Grow lights

I have never started seeds indoors before. I have two cats which eat plants, so I don't have any houseplants. However, I do have a place where I could keep seedlings away from the cats. Thing is, I will need to provide a light source.

I thought this would be easy - buy shelves, a grow light, some potting supplies. I began my online search and now I am completely confused !

How do I begin ? And can someone please explain grow lights to me ?

Thanks.

All you need for lights are the cheap shop lights you find at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. They should run around $10. The common bulbs are all you need, no expensive grow bulbs.
All you need is a shelf that you can hang the light from above your plants. Lights should be only a couple inches above the plants.
Bernie

Yup- I agree with countrygardens- I dont buy the marketed Plant or Grow lights- I just bought a regular shop light- I did buy one on the lower cooler side- I think 4100k and one on the warmer brighter side 6000k - as I have heard to use one warm and one cool bulb in the shop light fixture. but the important thing is to have them on chains and keep them really close to the plants.
Good Luck.

Thanks for the info ! Your suggestions won't cost a fortune. All I want to do is start some morning glories.

What watt bulbs should I use ?

And another question - if I can use regular lightbulbs, could I put the plants in a room and just leave the light on ?

How many hours of light a day do the seedlings need ?

They need to be fluorescent & close to the plants. The 4 ft ones are 40 Watt.

Thanks, CountryGardens.

I have copied below some portions, edited, from a post I made earlier on this forum, and I apologize if I'm boring anyone with the repetition. I tried to see if I could just list the post number, but it seems you can't search for specific posts that way, or at least, I was not able to. I hope some of it proves useful to you.

I also had a plant eating cat. Wart, [ named for T.H. White's character], an unabashed glutton, ate almost anything. He once chewed through a hibiscus trunk nearly one inch thick, like a freaky little beaver, leaving the severed top lying beside the trunk stub, with some trunk missing, i.e. eaten ! I found a non toxic repellent spray, really nasty tasting, didn't hurt plants; worked like a charm. One taste and he never touched any sprayed plant, no matter how much he liked it before. If I manage to remember the name of the product, I'll post it, but it escapes me for now. Copy of post follows:

"I suspended two four foot shop lights, with hoods,side by side as close as possible, on chains from hooks in the ceiling, over a shelf I built. They were all I had room for, but the more lights over the flats the better for the plants. The shelf is over an apartment size dryer on a stand, the only space I had, and safe from feline raids. Big enough for about four standard flats and I grow cacti under it too. You raise or lower the lights by the chain links, can even slant them for different height plants if need be. I wired mine for plugs, with long cords. I plugged them into a power bar, and the bar is plugged into a cheap timer that turns them on and off for me, cause I'd forget, for sure ! Regular florescent bulbs work fine, but if they are on sale I get the plant specific ones if I can, because I think they are better for the cactus flowers. I replace them roughly every six months, though they last much longer than that, because I read that the light output decreases with age, and plants do best with the maximum they can get. I donate the used ones to Value Village, but they'd be fine for a basement or garage. Human eyes don't register the drop in output like plants do. Incidentally, the bit about replacing every six months was from a site that sold bulbs and light gardens, so maybe they were just trying to sell more, but the cheap ones are so cheap I figure, better safe than sorry. If I use the plain ones, I always pair one Cool White with one Warm White in each fixture. It is said to be a better mix of light for plants.. I don't know for sure, but only a tiny difference in cost.

Once you've sown the seeds, watch the flats closely. Being observant can really pay off. Especially watch for signs of damping off, which can happen very fast. It's a fungal infection that kills seedlings.. they topple over at the soil line & die, sometimes it seems, almost overnight. The fungal spores are everywhere, impossible to avoid, so make sure you use clean, fresh seeding mix each time. Washing flats, domes, pots etc. thoroughly in a weak bleach/water solution helps too,and is especially important if you re-use anything that had soil or plants in it before. Most important of all, provide lots of VENTILATION. Run an oscillating fan in the room or area all the time, because moving air is the very best preventive for fungal problems, particularly if it's too cold to have a window open all the time. There's a fungicide, I think it's called No Damp, you mix it with water to prevent or treat damping off.. Any garden center, or HD will have it. Don't forget to harden off all your new plants. Before you plant them out in the garden, they will need some time, a week or two, in some shade outside to develop resistance to sunlight. Any plant grown inside will be burned badly, perhaps to death, if placed out in full sun without any hardening first.

I would definitely keep notes on what works, and what doesn't, for next year. Send away for seed catalogues for next year, before the New Year and you can drool over the pictures !"

Oh, and watch out when buying four foot florescent tubes, because the new ones, the energy savers, are only 34 watts instead of 40, and it makes a big difference to the plants. They need all the light they can get, so the energy saver bulbs will not serve nearly so well in a light garden, although they are fine for ordinary use.

Another tidbit I meant to add earlier - you'll want to leave the lights on about 14 - 16 hours a day for seed germination,and it's way easier to manage with a timer. There are quite cheap ones available, all you need is one that can turn them on in the morning and off at night, so nothing fancy is required.

I'll add my two cents, I didn't think morning glories could be transplanted. I always wait to direct seed mine. Anybody out there had success starting them indoors and transplanting?

Actually, that wasn't the photo I meant to post, luckily it also happened to have morning glories in it. This is the one I wanted:

You can transplant morning glory, but only if you can manage not to disturb the roots. They can sulk for weeks and weeks and not grow a bit. I've had success transplanting them in degradable pots, the sort that can go into the ground as is, like peat or paper, and now I use coir. Much prefer coir. One thing to watch, when you put them in the ground, make sure that the top edges of the pot are either level with or under the ground surface. If they aren't, tear or cut off any excess first, because the pot edge sticking up into the air tends to wick moisture away from the new transplant, into the air, and this is not at all helpful. It can even ruin the transplant. Sowing Ipomea in place is the best way, I do believe, but the pot and all method has been reasonably successful for me and it does speed up the appearance of the flowers. Just do your best not to disturb the roots at all, say, by squashing or tearing etc., which can be a bit of a challenge with a wet degradable pot if it's not full of roots. Best to use a smallish size pot so that it's fairly full of roots when you go to replant it.

When comparing the amount of light a particular bulb gives off, look on the package for the "lumens". This is the way light is measured (like quart is liquid measure and inches linear, etc.) The higher the lumens the greater the amount of light. There are new 8T bulbs out now that actually give more light than the older 12T bulbs. A cool white usually has a higher light output than a warm white--you can tell exactly how much by checking the lumens. And most plants want all the light they can get.

I too am starting seeds with lights,1st time,almost everything has germanated so far!!!when do you usally start bloom cycle 12 -12 light???

Huggergirl, I turn the lights on when I sow my seeds. Some seeds need light to germinate, others are covered with soil. By turning the lights on immediately, I don't have to worry that the plants are coming up, but have no light source.

I've had luck with Morning Glories by using a tall cup, like a drive-through soda comes in. You will have to be able to dig a deeper hole when you plant them, that do not disturb sign on the roots is true. Don't start them too far in advance, they get big quick.

phfurballs-I'm running out of room on my porch for starting my seeds and the only other place in my house would be my basement. Even tho its a old basement it doesn't seem too damp just real cool, could I start my seedlings downstaires and use an grow lights?

A small electric heater would warm it a bit,. Should be all you need.
We are using one this year. We switched to all electric heat for the house, so basement is cool. Seems to be working fine.
Bernie

Thanks CG, but I'm not sure if I feel comfortable leaving a heater going on downstairs, would that mean my seedlings would germinate a little slower? I will run a small fan to keep the chance of fungus down and of course use fluorescent lights.

Anyone else growing flower seeds in their basement?

I start a lot of seeds in my basement. I don't want to bore anybody with repetition, so if you look in the Beginner Vegatables forum under seed starting with grow lights I posted some info about my seeds or you can send a D-mail.

I think the basement should be fine, if you use lights to grow with. If it's really cool, it can slow down or for some seeds, maybe prevent germination, but all you need to do is warm the soil. You can get heat mats or heat cables that are designed to warm up the root zone in flats or under pots and it is the soil temperature that has the most influence on germination, rather than air temperature. Make sure it's well ventilated, a small oscillating fan helps a lot to keep air moving, which helps prevent fungi or mold. I remember from when I was a child, my grandparents were dedicated veggie growers. They used to save seeds from the tomatoes and every year started them in wooden flats, in the cellar. No extra light, just what came in the basement window, and the room they used was the same one he and Grandma used to store their root veggies over the winter. They always grew really nice tomatoes ! So I don't think the basement should be too big a problem, just use lights, and warm up the soil if it's really chilly down there.

I GROW my seedlings in the basement under lights, but I START the seeds upstairs. I start them in very small containers, like tunafish cans (with holes punched in the bottom) so I can start a bunch at once and they won't take up much space, and I put them on top of my cable box which stays warm all the time. I cover them all with a piece of plastic wrap, and check everyday to quickly remove anything that has started sprouting. But once they have sprouted, I bring them downstairs where it's probably 55 degrees and they are fine. I do think the florescent lights give off a little heat, even though I know they aren't supposed to. I have mine right down to within an inch or so to the tops of my seedlings, so I think that keeps them slightly warmer.

pennefeather When seeds need light to germinate, all that means is to surface sow, not actual light. Small and tiny seeds are always surfaced sown because they would not have the vigor to make it to the surface if covered with soil. Larger seeds are never surface sown.

Tiny surfaced sown seeds only need light once they germinated. They don't need it to germiante. They get all the, so called light, they need when sown on the surface.

I'm glad to find this forum, lots of interesting information. I hope this question is posted in the best possible thread.

My first year germinating veggie seeds in the house. I got the whole setup of grow lights (Verilux full spectrum fluorescent that are the closest match to natural sunlight of any flourescent lights) and the the three tier stand system from Lee Valley Tools (fellow Canadians will know what I'm speaking of) and my soil, seeds etc.

When the seeds began germinating I have the lights running 13 hours a day.

The cabbages are doing great. The problem is with the tomatoes....they are leggy and spindly. I have the lights about 5 cm away from the plants but they want to "reach". I read to start running fans to help "stalk up" the stem...so I have two at each level of the stand about 4 ft away blowing a gentle breeze.

Some have set their first set of true leaves but are so gangly in the stem. I may have to transplant them again to bury them deeper.....are my lights not on long enough or what am I doing wrong?

Has anyone purchased this particular stand and lights from Lee Valley and has had bad results in their tomatoes?

This message was edited Apr 6, 2009 12:27 PM

I keep my lights about 1 cm from the tops of my tomatoes, you may need to get yours closer. My lights would look crazy to a non-gardener, because I arrange my seedlings from shortest to tallest as they are placed on the table from left to right. Then the left side of the light is hooked onto the chain where it needs to be for it's plants, and the right side for it's plants, and it's very crooked. But it keeps them all happy. I have to raise the light to water, so it is constantly adjusted when I lower it again.

Thanks for responding cindyeo. You sound like you got your setup mastered regardless if it's pro or not.

I messed up; it was 5 cm from the top of the cup to the lights; the tippy top of the tomato is 1 1/2 cm from the lights, so it's the right level.

Pink Pansy, you might want to increase the number of hours you keep the lights on. I've seen quite a few recommendations for 16 hours a day for new seedlings. Even though lights are very good, they are not real sunlight, so some extra hours under the lights helps to make up the difference between artificial and genuine sunlight. Tomatoes originated in the tropics where they had a long growing season, very hot days, with extremely intense sunlight. One reason the hybridizers are always working on new varieties is to make them more adapted for our northern climate's cooler weather, lower light levels and shorter growing seasons. Cabbages are much the oppposite, preferring cooler weather, and not needing quite such intense light levels. I think that explains the difference in the performance of the seedlings. It certainly won't cost much to run the lights for a few more hours.. so it should be worth a try.

I recently read that seedlings do better when the lights are left on 24/7. I'm a little skeptical, so I'm trying it with only one seed flat to see if the longer lighting makes a difference. I always thought they needed some darkness for proper growth, but several more experienced seed-starters say no. We'll see...

now that my seedlings have 3-4 sets of leaves do i still need to keep the lights so close to them, or are they going to reach for the light if i raise it ?

Huggergirl - in my experience it's best to keep the lights close (2 in.) to the top leaves until you are ready to start hardening them off. They could still get leggy if the light is too far away.

NYGardenGirl, thats what i thought ,Iam starting to run out of room ,hubby came to the rescue,buying more lights tomarrow,transplanted 3 flats today,made paper pots too!!!

Sunloving plants, such as tomatoes, require 16 hours of light placed 1" to 2" from the tubes.

Don't worry if they get leggy. You can just plant them deeper. They will root along the buried stems. That way they won't need water as often.

When you finally place them in the garden, here is a trick I used. Cut off the bottom of a 1 gallon milk container. Cut out a door. You can cut on 3 sides leaving a hinge. Place a rod into the soil near the plant and thread the container over it and into the soil about 2". The plant will be nice a cozy inside, yet will not get the full effect of the sun until established. The door can be cut out smaller than shown, then enlarged as the plant grows. This idea works with any plant you want to harden off and will protect against light frost.

Thanks to everyones help,lookie here,iam sooo proud of the kids !!

huggergirl, those look great, very healthy. Petunias?

cindyeo,Yes wave, mixed,also have ,zinnias,kale, verbena- pereinnial ,rockcress-pereinnial,alyssum,lobelia,coleus,sweetwilliam,godita,african daisy,lavendar-munstead,phlox-drummondii,and every thing is doing great,i just wish spring would come to stay,a day here a day there ,we are 10 degrees below norm. and have been for a while,and we are wet.Sorry about that,I need sunshine!!!!Iam going to make paper pots for my baby waves today,they have a good 3-4 wks.before i can put them out,my zinnias are 6 inches tall & stocky,kale too,I see not to plant those as early !!! lesson learned .Sunshine forcast for weds. yeah ! zinnias&kale in pic.oh sydney my oldest cat, in lower right corner !

This message was edited Apr 20, 2009 3:57 PM

yes, I keep a diary of what day I plant each type of seeds. Then if they are ready too early, I can make a note to delay a week or two next year. They're always ready too early, never too late, aren't they? We're all so anxious to get things going.