Anyone practice companion planting or guild gardening?

Indy, here's a photo of tomato tripods. This was taken in the south of France where everyone seems to use them. I got 7 ft. bamboo poles, some from friends with stands of bamboo and some from a garden supply house, and set them up, tying them at the top with twine. To make everything more stable we ran some of the thinner bamboo poles from top to top both along the rows and across the path onto the next row of tomato tripods (the parentheses I tried using to span the rows didn't work so you'll have to imagine straight lines from the xes in Row 1 to the corresponding xes in Row 2) :

x------x------x-----x Row 1

x------x------x-----x Row 2

I planted them rather close together because that's the way they're done in France; they're also pruned.

Leslie

This message was edited Feb 15, 2009 3:03 PM

Thanks for the information! Looks like your bamboo poles are thicker than the ones we typically have around here. I bet I could find them, though. And I like how you stabilize them with the bamboo on the top. I'm seeing all kinds of applications for this!

Last year I supported my cucumbers with four bamboo poles. I really like the look. I think I'll try to do tomatoes this year the way you suggested.

I liked that technique, and besides, it reminds me of France....I can have a café au lait or a croissant and imagine I'm there as I sit in my garden!

I like your cucumber setup. For our pole beans I used crisscross twine, but again stabilized the whole thing with bamboo poles at the top and bottom, as well as for uprights. You can use the thinner poles for crosspieces. They're pretty handy. If they weren't so invasive I'd have myself my own little grove of them.

Leslie

Well, folks, I live in east-central France and confess that I've never before seen a tomato tripod! Plenty of folks use the same thing here for beans! For tomatoes, most of us use single bamboo or wooden posts, tying the vine to the post as it grows and then just letting it go after it reaches the top. These pieces of bamboo are not very thick, indy-v, about like what you used for your cukes. We prune the tomatoes, too, allowing a lot more vines in the same space (which means more varieties), more air circulation, easier to work among the plants. Don't know about the effect on yield, but with closer planting, it perhaps works out about the same for the land area. I plant lots of lettuce and smaller marigolds among the lettuce (might try gg's Blue Salvia this year! Don't have that variety, but I have some others) and basils at the outside edges where they get the sun.

For years now, I have grown cucumbers on an A-frame made from a couple of pieces of rigid wire fencing left over from a fencing project. Since I also prune the cukes, that seems to work pretty well. Sometimes I grow dill, fennel or marigolds "inside" the frame.

For years, I've been using plastic garden mesh supported by bamboo tripods to support the beans. This year, I bought a couple of pieces of cloth garden mesh when I was in the States, and hope this will be easier to work with.

Here you can see the beans, the cukes and a few tomatoes.

I've never gotten good crops from "Marmande", although others do. Another French tomato, Montfavet 63/5 is a much better producer for me, although I mostly grow old heirlooms. I grow LOTS of raspberries! And the thing about them is that they are really invasive, and NOTHING grows well next to them because their root systems steall all the nutrients! Mine grow along the fence line, away from everything else. In one corner of the potager, we had some invaders crawl under the stone fence from the neighbours'. My wife liked them, so I left them. HAH!!! Big mistake!!! Still trying to root them all out, as they took over an ever-increasing area and robbed all nearby spaces of nutrients and production!

I've been working with grownut's "plan" for my aubergine bed, and am getting it to work out in some interesting transformations. He/she has not told how those 2 pictures were created, however, so I am still drawing on paper!! I ran across this this week-end and may give it a try : http://www.growveg.com/freetrial.aspx

Cheers,
Potagere

Returning to the original theme of this thread, using companion planting as a means of pest control is a complicated subject. There's a very interesting article on aphids at

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en507/papers_1995/hawley.html

Interesting article about aphids, patgeorge, but I'm not sure what the practical take-home message would be. Tansy and yellow sticky stuff, maybe? They don't seem to be a problem in my garden, though.

Potagere, my photo of tomato tripods was from the south of France, around Limoux and Quillan. I saw them everywhere in that area. Is Montfavet a hybrid type of tomato? I'm just growing standards, and I really like Cornu des Andes for paste and St. Pierre for slicing and general use. The blue salvia is really pretty; it's a pale blue so it really stands out. I like to intersperse it with my zinnias, too.

Interesting about raspberries; it sounds like it is less an antipathy than a competition, then. We have asparagus near the fence and then the raspberries, since we tried to put our more permanent crops in one place where they wouldn't interfere with rotations. I'll have to keep in mind that I shouldn't put heavy feeders in that spot from now on.

I checked out growveg.com but didn't like the fact that it was all on the web, and once you stopped paying them your information would disappear. Also I need something I can print out. It does look cute, though.

Potagere -grownut is a female named Kelly and she used AppleWorks -glad you like the idea!! ^_^

Sharing ideas on planting veggies together other than for insect control is also part of companion planting. Some plants are nutrient hogs. It is good to share with others which plants prevented others from growing. It is also useful to hear what plants thrived well for others when grown together in same space. Companion planting is more than insect control. It also which plants make good bedfellows and which do not.

Don't plant anything next the raspberries - good to know!

While we're talking about raspberries, I have a question. We found some raspberries (previously obscured by the ten thousand other things growing out there) in my friend's back yard. She has amazing, fertile soil with a pH of 7.2. Can I apply sulfur (right?) near the existing raspberries to bring the pH down? Or do you have to ammend the soil before the raspberries are there?

I'm going to clear out the weeds and maybe mulch them, but other than that I don't know.

And thanks for all of the information on bamboo supports!

This message was edited Feb 16, 2009 12:07 PM

We just put mulch/compost on our raspberries; we don't feed them anything in particular. On the other hand, some years we have really good crops and others not, and I don't know what makes the difference, so I may not be a good person to ask! Our soil tends to be quite acid; we're in the Pine Barrens.

There is an old saying that fruit crops are bountiful every other year. It seems to run fairly true in the home orchard and berry patch. I wonder if the plants are just smart enough to know they must rest some to keep things going.

grownut I could have sworn you were a boy! You're just so good with the technical wizardry LOL. I know, I'm a little jealous because my knowledge of technical stuff has been limited to the self taught kind that always seems to turn the air blue. Yes, I thought I would poke my nose in here for a look see.
I don't know about raspberries but some fruits only harvest well in alternate years. Hard fruits such as plums definately only crop well every four years - don't ask me why but I have noticed this throughout my life.
I wouldn't advise anyone to grow tansy - maybe I'm biased but they do tend to run riot and have the most disgusting aroma of any of the herbs.
Just been putting the final touches to my lasagne bed and it should be ready to plant in a few weeks. I'm going to start with pak choi sown in situ as it's a nice easy plant with a small root system and doesn't mind a bit of frost. As it's so early I'm going to combine it with pennyroyal - I'd be hard pushed to find another type of companion which would take our uncertain weather at this time of year.
I'm also planning to use most of my lasagne bed during the summer for the 3 sisters method with a bit of tweeking. Not only squash but cukes too. I do want other crops in between so will take advice about any small plants which may do well in this situation. Bearing in mind that we are not gifted with such reasonable weather as ya' all, what could I throw in beside my 3 sisters? I have to grow eggplant (aubergines) in a greehouse and most of my tomatoes too - apart from the small basket types. This year will be the first in ages that I'm planning to grow cukes outdoors.
Phew - I think that's about enough.
:-)) Rosie

Potagere ~ indy_v ~ greenhouse_gal ~ I am interested in your bamboo plant staking information.

Would y'all consider a separate thread for my education? 8 )

roseimp, will you be growing any cabbage, brussel sprouts, or other crucifers? They like the cooler temps. They are not as fussy as tomatoes.

Podster, I don't know that there's enough information to warrant a separate thread. What would you like to know?

As long as it's labeled CP...siiigh...

Kathy, I usually grow quite a lot of brassicas but due to this being a new garden I might not be able to. If I can grow some brussels after the 3 sisters experiment I will because I LOVE them and Christmas dinner just isn't the same without them.
I threw in the t(r)owel last year and decided enough was enough in my in laws garden (my other garden as I like to call it). After having suffered too many wet summers I decided that I was doing no more until we had some more raised beds - they are STILL at the planning stage so I may not be able to grow anything much there either. 2 years ago I had a reasonable crop of shallots which stood in water throughout the summer. Last year even my shallots held up their hands and surrendered!
I have always grown tomatoes which I love - they keep me sane LOL. Can't say the same about cukes though.

It would not be summer without a bright red tomato warm from the sunshine in my hand and juice dripping off my chin. It has to happen! Got to have fresh tomatoes and a swim in the creek or I would feel as though summer never happened. Everything else is just the icing on the cake.

Has anyone tried using netting over their squash plants to prevent the borers from attacking? I have a few simple questions ...when wouldy ou place the netting, 2nd how long do you let the netting remain or when would you remove the netting?

I've tried row covers for my zucchini, placed there as soon as I planted the seeds, and have left them on until the plants start to flower, so they can be pollinated. It buys you some time and some squash but it's not perfect. I've also tried growing parthenogenic squash that doesn't need pollinators, but the plants got so big under the cover that they were hard to manage and I think I only got one or two squash anyway.

Leslie

Started a new thread on plant supports here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/953870/

If the bamboo people would like to throw some of that good info over there, it'd be a nice way to get the discussion started. Thanks!

PODSTER :
You better come check this out!
Save me a DMail!

teehee!! hot to trot, I call it!!

Thanks Leslie!

I was reading about how Tansy is good as a pest deterent, but how it goes nuts, and had a thought.

Is there any reason that you could not put a pot of tansy among your vegetables? Being in a pot would keep it from spreading, and if it's in with the veggies it will get watered when they do, so it should grow. You would probably need to plan to make room for the pot, but if your garden doesn't cover acres and acres, putting a few pots in might be helpful.

Or, if space is a major issue, stick a 'shepherds hook' in the middle of the veggies, and hang a pot of tansy from that.

I'm thinking that this will allow you to get all the benefits of the companion planting for pest removal, without the annoyance of trying to keep your tansy under control.

What do you think?

I have used the "pot" method. It was the only way I could think to keep from increasing my weeding LOL.

Going back to what was said about edible companion plants (by Steven_Albert I think), has anyone tried Chamomile? I grow Chamomile in containers in a general herb planter but I've heard it is a very good companion plant, promoting the health of plants it grows close to. It is supposed to be especially good for growing near cabbages and onions and even wheat (if you like to grow that).
I usually use the flowers to make a calming tea and it is also really good for a upset stomach too.

I have sown chamomile in my wintersowing containers this year and plan to use it wherever I can. Did you know it used to be called The Plant Doctor? Meaning, grow it and it brings health to the surrounding plants. Well, that is one of those old stories....... but I do know I love the plant and hope it flourishes here. I love the way it smells. ;-)

I have found that many of those old stories had basis in fact. I do not discount them til I have tried it. But what do I know/ I consider every plant hardy til I manage to kill it myself!

Interesting comments on chamomile. Tea made from it turns my stomach, so I have refused to grow it. But, if it really help the veggies . . .

I finally got around to completely reading the article on aphid control that patgeorge recommended above. I think the most important thing I learned is that "an aphid by any other name is a completely different aphid". To tell you the truth, through all these years of gardening, I never fully realized that the aphids on my beans, the aphids on my brassicas, and the aphids on my roses are from completely different species AND genera (and the aphids on my different brassicas may be different, also)! As a consequence, it makes real sense that any generalization such as : "Basil repels aphids" or "Nasturtiums attract/trap aphids" may not be entirely accurate or even always as useful as we would hope.
I also noted, however, that Summer Savory may be effective in repelling the bean aphids (which are a regular problem in my garden). Well I love that herb and grow it where it shades my heucheras and fuchsias, but this year, I think I'll plant some at the foot of the pole beans and also hang some of the branches among the vines and see that has any effect.

Good info, Jim, thanks! I too did not know about the varieties of aphids but it does make sense.

And I don't enjoy Chamomile tea either but I like the way the plant smells in the garden. ;-) And it is pretty, too. And relatively drought tolerant, and of much interest to rabbits and deer -- many reasons for me to have it around.

It's a wonderful plant Kyla and very pretty too. Many stories are associated with Chamomile. It is one of the 'Nine Sacred Herbs' of Anglo-Saxon mythology, which were used as incense or cleansing herbs. Strangely enough I have tried a few of these herbs without even knowing that they had so much influence in folklore. Years ago someone suggested I try Wormwood (Artemisia vulgaris) for stomach problems (hangover LOL). I have only found out comparatively recently that it's quite toxic. All the same it did my stomach a lot of good on a few occassions.
I'm really into companion plants that can be used for food too. I'm a bit old fashioned and don't like to see anything go to waste I suppose.
LOL Katy, you have those sort of days too. I just almost killed a bat plant but then I was never good with indoor plants.

It would be a very human solution to make the vegetables drink your chamomile tea if YOU do not like it. Like and yet unlike giving lima beans to the dog under the table, lol...

Didn't know that about Summer Savory Pot. that's good to know.

Herb teas are something we may all have to get used to. I just seen a very depressing program about fossil fuel resources terminating in another 5 years or so. We may all need to cash in our pensions and buy up a couple of acres to grow our own food - some of it wild food too.

That dog is going to sit under the table a LONG time before he gets any of MY limas!
I bet you can grow tea in Ireland, Rose!
My pension wouldn't buy 1/2 an acre!

LOL.

Nor mine Pot - I haven't got one LOL. Can't grow tea here either apart from the wild unrelated sort. Trouble is we all think of tea as "Camellia Sinensis" but the word " tea " can mean an infusion of a lot of plants. Ahhh - the aroma of freshly brewed Yerba mate!

Edited to say - apparently it's disgusting!

This message was edited Feb 20, 2009 10:05 PM

My wife is Argentine, so there's always mate around the house. I kind of like it. The stuff in the little "tea bags", though, IS pretty disgusting!

The most disgusting tea I ever drank (or attempted to) was rooibos tea. It took a while for me to get use to chamomile tea but as for rooibos - never, not in a million years.