Scarify then Soak? or the other way around?

I've got just a couple of seeds of Butterfly Pea (Clitoria ternatea) and Vigna Caracalla (corkscrew vine).
I read to soak and or scarify.

Is there an order to do this? or does it not matter.

thanks
mj

Passionflowers require this, too. I usually soak for a day in a mix of warm water and milk. Soaking in something acidic (milk contains lactic acid) will break down the seed coating. I've never had to do anything else to get them to germinate.

They both are ways of getting through hard seed coats--typically you shouldn't have to do both, but if the directions do say both then I'd scarify first and then soak.

Well, I didn't get a set of directions. I was reading different methods and one said scarify and one said soak...and somewhere else it said to do both !!Yikes!! So got really confused.

From what I understand, like ecrane said, both methods are just a way to get through the seed coating. If you have enough seeds maybe try some with scarifying, some with soaking, and some with both and see what happens...it'd be an interesting experiment!

only have two seeds of each.......I'm soaking now, and will probably nick before sowing? Anybody else sowed these and what did you do?

With the Vigna, when I soaked without nicking first, the seeds did not swell... and after a number of days, had not germinated. When I nick and then soak, the seeds swell up (twice their size, easily) and then germinate in a few days with bottom heat.

I went ahead and nicked them too.

mjs someone was asking about corkscrew last week. Here's the thread for some additional reading.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/950251/

Lala_Jane......
Thank You that was very helpful.
Esp. the part about not keeping too wet.
I nicked the seeds and put them back in warm water and they have already swollen up more. I'll sow them later this evening.

I just scarified some moonflower and morning glory seeds with 220 grit sandpaper and soaked for 24 hours. They swelled by approximately 1/2 their original size. In the past I had poor luck germinating moonflowers, but didn't scarify or soak. I hope I haven't gone overboard by doing both this time. I'll report my results when I begin to see germination.

What does everyone mean when they say they nick the seeds? Do you use a razor and slice off a piece? How do you do this with a seed as hard and small as a morning glory?

Well the a (Clitoria ternatea) vine single is already up,and the Vigna Caracalla (corkscrew vine), is peeking thru, so soaking and nicking seems to really speed things up. I had sowed some moonvine and Little Bell Morning Glories w/o soaking or nicking and no sign of them yet but it's only been since this last weekend...(4-5 days?)....I may just grab them up and soak them if I don't see something soon, but some seeds take longer than others so maybe I should just leave them alone.
This is all new to me so I guess this year will be a learning experience . I've got salvia that were sown this last weekend too that are already peeking up, and goodness the marigolds are already at least and inch tall and I just put them in this last weekend! So, I'm learning, some things come up very quickly and others need time.

How deep should the nick be. How do you know when the nick is too deep?

Is the depth the same for all seeds?

Jerry

Although I can't grow the plant you are referring to in my zone, I have others that require the same treatment.

Scarifying seeds is nicking to weaken the outer seed coating so that moisture can penetrate into the actual seed. In order to do that you need to nick first, then soak.

I use nailclippers and carefully chip a tiny piece off. You have to be careful so that the seed inside isn't injured. Best done on one end of the seed, rather than in the center. You can also use a file to score the seed. Even sandpaper can do the trick on some seeds.

Good luck.

blomma, Thank you for explaining about scarifying seeds. Now I understand.

Which of the follow may need to be scarified:

Okra
Dwarf Shasta Daisy
Tall Canna Coral 8-12’
Tecoma Stans Yellow Bells
Cosmos Sulphureus Cosmic Orange 3-5’ staked
Hollyhock Alcea Rosea
Prairie Meadow Mix
Purple Hyancinth Bean Vine
Double Purple Datura
Sunflower Mix
Sabal Mexicana Texas Palm
Pincushion Flower Scabiosa Columbaria "Blanca"
Morning Glory Orange Noah
Mexican Flame Vine Seeds
Globe Amaranth - Bachlor Buttons
Zinnia Sunbow Mix
Bush Morning Glory
Yellow Elder/Gold Star Esperanza
Texas Lilac/Vitex/Chaste Tree/Monk’s Peper/Lilac Chaste Tree
French Marigold

Thanks

Jerry

Hi Jerry:
You're welcome. Glad to help. Instead of going down your list of plants, try the following link. It will take you to a seed germination data base. You can enter common or Latin names.

Generally, any hard coated seed like Morning Glories need to be nicked. Likewise for tree seeds. You have plants listed that I'm not familiar with because they don't grow in my zone 4. Also, I plant only perennials. One exception is the Datura. That one need to be soaked in hand hot water over night before sowing. No nicking. Sow 1/8" deep. Will germinate at 60 to 70F degrees in up to 30 days, with stragglers.

http://grow.ars-informatica.ca/plant_index.php

Just by looking at them, you'll be able to see the difference between the hard coat of a big canna seed (which would probably benefit from nicking & soaking) and the almost straw-like texture of a marigold or scabiosa seed (nothing there to nick!). Sunflowers have a hard shell, but it must be pretty absorbent so water gets in fine -- I've never nicked them.

If you plant something like a morning glory seed without nicking/soaking, odds are it will still come up (might take a little longer)... if it doesn't, you can always poke around in the pot and get the seed back to try again with nicking/soaking this time.