I am goin g to be planting corn this year on new ground, and we've scraped of f alot of the grass but we'll still have alot left coming back. I want to under plant the corn with a cover crop that will kill out the grass but not the corn.
If I plant it when the corn reaches say 2 foot or so, Can I sew it directly onto p of the soil?
I'd like some suggestions as to what to plant, as I want this to be annual. Are there any clovers that are annual?
And I also thought about planting the regular garden in the late fall with a cover crop. I've before planted spinach, turnips, mustard, and kale growing it all winter and disking it in in the spring. Would that be best to just do this again? I have picked from my cover crop before all winter, except for the mustard greens which don't like the frost.
Under cover crop for corn
WEll, after reading about clover, being a perennial or biannual, I don't think I want to go with that. I'd rather go with something that is annual, planting in the early summer when the corn is 2 foot tall.
and the regular veggie garden, the cover crop will be planted in the late fall, about the end of september and grown all winter, tilled in in the spring time. Thanks in advance for the help.
I truly don't mind doing spinach again in the late fall. The kale I grew attracted Aphids even in the winter months.
Ah, a Companion Gardening question if ever I saw one! ;-) But I do not know an answer for you...... Perhaps someone will have a smart suggestion. Good luck!
Kyla
I also thought I could plant it the same time I plant the corn that the corn would grow out fast enough to clear the cover crop.
What I'm trying to do is clear out the grass that's going to come up and kill out the corn before it gets good growth on it, we lost our corn last year in this same field because the grass was so bad, it choked out the corn.
We have scraped the top of the soil removing all the grass, but we didn't get all of it.
Will it be a large patch? If not, would it work to underplant squash. Perhaps not enough sunlight tho...
It's not a large patch, probably l0 rows. Won't have enough room to walk much thorugh there if I plant squash though, Want something there that I can walk all over, in between the rows that will help kill out the grass.
I may have to check on that hairy vetch see if it's summer growing or not.
I had looked at hairy vetch and if I recall it was recommended as an overwinter planting. Then, come spring, mowing it and leaving the dead foliage to provide the mulch. They recommended planting thru the mulch which would retain moisture, improve the soil and provide mulch for weeds. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Wonder if it would work to do squash in alternate rows with a vetch? You could walk on the vetch.......
As an afterthought, do you think the squash would receive enough sun?
I do think it would receive enough sun.
Squash loves afternoon shade down here.
You know, it occurs to me there are several jobs you want your cover crop to do and maybe that is a bit much for an annual plant you also want to walk on! LOL! It might make lots of sense to deal adequately with that stubborn grass first, perhaps by heavy mulching -- cardboard layers, wet it down, compost over that, then seed your annual cover.... which would then prevent further weeds from growing cause it would shade them out, and hopefully also enrich soil for the corn.....
????
just some thoughts there.....
One year I threw in a load of coriander seeds among my corn. If you buy the seeds for cooking it works out fairly cheaply. As a groundcover it didn't work too well but it certainly flowered at the right height to attract bees & help pollinate the corn. I think you call coriander cilantro in the U.S. If you like to eat it it works out well.
Oh that would smell lovely walked upon, too! ;-)
I vote for bunching rows and adding squash...are we voting?? If the rows of corn were clustered -in twos- squash could be planted on the outside, vetch on the pathways...
tying again to send this....
Well. It is not allowing me to do what I did on the other thread. Can. Not. Figure. Out. What the difference is....
Kathy-ann...Howdy, Ma'am! (well, it Almost rhymes!) :>)
I was wondering what kind of grass you are dealing with. If Bermuda grass it'll be a losing battle and usually needs hand-pulling, constantly. If Johnson grass, same. If it is pasture grass or the like you may have a good chance with a planting of early mustard. (More on that, if you like.)
I'm not sure if you are willing to work your soil throughout the Summer months (probably once a month or every 6 weeks) but if so then I'd highly recommend buckwheat as your weed suppressant. Once the corn has declared broadcast buckwheat within the rows as well as between the rows. It is best to lightly rake it (or till it) in but a good rain will often throw up enough soil over it that it'll germinate just fine. It's easy to broadcast it then set the tiller very shallow, then go between your rows as fast as you can walk, burying the seed. You can also just rake it in with a garden rake if you like.)
Buckwheat grows so fast that it'll smother most weeds and grasses. In as little as 3 weeks you'll have a thick stand of it. (When it flowers it not only brings in the pollinators but also some beneficial bugs love it.) Once the flowers are fading, or even before that if you like, run over it again w/your tiller; the stems are hollow and easily collapse. Turning in buckwheat doesn't offer a great deal in the "adding plant matter" department BUT the tradeoff is the very same day you can broadcast more seed, having a second crop declare within days and, again, 3-5 or six weeks later you have another smother crop weakening your grasses energies. You should be able to grow no less than 3 crops throughout the Summer, each time broadcasting seed, raking/tilling it under, letting it grow, tilling it under, repeating.
As for IN the corn rows, rake (or "scuffle") the seed (hard to till within the row!) and let it grow right in the row. This part won't be tilled under but with the backside of a rake you can just topple it over leaving it as mulch. For subsequent sowing sprinkle the seed within the mulch.
As for walking on it, I wouldn't recommend regular foot traffic on it but remember that for many weeks you won't be in your corn patch so there will be no need to wal there. Once your corn is up the only reason you'd be in your patch would be when silks appear, keeping an eye out for bugs, and another time or two (either spraying/dusting or harvesting). Those few times you want to explore your corn patch could easily be when you have tilled under one of the buckwheat crops.
As for vetches, gulp, I see I have once again run on too long with my posts, a pet peeve of mine. Enough said for now.
Super best to you, Kathy! (And hope your part of AR didn't suffer from that terrible ice storm.
Shoe
HI Shoe, No our part didn't suffer much at all from the ice storm. Luckily.
It is bermuda grass i'm dealing with . Stubborn as all get out.
Thanksf or the tips
Oh, buckwheat! I knew there was one I could not remember! Once again, Shoe, thanks for the voice of experience!
Now, what is t he problem with vetch, please? Inquiring minds out here awaiting the word, LOL!
Kyla
yeah, I was going to ask that shoe, I was in ahurry last time I posted and forgot to. Is vetch a perennaial?
Howdy again. Cold and rainy here so I get to come back in and warm up, dry out, and drink a cuppa joe.
"As for vetches, gulp, I see I have once again run on too long with my posts, a pet peeve of mine."
Whoops, didn't mean to imply something was wrong with vetches, I was referring to my long-winded posts as being my 'pet peeve'.
Nothing wrong with vetch, Kyla and Kathy. Depending on the type of vetch used some are better for Fall planting and over-wintering as a green manure/cover crop while others are better for Summer growing (in certain areas). Hairy vetch is a great one to Fall plant and then also to allow to grow as a living mulch for your tomatoes, for example. Other vetches are often interplanted with grains for hay or silage. Those, too, make great green manure additions but are sowed in Spring and Summer.
There was a thread here someplace recently about fava beans, those are also "vetch". A bonus with those are you get beans to eat! (Course now, I've touted "edible green manure" crops quite often, too, i.e., beans, peas, peanuts, etc).
I'd almost recommend crown vetch for your corn patch, kathy but I'd be afraid of it taking over as it is very well known for being extremely hardy in hot weather (and cold, too) if not cared for properly it may take over. I even wonder if it will take out your corn patch.
So, don't be shy with vetches, they sure have their place in society! Er, uhh, I mean the gardens!
Shoe
Thanks for restoring my faith in vetch, Shoe, LOL!
I would think tho that fava beans would be too large, but maybe that was only the one variety I saw growing, but it was definitely not a ground cover type crop, tall as corn itself almost.......
I too love an edible cover crop, is why I like to cast spinach seeds in the late fall in my regular veggie garden, All winter I can have fresh spinach to eat. then we disk it all up in the spring, And the kale, well, it has this huge tap root that if you don't get it all comes back after being disked up, most times I hve to pull the root and toss it. Spinach isn't like that.
I think i'm going to do some buckwheat in my corn, and down one row I'm going to try the squash just to be creative, see if it works.
Wonder if I can get buckwheat locally. Will have to do some checking on that, would never use a 50 pound back of it LOL
Sounds like a good solution!
I would think you could get less than 50lb seed..... even for cover. I bought a one lb bag of clover last year.....
I can get clover too in the one pound bags, but just not sure about buckwheat.
When should I plant the buckwheat? How far up should the corn bealready when I plant the buckwheat?
Well, Kathy, t his surely is not local to you, but here is the page where you can get various amounts of various covers from Territorial, they are in Oregon but a good outfit:
http://www.territorialseed.com/prod_detail_list/69
Thanks, I've seen the buckwheat on other internet sources too. Will keep it in mind if I can't find it locally
Feed and Seed type places have buckwheat, and some of those places sell by the pound. And you're right, 50 pounds goes a long way! I use it nearly everywhere there is a blank spot in the garden though...end of rows, where I don't want to mow grass for a while, along the ditches by the road side, etc.
You want to plant the buckwheat when the soil is warm, which'll be when you sow beans. If you sow your corn in cool soil then sow it once it gets up a few inches, I bet by then the soil will be warm enough.
And yes, Kyla, I bet the fava beans you saw were of the Windsor type, about 4 ft or so high. There are lower growing ones, Crimson Flowered comes to mind, but I was only mention favas 'cus they are a vetch, not necessarily for interplanting with corn.
Okay, back outside before I lose my daylight.
Shoe
Ok, Guys/gals. I have one more question I think LOL
I have exhausted all my efforts to find buckwheat locally. I know I have some time left before I have to have it, but I'd like to go ahead and get it now.
I have to purchase it on line, I only need a pound or two at the most, unless I plant it in my front veggie garden, but if I plant in my front veggie garden, it would have to be in late fall, say September. Is that not a good idea? to plant the buckwheat in the fall? as a winter cover crop? Just checking. It will make my amount that I buy different.
Also, Start naming those on line places that sell cover crop seed if you could I'm looking for the cheapest source of course LOL I think I got a catalog that states johnnyselect seeds carry it, and I know territorial seed carries it. Any others?
I checked willhite, they don't sell cover crop seed.
Thanks in advance
Kathy
Yikes, I'm gonna have to put up an electric fence for sure, Didn't realize this stuff would attract deer, But I dind't have to worry about the deer last year, my geese and guineas at the corn down to the ground. I no longer have to worry about the geese and guineas though LOL. Just the deer
What about this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BUCKWHEAT-Seed-Deer-Turkey-Bee-Plot-1-2-acre-5-LBS_W0QQitemZ250374055715QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
Well, that auction just told me that it's not frost tollerant, so I'd want to plant in Late august and till it under in Say end of October right? cause if the frost got it there would be nothing for nutrution for the ground right? Just checkin.
Doesn't seem like it's all that expensive. Unless I can find it cheaper on those web sites.
Wow, That ebay auction was way cheaper than those two web sites I mentioned above. He look s pretty reputable with his good feedback
Buckwheat is not a good winter cover crop. For Winter I'd grow something along the lines of crimson clover, vetch, rye, oats, etc.
Back to controlling grass in your corn patch, since you have to order buckwheat I wonder if you should try using "WOW", a corn gluten based weed suppressant. You could broadcast it after your corn has declared and it will stop weed and grass seed from germinating. It's listed as controlling crabgrass, bermuda grass, and many weeds. It also is a source of nitrogen, too
Shoe
Where does one buy WOW at ?
Regarding "WOW", that is a name brand for corn gluten, sold by Gardens Alive. I just looked up their site and here's a link for more info:
http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=548
I'm sure a Google search for 'corn gluten' may bring up other source. I bought a big bag several years ago but can't remember the source. If I come across it while doing paperwork this evening I'll holler.
Just remember, if you use corn gluten you have to use it after the corn has germinated AND if you want to plant something else there it'll have to be transplants rather than seed or it'll inhibit those seeds from germinating, too (just like it does with weed/grass seed). I think it works for several months but don't quote me, it might work longer.
Shoe
I just read on the territorial seed site that buckwheat needs to be disked in when it starts to flower, but it didn't say why. Any clues as to why?
I guess I should pass on the WOW then,
Many cover crops/green manure crops are turned under just before flowering as that is when the most nutrients are in the plants. Also some crops are turned under before they set seed so you don't have volunteers. As for me, I don't mind having some volunteer buckwheat since it is such a quick growing plant and is easily turned under later. More often than not I tend to resow it anyway so it's like getting free seed if I let it flower and produce! I can't think of a better volunteer to show up in the garden.
Hope you figure out what you wanna do with your corn patch. I despise Bermuda grass in the garden and hope you can get rid of it!
shoe
I'm pretty sure i'm gonna go with the buckwheat, thanks for the help I appreciate it.
This has been so informative, Kathy Ann, I hope you'll come in and post about how it works out!
Kyla