Thanks Tplant, for your response. I do love the lightness of the coco coir, but I am having a really hard time getting my blocks to hydrate. It's taking me several hours of soaking in water for the pieces of blocks to soften up enough for me to be able to laboriously squeeze them into a fluffy state. I phoned the customer service people from "Beat Peat" (a Canadian company who makes the coir) and they said "use warm water," which I did, but this still took hours! I'm going to try Jaywhacker's advice above, where it is recommended to add the water slowly. I hope this helps because my hands are really sore from the squeezing!
Do other folks have this experience, or is it just the type of coir I am using?
Any Coco Grower Questions?
Can anyone tell me if I can use the coir in a wire fence "cage" to grow potatoes?
CapeCod, that's not my experience with the coir Bob sells. In fact, I hydrated it in a big trash bag by just spraying the water in there and letting it soak for maybe 30 minutes. It took hardly any effort at all to break up.
Capecodgardener: The problem may be with the coir itself, if it is the type that Bob's sells in blocks, it dissolves immediately; but, if it has other things in it, it can take forever. I like his coir in the blocks, they dissolve right away. I usually just put my blocks of coir in an 18 gallon tote put water in and let it set and then go back to it a little later on, like Jaywhacker said though, it will dissolve right in front of your eyes. Now, the coir that is used in the lay flat bags, is another story, it has coconut shells and other stuff in it and it doesn't dissolve unless you soak it in warm water and then that still takes a while. I got frustrated with mine, pulled mine out of the lay flat bags and put it in the tote and soaked it and then replaced the bags with the coir, a real pain in the rear. Does it say on the package what exactly is in it? I bought some pellets once that said they were coir pellets and they weren't pure coir, I could tell from using the good coir.
I just planted a Crepe Myrtle Tree today and decided to put coir around the roots just to see how it works with trees, as baby trees need to have their roots kept moist. So; that is my new experiment with coir.
joy
I've got a lovely bunch of coco-nuts... here's my little Kansas melons starting in an oak barrel with coir.
Oh, and the string is to keep out my two cats who seem to like digging in coir too. I tried some pepper around, but it wasn't doing the trick. So far the twine is keeping them out.
This message was edited Apr 17, 2009 4:19 PM
Desert Jake: I would think that coir would do well with melons as they need a steady supply of moistness.
Elsie: I would use weed cloth around the cage before adding coconut coir, it will fall out the holes I would think if not. I've never grown potatoes myself yet though so wouldn't know how they grow with coir.
joy
Capecodgardener.....About hydrating coir........I didn't mean to say that you had to hydrate the coir slow. These blocks of coir weigh approximately 11 lbs as I understand it. At any rate, those size blocks will absorb 7 gallons of water, again that is approximate. If you have a container that is big enough, just throw the block in there and pour 7 gallons of water in with it. Go take a smoke, drink a beer or even a cup of coffee. Just do something either productive or not productive with your time for about 30 minutes to an hour before going back to peep at your coir. If there is some dry coir remaining, poke and stab and stir it with a stob to mix it in with the hydrated coir where the dry stuff can absorb some moisture from the wet stuff. You can add a little more water if you think it is necessary but the coir works better if you dont make it soupy.
I am a bit worried about what type of coir you might have from the way you describe it. There is finely ground coir for container growing and there are courser types for mixing with dirt in ground beds. The only type I am familiar with is the finer stuff for containers. There is no way you should have sore hands from having to break up that coir.
Elsie......The type coir we are using for containers would probably wash right through a wire container. Check with Instagarden. Sounds like they are now selling a courser grind of coir that is used for mulching and that might work for you in a tomato cage. Sounds interesting though. You try it and if it works, the rest of us will jump on the band wagon. :-)
Thanks for your input about the "cage" and coir. I am sure you are right that it would just come out. I read on another thread about covering the plant with straw and thought maybe I could use coir.
Thank you, everyone, for your helpful comments regarding my "cement coir." I fear that I have the evil coir--probably meant more for mulching than for pure container gardening like in EBs. Thank heavens I have checked in with all you folks on DG. At least I now know what I am working with.
Oh well; the two EBS I have set up so far will be another experiment. . .
The coconut coir I use (the 5 KG size, 11 lbs) can be totally hydrated in less than 10 minutes. I put the block in a wheel barrel, turn on my hose with a spray attachment, start spraying the coir with a moderate spray, push aside the hydrated coir once a minute to expose more dry coir, and in less than 10 minutes I have 60 lbs of glorious soft, fluffy, coconut coir potting mix. Simple as that.
Me too! I set the block in a big tub, hose it down right where I'm going to set up my EB. It takes about five to ten minutes to to break up and a couple of jabs with a shovel to make sure it is soaked and ready and then I hand pack the corners of my EBs with the coir and just shovel in the rest not bothering to squeeze out the excess moisture as I will hand pack when the EB is almost full. The excess water drains into the EB's resevoir. Then I simply add the dolomite lime, mix lightly, continue to add to the top, add the fertilizer line cover and cut an X through the cover where I want to plant or seed. I do not hand squeeze the coir as I feel it is not necessary.
TPlant: Yes, show us some pics please?
I love the coconut coir for seed starting; but not in the EBs, like I said it falls right through to the reservoir, unless you line the wicking sections with something like weed cloth, I tried that myself, without the weed cloth and it fell right through to the reservoir; and, if you are not using mulch covers beware, as the coir, when it gets wet, gets extremely heavy in the EBs, as the coconut coir absorbs water, doesn't take a science wizard to figure that one out, water does weigh a lot, a whole lot.
It works great in the 5 gallon grow bags and lay flat bags with the fertilizer that Bob has and it does an excellent job of seed starting.
I planted okra, cucumber and corn seeds in the coconut coir, the okra and cucumber seeds in Bob's seed starting mix the cucumbers in Park's bio dome. Placed them on heating mats and in 3 days they were up and running; put them under the lights and am now getting them hardened off to plant. The reason I didn't direct seed plant anything, as I am only keeping the seedlings that look the best when planting. I haven't had the problem with the dampening off disease that I had with seed starting in peat pellets.
I did use some coir around a baby Crepe Myrtle's roots to see if it would do better with coir around the roots to hold in the moisture.
This spring I've tried many different mixes for growing purposes and the best I've seen thus far is the one that comes with the EBs, it's light and fluffy, the dolomite lime that comes with the EB, is sifted and very fine, the fertilizer is I think sifted too, as it is very fine. Now Gardener's Supply potting mix has dolomite and calcimitic lime already added to their self watering container mix and has the consistency of the Jungle Grow for Professional Growers in Containers (the one in the silver bag).
I've also tried a bunch of different growing methods and products. The one that is the easiest to take care of and the most reliable and is doing the best for me is the EBs thus far, my square footers water fill tube is small, so you can only trickle water into it, the black device that is supposed to float when it is full works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. The revolutionary planters need to have their water reservoirs filled 4 times a day else they dry out and you have to take the top part of the hanging planter apart and rewet the wick again. The bloommaster is a so-so, and the self made bloommaster is a failure, the HEBs are hardly worth talking about; but the 5 gallon HE Buckets are great, the 5 gallon grow bags are producing just fine; but, I'm watering every other day by hand with a 2 gallon watering can because I'm using Bob's fertilizer and every other day I used the sprinkler hose and I think the tomatoes are doing great in there. The lay flat bags with the three tomatoes in them are doing better than I imagined too, time will tell with those.
I did put Jungle Grow potting mix in a huge nursery pot on the bottom and then filled it half way up with coir and planted the so called tomato tree, I'm burying the stem (or should I say trunk in this case) as it grows and adding more coir. It's doing great thus far.
joy
If you're gonna do potatoes, I would suggest starting with a tight-guage wire mesh screen to create a bin. You might wanna pound a coupla stakes in the ground and let your wire screen wrap around it naturally creating a circular bin.
stobs will work much better than stakes. They look better too.
Yeah, what Jay said.
I found an article on growing potatoes and there is a thread about growing potatoes in a garbage can. I think I may try that. And potatoes like an acidy soil so I will use leaves and pine needles. I have tons of those. Of course I'm still wondering about coir in a garbage can. I have a local source of coir so it is no problem to get more. Now I will have to find some inexpensive trash cans.
Sounds like fun Elsie. Didn't know potatos require an acid soil as we grew potatos on Long Island and the PH was naturally around 6.5 but anyway to clarify a statement of interest pertaining to coco coir and my former Jungle Growth. JG weighs 50 lbs or so in the bag and when placed in an EB and wetted down will weigh at least 60 t0 70 lbs. Coir weighs 11 lbs and when hydrated and placed in an EB goes to about 40 lbs, so for me I don't have to use my handtruck to move an EB if not to far a distance. I just slide it but I normally set it where I want it and fill it there but the other day my spacing was off so I had to adjust and found a huge difference in weight from two EBs with fresh left over JG and four EBs with coir. Ever since I heard of one of our gardening friends losing a thumb from the flesh eating disease from dirt gardening I feel much safer now using the coir. Down here in the Florida heat we have all sorts of diseases and virus in our soil. Better safe than sorry! Thanks again BocaBob.....***
Tplant: You are so dramatic sometimes aren't you (a gardener friend losing a thumb from a flesh eating disease from dirt gardening???? The coir weighed more than the Jungle grow when I did my experiment and that is because, the coir absorbs water and holds onto it, water weighs a lot, and the Jungle Grow lets some of it go. Now in the heat where you are, that is nice, as in your part of Florida it can get to 100 degrees sometimes and stays at 90 degrees most the time (see I can exagerate too?); but, up here where I live, well, we ain't into the 80's yet; but we are getting there, it stays around 70-80 year round up here, except in the Fall and Winter, then it gets a little nippy sometimes; but still not like up North.
Like I said, I planted a Crepe Myrtle tree my daughter wanted, and used some coconut coir right around the roots as the directions for planting said to water everyday for 3 weeks, which means they want the roots kept moist, ah bingo, Coconut coir sounded like the solution to me. I'm optomistic about that one!!!
Ted, Bob's products will sell themselves, some people will learn to love them after using them, some will not. They have their ups and downs. I believe the person who has used the coconut coir the most on this website is possibly Jaywhacker. You are already saying it keeps really well, and how long have you been using it? How long has Bob been using it? How long has EB been around? I myself, love his coconut coir seed starter kit, it's the best. It is not the best medium though for EBs especially if you are planting artichokes or some other things, (and before you say artichokes don't grow in Florida you might remember Florida has 3 zones, and in my zone people grow them successfully - you can't grow them where you are).
Now the layflat bags simply amaze me, as I planted 3 toms per bag, and they are doing, and I will post pics a little later on to show you, that one I didn't think would happen and it has. Just like I am curious about toms in those stackables. I mean what about all the roots? But, again, experimentation will tell the real story there.
joy
Everyone: I asked a professional about using straight coconut coir in Earthboxes, especially, in my area. Now Ted and Bob both live in south Florida, where I lived for 25 years, and their weather conditions are completely different than mine up here in the panhandle part of Florida where it is more like Alabama's and Mississippi's. When it rains in south Florida the heavens open up and dump water by the loads for about 5 mins and then zips right back up, it does it without a cloud in the sky. Up here where I am, it's quite a different story, you see rain clouds and you will experience thunder showers all day long and sometimes for weeks long, down there they experience droughts and they are fined for water use if they use too much, here, we don't have as many droughts and have no fining for water useage as it is not as big a problem.
An expert told me that if you are going to use coir in your EB, you use it like you would peat. You add perlite and/orvermuculie at 30%; but, hey, it's ya'lls money and ya'lls EBs so do what you like. I know up here, you leave a pot of coir on the deck outside and a pot of potting mix on the deck outside then go outside after a nice long rain spell and try and lift both and see which is lighter. Coconut coir absorbs water, that is why people living in a zone where they have high temps, like southern Florida love it very much; but for this area it is not as good as if you don't use a mulch cover it will weigh a ton. It doesn't take years of gardening experience either to figure that one out.
joy
I live in zone 6b and I love, Love, LOVE coir. Gimme whatcha don't want.
Joy for your information a person CAN lose a thumb or finger [or for that matter, their life,] to a flesh eating disease from organisms that can live in soil. It does happen. D
This message was edited Apr 19, 2009 4:57 PM
Devota: We can all jump to extremes, some people bleed to death cutting their foot also; but, it doesn't happen very often. I did not say I didn't want or didn't like coconut coir. Bob, himself can tell you that, I've bought quite a bit from him. I live in zone 8 B, I also have gone to horticulturalists to find out some specified things about coir and other things. It is great when used properly and in some instances it doesn't work and in some areas of the country it is different. We are in April (April showers bring May flowers), and we have had continual rain here, some things have not worked out well with the coir some things have worked extremely well. My reports are not biased though as some people's are, and I've never been a brown noser.
A horticultualist and another botonist I know; both have advised that if you want to use coir in EBs you treat it as you would peat; by adding perlite and/or vermuculite at 30%. Now, I'm not gonna argue with someone who knows what they are talking about. From my experiences I happen to think that if you own a particular system you should use what the manufacturer of the product suggests you use don't you?
Also, I'm not into spending $200 for something and just giving it away, I did not say I did not like the coir, I just think the "better than botox" attitude needs to change. Bob's products sell themselves, when you have a good product that tends to happen. But; when experts say that you should not plant coir straight into an EB; I would think that should carry some weight, and since I have tried it with other self watering containers and discovered the hard way why you don't do that, I would think that people would listen; but, especially when it is advice that is given by a practicing horticulturalist; but, if you don't want the advice that's ok too Devota. I am a little tired of the ranting and raving about coconut coir by a select few whose only purpose in doing so is to sell Bob's products for him and to me is nothing more than brown nosing; but, then again I believe admin themself has warned against this; of course, I guess some people feel that all the rules don't apply to them since they repeatedly break them.
Have a nice day and happy gardening
joy
Hello everyone! Looks like I missed a lot.
Anyhow, I finally found the coco coir 5kg block locally. Botanicare CocoGro was super easy to hydrate and I really enjoyed working on them with my bare hands. It washes off easily - - - no ruined manicure! LOL.
Since I used both EBs and TSK (Gardener's Supply Tomato Success Kit) TODAY, I got to find out that TSK is easier to fill with coco coir (for me at least). I was not worried about the coco coir filling the reservoir.
I shall find out this season what works for me. I have some EBs with Miracle-Gro, some with Gardener's Supply SW Container Mix.
Then I shall report =).
Moonglow, I did something similar with cabbage. Ebucket with coir, plain bucket with coir. EB with and EB without for beans. Love to experiment. Don't you? Of course I have to keep mine down in writing or next year I would forget what works best. Devota
This message was edited Apr 19, 2009 6:53 PM
I personally am very glad this thread is here since this will be my first time using coir (and, at this point, I'm planning on using ONLY coir) to container-grow tomatoes and I need all the info I can get! I also appreciate everyone's input about BocaBob's coir in particular, because that's what I ended up ordering. I did choose it because of all of the "rave-reviews"-- I found very little information or reviews about any other seller's product anywhere else, and I did look for whatever info I could find. If several people here, who are obviously more experienced in this thing than I am, have good things to say about ANY product, I'm going to take their word for it and probably also use that product. I don't think that the people posting their rave-reviews here are doing it so much to help Bob sell anything, but more to express their pleasure at finding a product that works and is easy to use (at least that's how it seems to me).
I think it's natural to want to help out a friend (virtual or "real life") in a business, so I understand why a lot of people here have used Bob's products-- it's another reason I chose to buy from him. The fact that he makes himself accessible here to answer questions or give advice is another factor. If there are others out there offering a great product with a comparable level of service, I'm sure that those folks are more than welcome to post their rave-reviews of those products, too! I, for one, would be glad to read about those experiences too.
I agree with you whole-heartedly, Lianne. This has been the most fun I ever had gardening and since so much "new" is out there I want in on it. I appreciate others' candor; what works and what doesn't.
I also enjoy my virtual friends and their ideas.
I've ordered from several people, [including Bob,] and enjoyed the ability to do that on line.
Joy, I didn't actually expect you to give me your coir, just teasing you.
"I am a little tired of the ranting and raving about coconut coir by a select few whose only purpose in doing so is to sell Bob's products for him and to me is nothing more than brown nosing; but, then again I believe admin themself has warned against this; of course, I guess some people feel that all the rules don't apply to them since they repeatedly break them."
"I've never been a brown noser."
Who is dear?
I used the first three EBs with coco coir at my last crop. The tomatos were planted in two stages cause I didn't want to many at one time but that worry was unnecessary as the construction crews were on line if you know what I mean. The first three EBs were planted with coir at a much later date and rapidly caught up with the others of the same variety that were planted in Jungle Growth. I have no interest in promoting a product other than it being factual. I did the same with Jungle growth, dolomite lime, 10-10-10 fertilizer, Earthboxes, Sudduth Brandywine tomatos, the garden bench kneeler and garden cart from Gardeners Supply, and many more products that I have personally used and liked for which I have no financial interest. Oh and I am a young 71 yrs old and still love Bob's coco coir and extremely pleased with it's results.
Oh and this thread is all about coco coir so if one is not interested in the content than delete your thread? Simple enough.
This message was edited Apr 19, 2009 8:09 PM
Hi! I'm just reporting back about my use of Beats Peat (company name) 5 kg. blocks of coco coir (the "evil twin" LOL) that doesn't rehydrate nearly as quickly as other compressed coir products that folks are using. At first I wondered if I'd gotten "old" particularly dried-up coir, but the company rep. said that their compressed coir has no "shelf-life problems." Well, all I can say is that the 5 blocks I have rehydrated so far have been a PAIN to work with. However, I have closely examined the coir that I eventually managed to rehydrate, and it does LOOK like the soft fluffy coir in Boca Bob's photo of his wheelbarrow full. I'm hoping that it will turn out to work as well as other folks', because I've presently got 8 NJ deck rail planters and three EBs full of it as we speak, planted with lettuces, strawberries, and peas--the early things that can handle the Cape Cod cold spring. (You might notice a touch of Zone Envy, you Florida folks!) I used Tplant's recommendations as to ferts and Epsom salts. So far, things LOOK all right!
This is always a fascinating forum and thread. Thanks, all of you, who provide advice and experience.
Cape Cod, I am only using the coir as I need it and I don't have anyplace to leave it hydrated. So I took a sharp knife and lifted the layers apart. I put them in a small container and they hydrated rather quickly. This was done in the kitchen.
I will tell you that I had an unopened package of coir from last summer. The now coming off my roof ended up flooding my patio - the coir hydrated on its own.
Have you tried a little soap in with the water?
What a good idea, soap in the water. makes the water wetter, doesn't it?
Yes, I've got four more blocks to hydrate. . . and I have heard that a bit of liquid soap can be a "wetting agent." Hmmmm, might try it. Cutting the layers apart also sounds like a good idea. Thanks, folks!!
I use my reciprocating saw to slice my coir into roughly 1/8 chunks. 2/8 chunks is enough to fill three standard 24-cell potting trays with enough left over to fill a 10" pot.
I just put it in on of those keg barrels and keep filling with water...do a little putsin around and break it up...ad more water...etc.
I am planting heirloom lima beans today, staking y tomotoes and planting some cukes. Anyone else got anything going in today or this week?
That being asked...this thread is getting long for dial up, especially with pictures, which Im hoping some have. Maybe we should start a new thread.
This message was edited Apr 20, 2009 1:40 PM
Any Coco Grower Questions? PART 2
NEW LINK: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/977677/