcgypsy,

What are Black Hole traps? Are they small enough to place on the top of a fence.

At night the rats run across the lane and up on top of the fence and use them for their raceways. From there it is down
the trees sampling the oranges along the way. It is pretty neat how they make a small hole and eat the entire inside of
the orange and leave behind the hollow orange shell. Then they race the dogs for the Avocado trees where they take up their
nightly residence.

I was going to try growing some potatoes in wire cages until I remembered the rats. Does anyone know if they will
try to eat the growing potatoes?

Barb

Barb,
If you can eat it so will they unless they have something more attractive to munch on.
I will ask Lone Wolf for the dimensions and take a photo to share with you all. No reason for our fur friends to die such a painful and cruel death. Lone Wolf has been in Bakersfield all week.
DH brought some hives home last night and put them out by Grandmother Oak. See photo.
WIB,
SW

This is a Black Hole trap:

A while back I promised to show you the rat trap that Lone Wolf was making for the Bee Barn. Here are the dimensions.
3 two foot sections of pvc pipe.
1 "T" section of pvc pipe.
1 Cap for the pvc pipe.

See photos. Instructions to follow.

WIB,
SW

Okay, you will load the rat bait into the trap through the top, and cap it off. Then you mount the whole thing securely on the wall. In our bee barn the rats are using a section of wall, two cinderblocks high as their highway. Lone Wolf has used this method in horse barns too. At any rate, the rats/mice run in and eat, but your pets can't get to the bait. Then they run out and die. Lone Wolf does make a "Rat Patrol" (not the tv series), every day to remove any dead rodents. He checks the traps themselves a couple of times a week.
WIB,
SW

Remember the t shape is upside down, and the opening that Lone Wolf is pointing at is where the poison gets dropped and the part that gets capped.
Just remember to be careful and responsible. This may not work for some of you, but I do hope it is helpful to others.
Ooops the previous photo is sideways. Let me try to edit it. If I can't, I'll repost.
WIB,
SW

Can't edit the photo. Here it is right side up.
WIB,
SW

Hi SingingWolf,

What great photos of Lone Wolf's rat trap. I've been working on maintenance of a commercial drip system that I put
in about 20 years ago and just now checked back in to find your post.

I have the pipe and fittings here so will make up a couple of these bait traps this week. I'll try them in the veggie garden and the compost bins. I think it is to late for the house though. . . . . . somehow the critter(s) have made their way into the attic and held a boxing match up there last night. Guess it is time for the exterminator.

Please thank Lone Wolf for sharing his idea about the trap. I really appreciate both of your efforts.

Barb

Barb,
I will tell Lone Wolf what you said. I know that he is watching over our traps and there has be no problem since he put them up.
I hope that it does help with your rat problems.
I had them real bad in the attic crawl space at the rental, a few years ago because the tenant had removed the attic vent screens and never replaced them. Incredible how much damage rats and mice can do.
Another non toxic method I use around where pipes enter the house is to stuff the space between the wall and the pipe with steel wool. Really has reduced them, I really hate rodents in my kitchen.
If you got rats in the attic call the exterminator. You won't be sorry in the long run and if they are really good they will point out problem areas so that you can fix them. Same for bats or raccoons or possums. They can relocate them without harming them, but you don't need to live with their messes.
Good luck! It's going to be a dry year, and if they go hungry they will start looking for food at your place.
WIB,
SW

Bait regular Victor rat traps with peanut butter and place where the rats run. I kill tree squirrels this way too. To keep dogs and cats away from trap, turn a box over on top of it, with a hole large enough for a rat or squirrel. Hold box down with a brick.