Dh knows quite a bit about aquatics from having a 366 gallon freshwater tank, but I know this being outdoors is a bit different.
At Lowe's we found a 100 gallon pond for 40 bucks so we got us one & his mom one.
Is there any specific type of pump, filter - anything that we should know about in advance? I want to be sure we have the right things to get this going correctly. I'll need to be getting things for two ponds.
Here is the liners.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=56569-000001569-LP7918&lpage=none
New koi ponds ... advice for setup
The main thing is what are you planning on putting in the pond? plants only? goldfish? Koi fish? The answers to your questions start after you answer mine! The main differences are each needs different things with plants being the easiest and koi the most difficult to keep. Let us know so we can help!
L
You mentioned koi pond and a 100 gallon definately won't be enough room. Koi grow to be several feet in length. There are many goldfish that resemble koi like wakin and shubunkin, the average rule for goldfish is 1 per 10 gallons.
E: I mentioned Koi-not them. . . Hold your horses! No koi scoldings yet . . . LOL!
Ok, Dh & I would like plants & small koi.
I have high light shade - filtered with a few hours of direct sunlight close to midday.
ok, I think we were posting all at the same time.
I didn't know koi got that big. Nevertheless, dh says koi but if they get too big, than they get too big & we need to decide on something else.
Koi is mentioned in their heading:)
E - are you reading the posts?
Google wakin and shubunkin. They really are neat fish. My shubunkin are gorgeous. They get long fins are have calico colors mixed with blues. They are my favorite in the pond.
For a pump you will need a pump that at least turns the 100 gallons over once an hour so something 100 gph, but more could be better. Filter for goldfish I would go with over filtration, which will keep the water cleaner. Maybe something rated for 300 or more gallons.
Sorry, the posts are coming quicker then I can read them;) LOL
ooo, great info evesta! Off to google I go!
First of all, 100 gals won't support koi, so plan on goldfish and shubunkins. There are some all in one submersible pump and filter kits that work well in smaller water features. They are easy to maintain, no plumbing required. All you need is an electrical outlet nearby. The link below is just to give you an idea of this type of set up. It has the filter and the pump in one submerged unit. To clean it, you unplug it, pull it up, clean the filter material, drop it back in and plug it back in. Simple. In the winter the whole thing comes out and gets stored for next year.
There is also the possibility that if you get enough plants going you might need a pump only to circulate and aerate the water, as the plants would use the fish waste as fertilizer. It depends on how many fish you put in the pond. With lots of plants and just 4 or 5 goldfish you might not need a filter at all. With your DH experienced with an aquarium he'll understand the need not to overstock the pond.
Some tips about installing a preformed. It has to be dead level. The bottom, sides and especially the edges of the preformed shell have to be 100% fully supported by earth, preferably sand that's been well watered in. Gaps in the winter allow the shell to distort from freezing of thawing and cracks develop. The edges are usually where a preformed cracks if the installation isn't good.
http://www.pondmasterstore.com/home/pm1/page_47_14/pm_190_kit.html
Edited to add another source for small pond all- in one:
http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/pondmaster/pondmaster-190-filter-system.shtml
This message was edited Feb 15, 2009 11:27 AM
Hey ya'll? Are we taking koi or not? 100 gallons won't support koi.
I would love to see pictures of your husbands aquarium set up. That sounds like a monster of a tank! What kind of fish does he keep?
Sorry E, my apologies! I didn't read the stinking heading. . . NO KOI! My koi hospital tank is about that size and they can not survive more than two days in it!
No problem;) I had to reread it myself, because I am somehow multi tasking by typing on the computer, building train tracks and playing catch with my son. LOL As soon as I even look at the computer he suddenly wants my attention!
I couldn't keep all it straight with no distractions!
ok, I like both - the shubunkin and the wakin. Really neat. I'll see what dh thinks, but if I say koi is a no go, he's cool with that. I think we just meant "fish pond" and I said koi cause that was the first thing that came to mind, but didn't know they got that big. Makes sense? We want to have the right fish based on the fact that this is a pretty small pond.
E - the aquarium we had was in another house and was RIDICULOUS to move. It was acrylic 8' x 3' x 3'. We had african cichlids in there and tons of them. My fav was the frontosas. We have several of those.
They used pvc and inline rainbow canisters. 6 or 8 of them, can't remember. Carbon, UV, etc. We donated it to "Something Fishy" aquatics store in Memphis when we moved and Ken (the owner) now has it as his show tank. We have talked about getting another one but right now we're focusing on fixing up the house a bit first.
They are both cool fish. Wakins have lots of personality, are very curios fish and have that koi kohaku look, the red and white, that most people think of when they think of koi.
Shubunkins are easier to find then wakin in the states but wakin are worth the hunt. Wakin have a little hump to their back and they remind me of little hump backed whales or dolphins when they surface:)
Like I said I think the shubunkins are the prettiest of the fish. I saved one from a skimmer death once and he has been my buddy ever since. I definately think they rival koi with their beauty. The blue they bring to the pond is a nice touch.
Watch out, ponding is addictive especially if your husband is already a fish person. This could be the first of many ponds;) Have fun!
I'll bet you all a water plant division, postage free, that in two year's time they'll have a big rubber lined hole filled with water somewhere in the back yard. If they were that advanced an aquarium enthusiast, then there is really no hope for them to escape a big ol' pond. Absolutely no hope at all.
I'm not taking that bet because I know you are right. It's always fun to watch and track progress! It is safe to assume 2Racing boys (of what type of race I don't know but am interested? . . .) will soon be a new good friend from Daves!
Ya'll are funny. We would have this whole neighborhood a pond if we could, but that's just not possible. lol
We haven't added a pond yet b/c dh is just super swamped all the time & I'm a wimp & can't do it alone. lol Besides working ALL the time, dh has been the track director for our local BMX race track for 3 years now and both my boys race very competitively which means lots of travel to other states for more competition. For us, it's been about getting area kids on bikes to just have fun. Not only that but it keeps the older ones from going to the streets looking for something (or worse) to do because many parents aren't involved with them at all, much less sports.
Getting back on the subject, I'm so excited about this. I found some pond stuff on eBay. Snapple, is this the same thing you posted earlier? It looks the same and the name is the same but there is a tube. Not sure what that's all about. Maybe you guys know. ???
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pondmaster-Garden-Pond-Filter-System-and-Pump-Model-190_W0QQitemZ260361110580QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
Yes. It is the same. The "plastic tubing" allows you to position the pump any where you want in the pond away from the filter to get best the circulation pattern. It looks like a pretty good deal.
I just saw this thread and have not read through everything yet - but I have the preformed "Key Largo" and the circulation in there was horrible, even with a filter system for a 900 gallon pond. The KL is 270 gallons. I went out and bought a 300 gallon Rubbermaid tub and moved my one surviving baby koi into there a few weeks ago - it works much better as a small fish pond because of the straight sides and added depth. Most of the stronger submersible pumps need at least 18" of water to work right and filled to the brim the KL was just barely that high. I'm going to put it outside this summer as a lotus bog.
Little koi get big fast. "Poppy" the koi went from three inches at the beginning of November to six inches at my last "guestimate" and more than doubled in girth. Even with 300 gallons and only two fish (Poppy plus a pleco), I do 30% or more water changes at least once a week, usually twice. I'm adding four new little koi this weekend as I finally feel the biological system is established and Poppy needs other fish to hang out with. Koi need a much cleaner environment than goldfish, they are just overall a lot more work.
Elizabeth
oohhh, I'm getting worried IC. More fishes? Racing boys-WARNING IC is addicted to the koi-Seriously ADDICTED! I am new to ponding and have a lot of enthusiasm for the pond and koi but IC is still in the planning stages of a pond and she already has her preformed pond set up in her basement (long story-stick around you will figure it all out). IC has been very entertaining the past few months. Hang with her and you two can go crazy together . . . LOL!
Happy Ponding!
MM, I'm way ahead of you, LOL. I've been nagging 2RB to come to Iowa and I'll drag her to all the great hosta haunts : ) You're absolutely right that I've kind of been addicted to planning the large pond - I've been hand wringing lately thinking that I should really wait until 2011, LOL.
My ammonia level has been nearly 0 every time I've measured it once I moved from the preformed liner to the stock tank. I think the liner just was not deep enough and the water circulation was screwed up terribly because it has a bunch of twists and turns. The bottom drain in the stock tank helps immensely because I just turn a valve and water goes to the drain, with the other I had to take off the netting, get a siphon going - it was a royal pain.
I hope I'm not setting myself up for more heartache with the new koi - we bought 4 (two 4" and two 6") so there will be a total of 5 tiny fish in the 300 gallon tank, with filtration rated for a 900 gallon tank. It has been more than three months since I began with this filter and the biological filtration is definitely working now.
Snapple, thanks for the warning about the preformed installation, I'll have to make sure we're really careful. If it gets to be too annoying I'll just buy a liner and use that for my lotus bog : )
2RB, if you have a lot of free time you can scroll down in the water gardens forum and find some of my rants and raves about the initial few months trying to keep my koi alive. The remaining survivor has been alone for over a month now so I think my little ecosystem is finally ready for a few more fish.
Oh Lord, I'm scared now. lol
I have read some stuff and I'm really just a little shaky in my boots.
I don't want to get in this deep, not like you IC and not like the hostas either. lol
I did mention to dh that we need to take the boys racing up north this year & he just gave the "now what?" glance. XD
I am a stay home mom with all kiddos at school, but sheesh...I do not want to deal with water changes all the time or anything like that. Best to leave that to dh and keep me in the dirt where I belong. lol I always say to watch it, cause I may end up blowing something up. Literally. A small pond isn't out of the discussion either. They can blow up just as well as anything else! lol lol
I think I just have a really compulsive nature, LOL. The more I read, the more apprehensive I get with the ponding. I had two horses until last year, when the work-life-trying to keep horses balance just got completely out of hand. I found good new homes for both of the mares and like to joke that planning the koi pond has become my "new expensive hobby." I swear I have a whole library of koi books now.
At least the hostas are easy to keep alive and don't require an expensive environment that takes constant maintenance.
But you know what...when Snapple posts some of those gorgeous pictures of her huge fish, it is hard not to want that kind of set-up!
Oh my gosh, I know! I have seen these peoples pics and it's like wow, I really have a sissy of a pond, but oh well. lol
It's funny cause I have been on this massive-makeover thing too. WAY compulsive! lol My best friend swears I have ADD ... baaaaad! lol
Sad thing is, she's right! lol
I have been on a war path to get the hosta bed done, the rose garden done, then dh yelps for a pond and it's like oh geez! yay! lol
one of these day we MIGHT get something completed, but I am not - I repeat - I WILL NOT let dh get fish crazy! Last time I let him have his way with fish we were under attack by african cichlids! Literally! lol
Hey 2racingboys don't let this bunch of compulsive over achievers get to you. ( You know who you are!) Large does not automatically mean beautiful. Small water gardens can be absolutely exquisite. You will be amazed at just how much will be going on in your 100 gals. You'll have a complete aquatice ecosystem ( just like the big ones) by mid summer with lots less work and expense. By July you'll be sitting by it with a sweet tea watching the busy goldfish dart in and under the plants. It's a mini vacation without leaving home.
IC, I think having your little 300 gallon pond until you have your big pond is the way to go. I might not have moved so fast if I had had a smaller pond to appease me during my build. Small koi will be fine in there as long as it is well filtered and you do water changes. I've seen how the big koi keepers keep dozens of those small koi in the 300 gallon stock tanks till they are big enough to swim with their big koi.
I would like to see your 300 gallon set up because that is probably what I will be going with for my temporary pond. I'm thinking I will put the koi in the 300 gallon and my goldies in the 110. Not sure how I can set them up with the same filter though. My biostep can handle a 1300 gallon koi pond so it should be enough for both. If you have pics of your set up I would love to see it. I'm especially interested in setting up a make shift bottom drain to run to the filter, not sure if you have anything like that.
This pond stuff is addicting and if you are a little OCD like myself, well there really is no hope:)
I'll start a new thread this weekend to show what my 300 gallon setup is like. If you are creative with plumbing you can probably figure out a way to use the same filter for both the 110 and the 300 gallon ponds. I'll take pictures of my setup after I get the new fish in there.
The koi guy where I'm getting my fish from was kind of amused at my concern that five little koi would overwhelm my system - like you said the dealers keep dozens of small koi in systems that size. Dax and a few other DGers were at my house two weekends ago for a potluck I hosted before we went to listen to the Zilis talk at the Iowa City library. She could not stop laughing at little Poppy the koi in his container all by himself.
I was in the big box petstore where I bought Poppy the other day and they had some tiny new koi in stock - long finned. They were cute and I thought "Poppy was that small just a few months ago!" It is so much fun to feed him each morning and watch him swimming around in his domain. Definitely the most relaxing part of my day is the ten minutes I spend with Poppy the koi in the morning!
Too true - Poppy has a veritable castle and estate there -- hope he is getting used to his new Koi brothers, Elizabeth -- they have to be in koi heaven with all that room, the heater, the aerator, and the little places to hide!! :)
Dax
Dax, we're going to pick up the new koi this Saturday - I hope Poppy doesn't attack them!
My fish always flip out when they meet new fish. Everyone starts swimming wilding around each other, you can tell they are enjoying themselves. I bet Poppy becomes the leader of the pack;)
OOoo - neat memory - I was amazed at how they love to be a school!! I'm sure you'll love it, Beth, they are like perfectly synchronized swimmers as they glide around - I could watch them for hours! Thanks for reminding me - can hardly wait for spring -- here's a pic of my babies schooling last summer -- Dax
I'm sad. Most of the summer my sickly fish hung out at the bottom of the pond. . . I want them to swim and be happy! Hopefully the bio-filter and UV will make that a reality!
ADD or ADHD-I have it also (ADHD)> I figure since my kids have ADHD I must be the person they get it from . . . Funny thing is my kids are probably more organized than myself.
For sure, mothermole - before I put in my UV filters, the water was always green and muggy - couldn't see the fish most of the time. You know that "balance" everyone talks about? Never saw it. But now - clear water, and can see the fish perfectly. In the above pic, they are about 2 feet down. Don't have any before pics because I never wanted to take any - but here's another of my babies from last year. If you look closely, you can see some cleeeeear down, under other ones -- ALL because of the UV's -- Dax
Dax that's awesome! Your water is really clear. I am praying our little pond turns out ok. Dh is super smart with all this stuff but you know how we get all paranoid over nothing. lol I'm worried about it & it's not even in the ground yet. sheesh.
So what kind of plants do you all use? I'd like some of the smaller things on the sides like the neat smaller elephant ear types - maybe alocasia's or something. I have no idea what "pond plants" are.
My favorite smaller ones - well-behaved are --
Marsh Marigold -
