Hardy Hibiscus seedlings sick

My month old hibiscus seedlings are looking sick, leaves curling. Texas Star and Swamp Mallow. Help, I am getting sick looking at them.

Are they under lights?

Were they transplanted into those cups? Getting full spectrum light?

They are in a GH.

They were not transplanted. I germed them in the cups. The ones pictured came up in the last week of Jan.

How's the watering? The cups are a little big for seedlings that size so you have to be careful with the watering until their roots get more developed, it's very easy to overwater when you have a tiny root system with a lot of soil around it to hold moisture. I can't see the base of the stems well enough to tell if it's looking pinched in at the bottom which is a telltale sign of damping off (the one seedling in the top right corner looks like maybe the stem is pinched in at the bottom, but it's hard to be sure, and I can't see the base of the stem on the other 3 at all)

Also has anything changed over the last couple weeks...moved them to a different location, removed humidity domes, GH temp been colder than normal overnight or warmer than normal during the days (as you get toward spring, if you don't have really good ventilation the GH can get pretty hot during the day which may cause stress for them). Any kind of sudden change can be tough on seedlings.

ecrane3 we did have cold and hot this week. The cold was not lower than it has been but the hot was hot, hi 70s. Got pretty warm in the GH. As to the domes I have changed my MO. I Dome them up for the cold nights remove them in the daytime normally. I do run a space heater on nights that gets lower than 40. Could be water, I watered them Wed daytime and it got cold Wed night. I might be drowning them. Is all I can do is let them dry out and see what happens?

I would let them dry out a little, and also I'd keep a close eye on the daytime temps in your greenhouse. It's hard to say whether it's water or heat (or could be a combo of both). I know that when my daytime temps get in the high 70's, the GH will get 90+ inside even if I have the doors and vents open...fine for my full-grown tropical plants but that could be very stressful for seedlings. And if you've got the GH all closed up with no ventilation then high 70's outside could be over 100 inside which would be very bad for the seedlings. Also check the base of the stems--as I mentioned in my first post if they're suffering from damping off you'll see that the stem looks pinched in at the base.

I will check the stems tomorrow. They aren't limp or crispy, just curling leaves. I have never grown any hibiscus before except althea, not simular. The seedlings leaves have always looked droopy, never wilty. Since this is the first time I have grown hibiscus I don't know what is normal looking growth.

Here the photo of the largest seedling as it is this morning. This seedling was in the previous photo. The largest leaves are drooping more than yesterday. The stem looks ok to me. There are root spikes growing out of the stem at soil level. You can see one in this photo, it is white on the left side of the stem. All of the seedlings have root spikes showing at soil level. Not all of them seem to be effected, most do, some a lot more than others. Does this look like they got to cold? They don't seem to be too wet, the cups are not heavy as some other cups with other types plants that I have watered more heavily with the same soil mix. More lessons to be learned.

It looks like cold damage to me- and possibly overwatering- Hibiscus seedlings are very tender about temps-

These are hardy hibiscus though and it sounds like temps have never gone below 40--would that still cause problems? For tropicals it definitely could but for hardy hibiscus I would have expected them to be fine with 40 degree temps especially if they've been exposed to those temps all along. But if they were recently exposed to colder temperatures than they'd been used to that could do it.

I don't see the pinched in stem which would signal damping off so that means if you are watering a bit too much it's probably not too late to correct it...I'd try sticking your finger down in the cup and see how wet it feels. Just because you have other things that are wetter doesn't mean you're not watering these too much, plants have different water needs and some are more tolerant of wetter conditions than others.

The temp in my GH gets less than 40 degrees. It doesn't get to freezing I don't think. I turn on my heater when outside temp gets below 40 to keep temp above freezing in GH. It gets pretty chilly in the GH when the temps get to the lower 20s. I normally dome tender seedlings on cold nights, I must have not covered them one cold night recently. The soil is not soggy, I tend to think it is not too wet. But this is my first attempt growing hibiscus so I am just guessing. I guess hardy doesn't mean indestructable.

In that case I would agree it could be cold damage--I had assumed your GH was staying above 40 but if it wasn't then cold could be an issue. Seedlings are more susceptible to cold than full grown plants. Do you have a way to keep them warmer--maybe a heat mat for chilly nights, or put a lightbulb or Christmas lights right near them?

The heater only keeps temps from reaching freezing , so on cold nights I put domes over what I think is tender. Being an absent mined old coot I believe I must have forgotten the cold and I failed to dome up. If it is cold damage what are the chances of recovery? It really dosen't make any difference now they will either live or die. I have a few more seeds. I can start over. I have alot of time to spend spending time learning what not to do. Thanks Larry. There is a lady bug crawling on my screen. I have a hundred or so over wintering in a gap between a door and the frame in my barn office. I haven't open that door since the late fall when I discovered them. The warm weather the last few days must have woke them up. They won't like tonight when in gets to the mid 20s.

All you can really do is wait and see, there's really not much you can do besides make sure you don't forget the domes again if you get another cold night. I suspect you won't lose them all though, they don't look in that bad shape to me so hopefully they can recover. It'll be hard to tell for a while though, cold damage can take a while for it to really become clear how much damage was done.

Hi: Have you applied any fungicide??? I agree the cold could be an issue but if the plants are stressed and overwatered then its a rx for soil borne diseases. A good broad spectrum fungide would be advisable. Just my thoughts
Dave

Hi Dave: Chemicals and my body are not always compatable. I reach a point in my life where poison ivy no longer bothers me and what happens I started reacting negatively to all sorts of things. So I steer clear of chemicals, over the counter meds and keep an eye out for wasps. More than one thing will put my body into anaphylactic(sic) shock. Taking over the counter pain killer Aleave almost killed me twice. Slower learner. Read the caution labels on meds and believe them. The message could be for you. If there is a non-chemical fungicide substitue I might try that. My medicare doesn't start until April I can't afford another uninsured trip to the ER or hospital stay by exposing myself to something that maybe harmful to me and I do want to see my hibiscus bloom if they live. Thanks for your suggestion. Now I will go look for some cheddar cheese and a granny smith apple to go with my whine. LOL. Larry

Larry, I have seeds for Hardy Hibiscus if you need more. The flowers are white and dinnerplate size. Let me know if you would like some. Mine germinated in about 5 days and were doing well on my windowsill. They are now under shop lights and growing quite well. I'd be happy to send as many seeds as you'd like.

You could try hydrogen peroxide for an anti-fungal, or chamomile tea. They may not have quite as much power as some of the more toxic things you can buy, but they're very safe and I can't imagine the peroxide especially causing an allergic reaction.

Celia you are too kind. I appreciate the offer of seeds. Yes I would like them. Do I need to send you stamps and an envy? Other than the curled leaves do the seedlings look normal? I have never seen hardy hibiscus seedlings before. I have seen full grown ones in bloom and love them. Larry

Here is todays photo. I am trying to convince myself that they are getting better. New little leaves seem to be developing.

I don't know how cold it got in my GH. This spirea never suffered.

ecrane3 I pour that stuff all over my body, occasionally use as a mouth wash. I just started to soak seeds in a 10/1 mix. I haven't tried watering with it yet. It boils my skin, oh no, not on my plants. Preconceived ideas sometimes causes procrastronation(sic) when action is needed.

Here is todays sad picture. I am still hoping.

I'd just hang in there--if it was cold damage then it's totally normal that they will start to look worse over time--the full extent of cold damage usually takes some time to show up. At first things might just look wilted, but then leaves that were permanently damaged by the cold will continue to look worse and worse, eventually they'll die and probably fall off. What you have to hope for is that the only thing that was really damaged is the leaves and that the seedling will be able to put out new leaves to replace the ones that were damaged. Keeping my fingers crossed here!

Hi larry: your plants seem to be looking better. Its funny how plants overcome so much on their own.
Dave

I believe they are going to live. King's X.

Celia, I see you are in Zone 5b. Do you grow those hardy hibiscus as annuals? I love hibiscus, but didn't think I could grow them in my area.

They come back every year. I have had one in my backyard for about 4 or 5 years now. I also bought a Lord Baltimore (red) and have it in the front for 3 years. They come up late in the Spring, but boy do they bloom. I've got plenty of seeds if you want to give them a try.

Oh yes, that would be wonderful! Ha, ha and thanks to Larry, I'll know what the seedlings look like. Hope they make it ok for him. One of the tricks I use in my greenhouse when I know it's going to be too cold for some tender seedlings is to put one of my seedling heat mats on TOP of the dome as well and cover the whole thing with bubblewrap. Of course, when you do something like that, ya gotta be really good about unwrapping things the next morning, specially if the sun comes out! :-)

One night of not putting domes over them has caused me a lot of hand wringing. But hey, if this saga is helping someone I guess it is a benefit. Here is the sick ward today.

Day 7. One that I haven't had in the photos lost all leaves today. Some are slowing putting out new leaves. I can hardly wait for the next episode. When I was a kid going to the movies on Saturday afternoon there was always a serial ending with a cliff hanger with impending death of the hero. I just had to go next Saturday to see how Lash LaRue saved the stagecoach with his bullwhip or how Superman escaped from the kryptonite.

At least they're still green and upright! Fingers and toes crossed here. :-)

You are correct woofie, they are still green and standing on Day 8. Also in this photo you can see some vitex seedlings. After two years and two packets of vitex seeds and a little/alot of swearing I finally have vitex more than 2 inches tall and are still green alive. The cold didn't hurt them.

Boy am I glad you mentioned cold! I hadn't been paying too much attention because the daytime temps here have been pretty nice. Eeek, just looked at the forecast and tonight's low is 18, dropping to 9 in a couple of days! Yow, my crummy little greenhouse is not up to protecting from those temps, so I just got back in from dumping layers of bubble wrap on top of my trays and turning on the space heater. Crazy weather. Grumble. Good thing I have some nice, sharp cheddar to go with my whine. (Sorry, good lines are meant to be stolen.)

It so warm here I had to take the glass out of my GH door yesterday. Where is the cheddar. LOL. 20 degrees 2 days in a row then 2 days later it is almost 80. My GH doesn't like 20, 9 would be tragic. My plants may be confused. I hope the freezing temps are over. Likely to get one more frost. Boy I am opti-mystic today.

Well, my bubble wrap trick kept the temp under the domes at 60 deg. Good thing I hang onto that stuff. Between the heat mats and the bubble wrap (literally, hee hee--plant sandwich) I think my babies will survive those 9 deg nights upcoming. I gave up trying to keep the entire greenhouse warm after the first winter of astronomical electric bills. Didn't realize you got those kind of cold temps in TX.

Day 12. Some are gonna make but I have to think they may be stunted at this point. By the way who knows how big they should be before being planted outside?

It's less a matter of size and more a matter of your outside temperatures...once you're getting close to your last frost date you could start hardening them off so that they're ready to plant in the garden once all danger of frost is past. But if you're still getting a lot of cold weather then I'd leave them in the greenhouse for now.