Thanks so much for all you info about making a pond. We are getting ready to "jump right in" and the outline is in place. Ours will be very small compared to those in the photos...maybe 24 square feet. Digging into the clay soil will be the hardest part (we will hand dig) but the clay should also be great to "mold" the shelves. Does anyone have advice about getting the various pumps (sources). Is the off shelf stuff at Lowe's etc. good enough or should we mail order it?
Continued thanks for all your advice. The pics are terrific. I'll keep a photo record of our project.
New water garden
Is there a pond store near your house? Look for a pump that has at least a one year guarantee. Laguna pumps, in my opinion, are reasonably priced and have a three year guarantee. I ordered my stuff for my baby koi quarantine pond from www.azponds.com and have been happy with service and pricing.
Very much looking forward to the progress pictures. Get your pond equipment from Lowe's or anywhere that has decent prices for what you need. Lowe's here carries Laguna and Laguna has a good reputation. It's the sizing of the pump and filter to the gallons of water in the pond that will probably dictate where you buy your stuff. Not every place will carry the sizes you need. Digging in clay is hard, hard work, but you're right it wil allow you to really get a nice arrangement of shelves and a nice deep pocket for the fish in real hot or real cold weather.
Post pictures of progress!!!!
Azponds has great prices but be sure to get the right thing the first time, cause their customer service isn't the best.
Hello again. Here are a few photos of the first phase of our water garden. We went online and found a local pet and hobby shop with water gardening supplies. It's less than a mile from where we live and the owner was an expert on water gardening and had all the pumps, liners, etc we need plus lots of advice and counsel. She's a garden designer as well as shoppe owner. Anyway, she will give us a free site consult. We are having lots of fun doing this and hope to get the stone soon. We went to a stone yard and found many options. Here are a few photos from phase one. Note: the black hose outlining the pond is our irrigation line; it had to be moved and has no role in the water garden.
From another angle. Next will be the installation of the liner.
Could I share something about my pond that I wish I would have done differently? I just had my pond made last year and I felt my plant shelves were too large(wide) and wish they were smaller so my fish had more deep cooler water. Are you putting koi in there? Initially I thought a large shelf would be great and I could put a lot of plants on the shelf. I now understand that I could have put the baskets on top of one another if I felt I needed more plant space. I never filled up the shelf yet had way more than enough plants in my pond. My shelf is about 2- feet wide all around-maybe even larger.
Also, I lost more than $1000.00 worth of koi this past summer that I could have avoided if I would have put in a bottom drain or two and also another biological filter other than the waterfall filter (which I hate because it is very hard for even a very strong women to clean out). I have since added the additional bio filter and UV light and it is amazing what it has done for my water quality in just two weeks. I didn't even buy an expensive one but one that someone recommended here at Daves. It's a Fishmate and I am a HUGE fan after all the other over price stuff I bought and am so-so about.
mm - Darned good advice.
Mothermole,
where did you get your fishmate? Did it come with a pump?
I am asking because I would like to get the uv for my 700 gal pond.
Thanks
Kris
Thank for your suggestions mothermole. We are not going to put koi in the pond, just goldfish. I am mainly interested in the plants and hopefully have good options with the form we have made. Our pond is only 8 x 10. Your suggestions about the bio filter and the UV light are great. Our supplier also made the suggestion but we are waiting till the next phase. Will keep you posted.
I bought a pump and the bio-filter/uv all from the same dealer. I bookmarked a few to compare pricing-have a look for yourself. I bought the fishmate and pump for the 2000 gallon sized pond plus the hoses and clamps all from the same dealer.
http://www.pondbiz.com/home/pb1_1235782510663/page_1019_387/fishmate_pressurized_uv_bio_pond_filter.html
http://www.aquaticponds.com/Fish-Mate-Pressurized-13-watt-UV-Bio-Pond-Filter-3000-wPowerclenz-_p_743.html
http://www.underwaterwarehouse.com/Fish-Mate/Fish-Mate-Pressurized-Pond-Filter-p-242.html
Thanks a lot....We will try to manage the algae with plants; if that doesn't work your info will be most helpful.
I agree about the plant shelves MM. More gallons and space for fish without them. Plus if you do bare bottom, the shallow shelves look weird. Bare liner looks fine a few feet down but shows too much for my taste less then a foot.
The bottom drain is a must for sure. For goldfish you can get a 2 inch one. If you don't know how to plumb it at least put one in and cap it for later or put a gate valve on it to manually flush it. They are really easy to put through the liner. It sounds complicated but it is actually one of the easier things to do. I had more problem getting the skimmer attached then installing the drain through the liner! lol
Good luck!
I guess the shelf space depends on whether you are 'ponding' for fish, or for plants.
For me the fish are an added feature I like to see off and on. But the plants are why I would do it. So larger plant shelves would be better for that.
I don't have any plants in mine yet.
I agree with Evesta on the bottom drain...Since I am demolishing my current pond in order to get the rocks out of the bottom, and I will only have Shubunkins in it, a bottom drain is imperative...Goldfish of any type create a very nasty sludge in the bottom, not to mention decayed plant waste...It is a very nasty and difficult job to clean one without that drain...
I am a gardener first and foremost and the fish were an added bonus to my garden (and the pond plants . . .). I have to say I absolutely love to get peeks of the fish between the plants.
BTW: I had a lot of success with my plants in the pond last year. Some of the lillys were on the smaller side being their first year but overall the plants grew like crazy and I had a lot of experienced water gardeners comment on how well they grew-especially in their first year. However, even with a 35 foot river full of plants, my waterfall filtration full of plants and the pond itself full of plants I still had algae. With the recent addition of the UV and biofilter I can see a change in the water quality and the suspended algae. Yes, there is still algae on the surface items in the pond from the winter and I plan to add something to kill it down in about a months time but overall the water is crystal clear. I am also added a ton more plants that I purchased in the co-op from Texas Waterlilys.
I have two pond without bottom drains. The smaller one is a 480 gal goldfish - shubunkin pond. I have no trouble keeping it clean. I do have agressive filtration and a small deep pocket where the fish hang out over the winter and the pump goes in the summer. From time to time I scoop sludge from the pump well with a small aquarium fish net. No big deal.
The 2500 gal koi pond shoud have had a bottom drain. I have agressive filtration on this one too. Twice a year I vacuum the pond bottom. I don't really get much sludge at all. I think that filtration with UV's makes a lot of difference. Plants can shade the water from the sunlight promotes alage and take up the nutrients that feed it. But I don't believe that plants alone can sucessfully manage algae.
I'm not clear about this bottom drain. This is the first time I've heard it mentioned. Does the drain go into a pipe or into the ground. Our clay soil is so impermeable I can't imagine the water going anywhere without a drain pipe and a sump pump or something. Our pond is relatively small (1000 gallons I think). My husband will freak out if I talk about anymore plumbing. We've still got the skimmer and water fall thing to do....the pond already has about a foot of water from all the rain. YIKES. I'm getting nervous. We are only planning to have a few goldfish....maybe four at most.
Bottom drains are nice. Larger ponds definitley benefit from one. They are like a bath tub drain. There are numerous ways to open the drain and let the water and accumulated debris flow out, mostly by gravity to a sump ( hole in the ground) or via a pump that pumps it up and away to a sump or other collection point. 1000 gallons is a whole lot of water for 4 gold fish. You could have like 40! The way goldfish breed you'll have 40 before you know it anyway. A bottom drain is not absolutely necessary. But, you will need a way from time to time to clean up the pond bottom - leaves, sludge from fish waste and any plant debris. An accumulation of rotting muck, sludge or leaves can make for a very sick pond. It usually takes about three years for it to build to a point where it will start to affect water quality. So plan on having a way to get the bottom clean, either with the drain or a pond vac. Pond vacuums are widely available on the net. If your filtration is good, your fish load is low to moderate and if you dont let falling leaves accumulate you wont get much muck. In 1000 galllons, with good routine pond maintenance on the aforementiond items, a bottom drain can be omitted.
I have to mention hydrostatic pressure here. Is there any chance that the water table is now or could be above the bottom of the pond after a heavy rain? If it is the water pressure from the rising water table will bubble up the bottom of the liner. The bottom of the pond has to be above the water table. I'm hoping that the water collected in your hole is simply from collected rain water that is slow to drain and not from water coming up from underneath.
LOL... I bet about a year ago you would can find a post from me here saying the same thing about plants being more important to me then fish.... then I got bitten by the bug;) And even if you don't get bitten, your few fish will breed and well... many of us end up with more fish then we know what to do with! I would say unless you are putting in a small goldie pond, like snapple mentioned that is small and easy to clean, the bottom drain is the way to go. Makes maintance easier and if the fish bug bites, then you will be covered.
The bottom drain goes through the bottom of the liner(this is easier then it sounds) then under the liner so you don't see the pipe. If you want to keep it simple you could plumb it straight to the skimmer(wish I had done this). I think it is little giant that makes a bottom drain kit for skimmer attachment and the drain is only 2 inch which would be good for goldies. It comes with all the plumbing but the flex pvc. I will see if I can find the link later.
Well, some ponders are not so lucky with the fish and are in the negative rather the positive in regards to fish numbers. Mine just die-not breed . . . unfortunately . . . :(
Progress report....we've finished the pump, waterfall hook up with flexible p.v.c. and we've got the liner in. Now we're getting a delivery of a ton of stones on Friday. Should we put the water in first and try out the pump or should we set up the stone first. Our "consultant" at the store who sold us the equipment said put the stone in place first, but that makes me nervous. She said you could stand in the pond and place the stones. But, what if the pump doesn't work; isn't it easier to fix it before we put the stones in place?
Thanks for your feedback. Ellen (sawpalm).
Can't you test the pump in your bathtub or something? I'm confused, you mean you just want to know if it comes on and works?
well for what it is worth, I would fill it first, because as you fill it the liner could shift, maybe more than you think. The stones should go on very last IMO>
Thanks for your quick response. The pump is already hooked up to the pvc pipe to the waterfall; no, it's not possible to move it to the bathtub at this point. I was just curious to know what others had done. Yes, I assume the pump will work but guess I just want to see it in action!
I think you will need to leave easy access to the pump, to service and clean it and such.
I take mine out several times a year, and clean the intake filter and the impeller.
PROGRESS REPORT on our new water garden.
Today we got a ton of stones! Actually the stack wasn't as big as I expected. Since it is pouring rain AGAIN we have to wait to put them in the place. Meanwhile, the pond cotinues to fill with rain water which is a good thing for the fish.
Here are a few photos:
the stones ready to be put in place
Here's the liner in place.
Break out the Ben Gay!
Well, we are finished with the first phase of our water garden. The second phase will be the surrounding landscape. Photos can be seen at
http://picasaweb.google.com/ellen.kirby/OurFishPondWaterGardenProject?authkey=Gv1sRgCMiY7PWxo6DhSA#
Thanks for all your suggestions and help. The support was great. Ellen
Evaporation Rates:
In our new pond, which is terrific and we are enjoying SO much, we are wondering how much evaporation we should have with a 1200 gallon pond. We noticed that the water level was down about 6 days after we filled it up; we were surprised and thought maybe there was a leak but no signs of that.
It was down maybe 3 ". Suddenly it occurred to us that this might be evaporation. Your feedback is much appreciated. How much should we expect. The weather was in the 70's but it has been extremely windy. (For anyone jealous of that temp, it's now 30 degrees here) Ellen
I lose water to evaporation at quite a good rate, about an 1" every two or three days. If it's windy you can double that. I also have a lot of splash from the waterwall that adds to the water loss. There are automatic fill devices that you can install to top off as needed automatically. They use a float that turns a valve that opens the water connection. My DD has one installed on her pond/waterfall in CA. She loses a lot of water daily from splash, eternal sunshine and low rain fall. I don't have one installed and don't plan to. It would require a hose dedicated just for that or running the water underground all the way out to the pond. Neither is an option for me. But, they are a convenience.
You can expect water loss due to evaporation to be a constant. Think of it this way: Some fresh water is good for the fish and it gives you an excuse to sit by the pond while topping off. Don't forget to add dechlorinator. I have read that if you're adding water in an amount than less than 10% of the total pond volume, dechlorinator isn't necessary. However, I add it anyway every time.
Dont be tempted to walk away from the hose while you top off unless you are certain you will never forget the hose is running! I've known a couple of ponders who have forgotten, only to come back later and find a lot of water heading for the sewer and either dead fish or fish with gills severely burned by the chlorine. Consider an automatic meter/shutoff device for the faucet. They are cheap insurance plus you can measure how much water you're actually adding. I have one installed on every outdoor faucet. Saved my fanny more than once!
http://www.amazon.com/Melnor-Water-Timer-Automatic/dp/B00176FFJC/ref=pd_sim_dbs_hg_1
I'm so glad you are enjoying your pond.
Our new water garden is up and running and we love it! Today, two frogs showed up "out of the blue". still trying to figure out how they found us. Anyway, all was going well until we found one of our large goldfish dead between two stones outside the pond. What in the world happend? Does it have anything to do with the frogs? Or, was it just a coincidence. We don't think there is anyway the fish could have jumped out that far. Maybe a cat or a bird? Ideas?
Thanks.
You would be surprised how far a fish can jump. Initially they may not go far, but once out of the water they can flop around and get quite aways from the pond. This is most likely to happen when the pond is too shallow. I had a preformed pond that was only 18 inches deep barely. I frequently had fish jump out. A couple times I found them still alive and they were ok. But most of the time, they were dead before I found them.
Most animals that pull them out are going to eat them, or at least tear them up some.
It has NOTHING To do with the frogs. Frogs may eat small fish, like fry or minnows or if the frog is very large I guess it could eat a small goldfish, but other than that, they are harmless to your fish.