Let's talk containers...2009

We came from here

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/809636/

Last year my bright idea was to use plastic bags in clear plastic tubs for winter sowing. Well, it worked! I had very good germination, I think, and it was easy to handle. It's very simple to take the tops off on warm days and put them back on if it gets too cold. I opened the bags one at a time as they germinated. Watering was pretty easy, too. Each bag was like a little greenhouse, so they didn't need watering until they were opened. Then I could just water the whole tub like one pot. Just be sure there are plenty of drain holes in the big tub.

Naturally, I got carried away. I planted 7 tubs, each with 24 bags, 168 total. Approx. 1 1/2 tubs were annuals, the rest perennials. I also started between 100 and 150 plants in the house. I was totally overwhelmed and never got a good many planted. However, of the ones I didn't plant, many of them grew and bloomed nicely in their bags still in the tubs. The perennials are still outside in the tubs, near a basement wall to protect them somewhat. I figured I have nothing to lose to see if any of them might survive the winter.

What did you use last year? Did anybody else try my bag/tub combo? What were your results? The pic shows a tub with just annuals and there was only one bag that didn't germinate (mid-April)

Morning Jan---


Hmmm, what did i do last year... It's a blur and i hardly recall.

I'm getting close to starting this year... I've been collecting odd containers, mostly half gals [not drinking as much milk as we used to] and Qt sized H&H and Kefir containers, with the odd smattering of large yogurt, cottage cheese and sour cream containers.

Did pick up some MG yesterday from Home Depot.... smaller bag than what i get at Sams and for about the same price. I hope Sam's brings theirs back before spring.

I was also rummaging in the garage looking for my 'water sorb' crystals [didnt find'em though] and came across the various containers, including nursery pots - that i should be able to use too. I now need a warmer day, so i can get back out in the garage and tidy up my mess from the Fall cleanup.

This message was edited Jan 3, 2009 8:47 AM

Hi Jan--thanks for the reminder about your "bags in plastic tubs method." I'm going to try it this year, along with my usual my milk-jug & assorted containers method. I don't have quite as many plastic containers collected this year so utilizing your system will enable me to plant far too many seedlings LOL --getting carried away is my preferred type of Winter Sowing too! ;-)
You're saying that the bags were closed up tight until germination. Presumably they had little holes punched in the bottom of the bags? Were they watered by rainfall or collected snow coming into the larger plastic tub?
And did you do a lot of HOS plantings, with such good germination?
Thanks for the information.

Hi, folks, I cut drain holes in bottoms of the bags. They didn't need to be watered until I opened the bags because the closed bag kept the soil moist for me until after germination when it was time to open the bags. There are holes in the tops of the tubs, but I'm not sure how much rain/snow actually gets in. But I only have the tops on the tubs when it's below freezing.

I sure did a lot of HOS planting. Most of the very crowded ones got cut into 6 or 8 pieces. some I broke into 4.

I'm going to try to keep to 1 tub this year so I can play catch-up and take better care of what I already planted.

What is HOS planting?

Cajun It is amazing that those little plants will take off a grow but most of them will.
Therese The 'Strawberry Fields' is a gomphrena. I love it but have not saved the seeds. Let me know how your seeds do. I am not sure what part of that flower is seed. So far I still have some of my original pack but you know what, I have never ws them. Maybe I will this spring
Celia HOS means hunk o seedlings and that is just what it is. I plant alyssum and cut it out into little brownie squares before planting.
BTW last year my alyssum dropped seed and sprouted like crazy in late summer. Wonder if any will come up in spring.

Thanx for the answer!

Hi Jan I remember you from last year my first ws year. I took a whole year to commit to the idea after reading of other people and their successes. Now I am getting ready to s but don't need many plants mostly annuals, a few herbs and some tomatoes. I will be using mostly gallon water jugs (cleaner) and the plastic produce containers. They are great with that built on lid and they already have holes in them. Only problem I only have 3 or 4.
Those little bags look so neat all tucked into their "bed" together.
Veronica

Jan -- how did your 'rubbermaid' containers make it thru the season?
I recall someone saying that theirs cracked due to being in the weather.

Veronica... Yes, thank you... that was it. I'll snap an image of the seeds... i basically just crumbled the dead bloom, and i could see the seeds.

I may use some of the bags... i did get a bunch in the Co-Op last year... and put the nursery pots in them.
though i dont think i have a big rubbermaid bucket for them... maybe an old laundry basket for keeping them corralled.

Terese, I didn't have any problem with them cracking. yet anyway. they are still sitting outside with the leftover plants in them that never got planted.

Hi, Veronica. Those little produce containers should be great for herbs. Can't you beg more jugs from friends/neighbors? If not, try ziplocs. Just cut some drainage holes in the bottom, leave them open a bit for ventilation (some folks use a clothespin, I didn't have any so I used duct tape to keep them open)

For anybody who got the bags AND the cowpots in the co-ops, the cowpots fit nicely in the bags and can be used for any plants that don't like to have their roots disturbed.

I have been absorbing all this talk and find myself extremely interested but I have a question.

HOS means you just throw up to how many seeds into each bag.......lets assume I am gonna use gallon size ziplocs?

Henygirl HOS means after the seedlings are ready to plant out and they are pretty close together just cut out a hunk of seedlings and put them in the planting hole.
When sowing just scatter them on the soil in the containers. I didn't even cover mine just kind of patted them down. Some on here cover very lightly with vermiticulite (Spelling)? I may do that this year if I can find it this early. I doubt if I wll be able to

Heny --- in this image here... Jan, hope ya dont mind i used your photo....

you can see the ones that look like "Chia Pets" [that's what we call those where there are A LOT of seedlings VERY close together]

you would just take out a HUNK and plant it. the others in the photo, you can easily separate the individual seedlings and plant them out. but for the Chias... it's best/easiest to do the HOS method [hunk of seedlings]

Okay I am understanding the HOS thing now.

I want to do this and do it right that I get paralyzed with the fear of mistake......talked to my great aunt she told me #1 mistakes gardeners make.........they are 'chicken' and afraid to move things, try things, etc. A good gardener enjoys the 'trying' and succeeding.

So I bought two tubs today [on sale :)] I already had Sams Club ziplocs [about 100 gallon size] and seeds and soil. This is my plan.......not gonna do it till tomorrow but I want to run it by yall:

1. drill holes in lid of container
2. drill holes in bottom of container
3. slits on bottom of baggies
4. label, soil and put seeds into baggies
5. seal baggies and use lid to container during frost/snow days....below freezing days

Only open once they germinate or if they look thirsty.

OKAY did I pass, does it sound right? should I change anything........all the information begins to get jumbly.


I enjoy gardening and playing but have days it just isnt gonna happen so this sounds like something I can 'do' and then 'not do' depending on my schedule.

4. label, soil and put seeds into baggies

IF you use a Sharpie, keep out of direct sunlight... or look for a Paint Pen.

5. seal baggies and use lid to container during frost/snow days...below freezing days

you do not need to 'seal' the bags.... they do need to 'breath'. Some have used clothes pin to close part of the zip part.... but the fact that you have the lid on the container... i do not think you'd need to close the bag at all.


Others too will comment, and hopefully hit on this point....but since i;'ve never used bags in covered containers, i do not know for sure...

>>I get paralyzed with the fear of mistake.

WHen you see how easy this actually is... you will lose that fear. I forget one of the terms some of the gals used... but it's along the lines of a crock pot... "fix it and forget it"

put 'em out there and let "Mom Nature" take care of the rest.

Like tcs said, they need air exchange so leave bags open part way.

Also no need to apply snap on lid for below freezing weather. They're SUPPOSED to be exposed to the elements, and carefree, that's why they're outside in winter. My containers are frozen for months at a time some years. But since you are using bags the snap on lid might be helpful in heavy rain or snow, only to prevent the top of the bag from collapsing on the soil.

I use milk jugs, like this

Karen

My milk jugs under the snow. Yes, they're really under there.

Karen

I found Jan's image of her big Ziploc bags... here she uses tape [big silver stuff] where i've seen others use clothes pins.

this was in thread #2 of the original Lessons Learned... if you have not ventured into those threads.... It's good reading for a cold winters day.
image = http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3199575

original Lessons Learned.... http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/599007/
I think there are 6 threads in all... some chatter, but a lot of really good info for folks new to WS'ing.

Somewhere I read that you could apply clear finger nail polish over the plant tag after you mark it with sharpie.

Anybody else hear of this? Wonder if it would smear?

Jerry

Paint pens work really well, do not fade.

Just for clarification, I DID close my bags inside the tubs. It keeps the soil from drying out and is like a mini-greenhouse until the seeds germinate. Then they need to be opened. The seeds don't need to breathe.

Heather, the only other thing you should know is to put at least 4" of soil in the baggies so you'll have a really good root system by the time you set out your plants. Then once you get it outside, it really is a 'set it and forget it' until everything thaws in the spring and things begin to germinate. I had my first germination last year on March 21, but you are a zone warmer and much further south than I am, so I would begin watching for seedings earlier.

I like air, lots of fresh air. With uncontrolled outside temps, frozen one day then possibly 60 the next, I don't want mold or other undesirables growing in there. I use jugs (milk, water, 2 liter pop), no screw on cap, extra slits or holes around the shoulders.

It really was 60 degrees here on Sunday, now it's 31 with freezing rain (Tuesday).

I haven't even started sowing yet. First it was Christmas, then taking down the tree and decorations, now we're consumed with the new TV we're getting. It's being delivered Wed night, "installed" Thursday. We have to find some kind of shelving "media center" to hold all these stupid components (big TV, Blueray whatever that is, old VCR, Bose sound system, all this stuff my husband "needs"). Guess I'll be shopping sometime today or tonight. But eventually I'll start sowing.

Karen

Here is the picture.....I havent put the lid on yet, hubby needs to drill the holes.

I put 23 different varieties to sow. Also the elementary, middle and high schools are all interested in the project [I have kids in all three schools] they may do this next year. I am sure they will really appreciate the recycling aspect as well.

Yall are so smart!

Thanks for this thread. Now I know what to do with the extra see-into plastic under-bed containers that roll under the bed. My Mom who was very organized had blankets stored in these under her beds. After she passed away the containers passed to me and I just stored them in the barn.

Jerry

Those underbed storage boxes work well for cups. I use yogurt cups or styrofoam ones

Karen

We really use a little of everything, don't we? Last year I was on the hunt for any suitable container at the end of my ws. The neat thing is it all works if you give it water , air and light and be patient. I had a lot of green on mine last year (the soil) but it didn't seen to hurt my plants. The ones that germinated made it. I believe that the green could have been caused by my patio being on the N side of the house, I did try to get them in sun by moving them around. It is not rocket science!! Speaking of the green I kept thinking it was seeds germinating and kekpt watching them all the time. LOL

This is exciting. Karen, I see you use party trays that have their own covers. I have some of those also. I'm an empty container freak. At times I have been referred to as a stringer saver. LOL

That picture was from 2006, my first year. I don't use those deli containers anymore. I pretty much stick to jugs (milk, water, pop). First year I wanted to try a little of everything, even that year I used mostly jugs except what's shown in the picture. The jugs outperformed everything else by far.

I usually end up with a few cups, too- things for which I have just a few seeds, something where I only want a few plants of the type, etc.

I sometimes get that green gunk too (algae?) which is all over that table and patio, too. It grows on the north and east side of the house where there isn't much sun.

Karen

Oops, we cross-posted.

I had poor results with those containers. Jugs worked best, by far. Now I only use jugs, maybe a few cups in that underbed box.

Karen

Old timers used to have what was called cold frames on the South side of buildings. These were nothing more than wood boxes covered with window panes. At night the panes were lowered to close the box and then during the day when it was sunny the panes were raised to avoid cooking the seedlings.

I may try the under bed boxes as a cold frame just so see if it will work. It may be good for bringing indoor planted seedlings outdoors for the first time to harden them off.

Jerry

It was recommended by grampapa to take the lids off the bins....although they are clear it would give to a more natural light and air and drying as well.

I think it is exciting to try stuff out and then note what worked or didnt......

I'm wanting to try WS. After skimming through this thread, I will probably start with the plastic gallon jugs I have put back. I have both the clear type (water) and the "white" type (milk). Is one type better than the other? Will the "white" type allow enough light?

I have some containers that are white [my Half & Half, and Kefir]
they are a translucent white, and do let enough light in .
I wouldn't think one would be better than the other.

As long as you can see a "shadow" through your container, it will let enough light in to use for WS with the top on. For opaque white containers, like some of my milk jugs, I cut the top off completely off and pull a plastic zip lock-type bag over the top, with some cuts in it to let in water and air.

Oh the shadow thing is a good way of explaining.........jotting that down in my brain. :) Thanks!

TCS1366


I believe that plant is called Globe Amaranth, I grew some last year, and they make wonderful dry flowers...I grew Strawberry Fields.

Deann

Thanks for the white milk jug info. I'm planning to start "sowing" this weekend, using both the clear and white jugs. I have a good location on the south side of the house and it looks like it has stopped raining for a couple of days. Now the only thing I need to do is decide what to sow. This should be fun. I'll try to keep notes and maybe try to keep a journal.

Ah -- thanks Deann,

I also looked it up in my spreadsheet and the scientific name is Gomphrena haageana

but it goes by Globe Amaranth too, along with Strawberry Fields.

Veronica -- I did take a photo of the seeds a few days ago... now i just have to find where i put it.

Here are the seeds:

Just an FYI - The Globe Amaranth is very prolific. As the plant blooms and you either pick or just deadhead, leave one or two blooms on the plant to mature to its dry state, tan in color with straw-like texture. Each head will give you about as many seeds as you get in a pkt. of seed that you buy commercially.

They also come in several colors.

Happy Gardening

Jerry