Need help on ID insect/diagnosis on "sick" mg

Hi guys,

came home to this, haven't been attending to them. First, the leaves start off healthy and then I notice these little bugs on the plants. After 2-3 weeks, the plant wilts. These black insects live on top of the leaves, while if you look at the underside of the leaves, there are little white long ones, similar looking to the black ones.

What are they and what are my optional remedies? I think they're killing off my plant before they can bloom...

Eliz

more of them..

I tried soap + oil + water. takes away most of the population, but in a day or two the numbers have multiplied

..then the leaves turn like this (maybe because of normal aging? maybe because of these little guys? I don't know)

then it turns like so..with bigger circular spots of a different discoloration

Sometimes the leaves also turn like this, and then it'll turn out like the picture above

they spread fast, within one week, it's not just ipomoeas affected but also my lablab and prunus

Did you soap and or oil the SOIL, after watering, that would kill eggs in the dirt, in one experience I had. Though I do not know the name of the black bugs, I have had (similar) ones ~ douse the dirt and that might work, helped me...
:Darren

hmmm, well I looked it up on the internet, how to use the soap and oil and water combination. I sprayed the leaves with the concoction, killed them instantly but came back 2x as much in numbers. Darren, the soap and oil and water combination did not kill your mgs? is it safe for them?

Come to think of it/forgot to mention....before these little black bugs appeared, I massacred a whole population of these insects as shown below on the picture (they are gnats? yes? no?). When the population of these guys went down, the little black bugs then started appearing.

theres always Schultz 3 in 1 spray if it get TOO uncontrollable; I always have it on hand for my
Bulbs...
darren

I had the bugs on a variety of house plants & trpicals; i think it would be OK but again, i would focus in the dirt it where ''mine'' had their eggs~I got this info from a nursery. it was ok on Hoyas and other trops...they look the same especially in the yellow pic you opsted Is it NEEM oil you are using that would definitely be ok I am prettey sure, i would dmaili Ron about OILs and NGs. BUT HIT THE SOIL now...even with just a little dishsaop and water. again Shultz if it gets too bad I succeeded with the saop alone and the dirt thouhg it took several days!

bad typing LOL sorry U get the Idea yes? get the soap water MIST the HECK out of the dirt so the TOP is REALdamp~ THEN MIST heavily with the dishsoap and H2o mix you may see black ones flying out of the dirt as you do this or when you water???? I did. I will let someone else put in a word and watch for your success! They will DIE little critters!

yes sirrrr i got the idea. lol I read that somewhere too, I'm just too chicken to pour anything other than water. But will do tonight...

When I water, I do not see anything flying out. The little bugs (the first few pictures) they do not fly around - they just crawl. The ones that got stuck to the yellow sticker, those ones fly around

I saw a stictocardia at my local nursery I think - I would like to buy it but cannot purchase it because of these bugs. I'm scared that they might invade it and I'll just waste my money hehehhe

Thanks Darren for the suggestions =)

just mist REAL heavy then dont actually water the soap & oil in, water normally and then the misting will go deeper with out hitting the roots but will hit the eggs is what I am trying to spit out, does that make sense?
:D

I don't wait till I have an infestation to spray. This seems stupid to many people, but if it keeps the infestations away, I feel good spraying when I don't have any visible bugs yet.

I bought some neems oil, and was just put it on qtips and hang them amongst the plants, but the neems oil stinks so bad, I would rather use something else.

Frank

the little things crawling in the dirt sound like the nymphs of the fungus gnats you have stuck to your yellow sticky paper.. I too have those but they have diminshed since I start sprinkling cinnamon dust on everything.. I also use a couple drops in the mist bottles for the soil, along with a couple drops of oil.. the bugs are in the top inch or two of your dirt, they like the damp.. try watering from the bottom, and use warm water when you spray. I have been cooking my dirt in soapy water in covered micro dishes since I had my outbreak of those fungus gnats.. and that has helped a ton.. I walked around my whole areas of plants with a huge 4.00 jar of cinnamon and poured it into my hand and blew it on everything including the MGS and so far they are all okay after two weeks.. it smells good too and keeps mold and fungus away as well as keeps the bugs away.. neem oil is good with a drop or two of soap in warm water for misting.. hope this helps.. I learned the hard way not to use dirt from outside this year..

The small slender insects in the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6079143
are thrips
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1699409
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=1699411

The leaves here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6079161
look like spider mite damage,but could be from a number of causes that cause that type of discolored / mottled wilt...

I'd use a mixture of neem and
diatomaceous earth...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4890707


TTY,...


Ron

Hmmm ... I haven't seen anything attacking my indoor MGs. Except too much sunlight. I still need to cover the window with a thin screen of fabric or something. I used seed starter commercial potting soil and mixed it with Moisture Control potting mix. No bugs that I have seen so far and it's been two months. I haven't used anything on them either except fertilizer. I like the cinnamon idea. I've heard to use that before as well. Worth a try.

I bought a Neem cake. Which is stronger than neem oil. But the instructions say to mix it with soil and compost. And not use it with seeds as it could stunt or prevent the seeds from sprouting and growing. Probably because of the high neem content in the cake.

I just got a 4 oz bag of bulk cinnamon for tea, and now, it has a second use ~that's great~ ! I would rather smell that indoor and use neem oustside I guess.

so far everything is happy with the cinnamon dust... good excersize for your lungs while blowing from the palm of your hand LOL
no blooms yet...no buggies now, hope the thrips get gone from your mgs Eliz... ( I better look up a thrip.. never have seen them .. knock on wood..)

is it just ordinary ground cinnamon from the supermarket?

yup, but i use generic cheapest kind bulk size .. saves $$$ I use really good ole watkins cinnamon for cooking.. it is not cheap..:P~

not too heavy and concentrate on the dirt more than the leaves.. keep misting the leaves to keep them breathing..

thanks Debra

Hello guys,

just an update.

I initially used Darren's method of soap water and oil and then a day later, I used schultz (bug killer..) on the leaves and stem. They seem to be more undercontrolled =D. I think I will also try the cinnamon and sprinkle some on top (kinda sounds like I'm putting together a snack).

I cannot find diatomaceous earth locally so I used these methods above.

I also did not know that these home-made stuff are generic killers/concoction.....

and yes the wilting and black spots seems to be a different problem. they only occured on mgs located on the other side of my room.... hopefully they didn't spread to my other mg vines...

Thank you for the ID of these insects and thank you all for the suggestions!

Eliz

Eliz.... i have a feeling that some cat litter brands are made from diatomaceous earth... i don't know how useful it would be though...

charcoal in that too isn't there? great for drainage, or would it cement together, i..e from ''clumping''??...not a cat owner, I...

don't know Darren.... i'm not a cat owner either.... got a jack russell called maze :-)

EVR, here is a method of bug control you may not really like, but we all know that nicotine kills. Bum a chew of leaf tobacco, or buy some snoose, and soak it in warm water overnight. Nicotine used to be a primary commercial insect bomb in greenhouses. It is very effective. If you smoke or your husband smokes, just use a few cigarettes, or use the used filters from the ash tray. But bear in mind, that tobacco mosaic virus, can be spread by smoking...... If you smoke, fumigate the plants youself by blowing smoke on them up close. Frank

I just assosiated charcoal with cat liter for absobtive properties each have. Charcoal is great for drainage (this helps prevent mold, etc., more than insects though) and can be bought at garden centers or home centers too...
:D

isn't cat litter vermiculite? I searched this up about a year ago for my aquarium plants and some sources said that....I also used charcoal at the bottom of my aquarium for the same reasons.... hmmmm....

Frank lol sorry strictly no smoking inside the house, mother dear will kill me lol (and I have never smoked in my life). It sounds effective...what about other fumigating methods that's safe enough?

I still have thirps but in smaller population..but there yellow dots now on some of my plants!...I kill one thing/control one kind of pest, and then another ones pops up. It's very annoying =/

Cat litter can be made out of a lot of things, including diatomaceous earth. What a waste of Diatomaceous earth. I have seen it for $1/5# bag in the last year at the
dollar store.

The magic of the charcoal is due to 2 unique characteristics. Strong germicidal value, and it has 100 times the surface area of a pebble the same size. This is due to the porous hollow nature of the stuff Frank

what about using a sage or tobacco smudging wand? I made Sage ones for freiinds before. Don't know if sage will owrk but tobacco leaves can be made into a smadging wand easily!
darren