Has anyone WSed in Central Texas?

This is my first year to try WS and I am wondering if the erratic weather here (50 degrees one day and 85 degrees the next) causes problems with wsown seeds. In theory, it seems some of the little buggers would be psyched into germinating then lost in a subsequent freeze. So just wondering about anyone's experience in this area. I'm in New Braunfels.

Tonya

Anybody?........Anybody? (Think Ben Stein in Ferris Buehler's Day Off)

I'm just north of Austin everything seems to be doing well except my root crops. I grow somethings in containers (tomatoes) and they are getting dizzy being dragged in and out of the house everytime it freezes. What kind of seeds are you talking about?

Well, I hope to try a wide variety of flowers, probably based on kinds that others have successfully winter sown. Also thinking about tomatoes and a few other veggies. The plants that you have done, were they wintersown in milk jugs or some other container?

Hi nbgard - took awhile to get a response huh? That happened to me recently too. Don't despair though, I think sometimes so many people are posting that a thread will just get bumped down to the bottom really fast and then noone sees it. Maybe this will help bring it back up to the top for more viewers :).

I am also trying winter sowing for the first time in N Central (Fort Worth) Texas, and I know exactly what you mean about the crazy weather in TX. If I were a seed in TX, I would be very confused and probably end up unintentionally killing myself (LOL :)). I would probably stick my head out on one of those lovely 80 degree days in December only to have it frozen off the next day. Anyways, I'm wondering the same thing so I hope someone (with some experience in this area) will answer your thread.

I'm not as adventurous this first year as you - I'm only winter sowing some blue-eyed grass that is native here and some milkweed and a few other things that really need the winter sowing environment. I'm saving some seed in reserve in case everything ends up dead but I had enough to experiment with the method. I'm using milk and juice jugs.

Good luck. I'll be watching your thread. :)

Thanks for the luck aardvark. I hear you about saving some of the seeds for a secondary method if the ws'ing doesn't work. I'll probably do the same. In fact, if some seeds sprout and a frost comes I'll probably either bring them in or cover them to try to hedge my bet. We'll see if we hear from anyone else.

Nbgard, here is a little about my winter sowing experiences. This is the first year I have tried to over winter tomatoes, peppers and egg plants. They are all in pots and they in my house once again do to this crazy weather. I fall-winter sow wildflowers and poppies that should bloom in the spring. I also have Cab, Caul, broc, radishes, turnips, lettuce,spinach and swiss chard but the root crops aren't doing well. You may want to check out some of the threads on the Texas Forum. There may be some info there that would be helpful.

Thanks lisac. I've been looking at that forum frequently and will continue. I've been learnign more about the winter sowing technique of planting seeds in milk cartons, etc and allowing them to germinate as they would in nature and I haven't really heard of anyone in central or south Texas that has tried that. I'm sure someone has, but if I don't hear about anyone's experience with that technique, I'll probably try it anyway. Folks up north just rave about how easy it is and how hardy the plants are that are sown that way. We'll see!

I usually use the little peat pellets that can then be planted in the ground without disturbing the roots. I have tried the milk cartoons and varies other containers but I haven't had any better luck withh them. I have started seeds in egg shell halves and broke them ever so slightly when putting them in the ground. I have found that the less I disturb the roots the better.

Just wait for January; that's what someone in Home Depot told me. I forgot his name; he's not into computers. He said he starts at the end of December; like a New Year thing.

Yes; some seeds get confused. I try & simulate the cold by sticking ice cubes on top of the soil. Wheeling them around the place by using a hand truck to keep them in the shade (3 evergreen trees there).

I make ice cubes in 8 trays all of the time. HTH!

~* Robin

Nature walk-What plants are you refering to start in Jan? It has been my experience that ,that is too early for most vegies and too late for wildflowers.

Ugh oh! I hope it isn't too late for wildflowers because I am still throwing milk jugs out there and had planned to keep going through the beginning of January. Do you think it is too late for my milkweed and blue-eyed grass that I'm still putting out there? I sure hope I haven't already screwed up my first try at ws. :(

My seed supplier says (regarding their TXOK mix) that for best results plant in fall. I have sown seeds through the middle of Jan. and they seem to do fine. Wildflowers require very little work and should only be lightly raked in or surface sown.

I sure hope they are ok. Well maybe next year I'll get my act together a little earlier and try throwing those puppies out there in October or November. :)

1lisac, these are some of the ones I done, in Up State NY:

# 1: Annual Flowers for Special Uses - Adapted: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/499393/

#2: Herbs for Winter Sowing: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/565267/

~* Robin

Hi nbgard! I've been spending so much time on the New to WSing thread, I didn't see yours! I'm a Texas WSing newbie like you, but I have gleaned a little information that might be helpful to you.

Here is a great link to the WS database where seasoned (and usually successful!) WSers list when their seeds were WSed, when they germinated, when they bloomed and how successful they were. Here is the link http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/ws/

I look for entries by Cordeledawg when I can, as they are in zone 8a, so their results should be close to mine.

As for starting flowers too late, 1lisac has real life experience which I can't match and is perhaps sowing directly into the ground? Or using a cold frame? But what I've been reading on this thread and especially on http://www.wintersown.org/ (kind of the "original WS site, where most folks got their milk jug ideas (I think)) seems to agree that you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) Winter Sow in containers before the Winter Solstice (December 21), and that many zones can get away with sowing on into the Winter. Also, I've been told over and over that veggies in particular should be started later.

As for me, I went through the WS database and have decided to start these seeds in early February:
snap dragon, blood flower, swamp milkweed, canna lily, blanket flower, rose mallow, poppy, marigold and mexican sunflower.

In mid-March:
hibiscus, cosmos, foxglove, other sunflowers, moon flower, morning glory, and zinnia.

In early April:
butterhead lettuce, tomatoes, peppers and eggplant.

I'm planning on waiting until last frost to plant beans.

None of this is gospel, of course, but it's the plan I've put together at least. I hope it helps!

Just collecting and cataloguing seeds and collecting and cleaning milk jugs is keeping me pretty busy right now! Keep me updated on your plans and progress and I'll try to do the same.

-GB

Hi GB,

It sounds like you have had time (or made time) to do some of the research that I hoped to do as well. Thanks for sharing some of what you have found. I will keep my eyes open for cordelledawg's entries. I wonder if there is much difference between 8a and 8b. Would love to hear how it all goes for you!

Tonya

Thanks, Tonya.

My DD has started sleeping in a little bit later so I have had more morning time to waste, I mean, invest searching through DG and reading forums.

I'm a little worried right now that I won't have enough milk jugs when early Feb comes around. I was planning on just shamelessly going through recycling bins if Feb came and I was short, but now our town has a recycling incentive program that weighs each home's recycling and sets up a reward account where you can accumulate points and redeem them for coupons. Totally cool and green, but inconvenient for a burgeoning milk-jug thief. Have you had any luck finding creative places/people to collect them from?

-GB

It's funny you should ask about containers. We too have the recycle bins out front and DH, who works from home, said he would raid the ones in our neighborhood one morning closer to the time I need them and swears he can get all that I will need. He doesn't want to store them until then. I have been keeping things like creamer bottles, etc, that we use. We only drink soy milk so don't have a supply of milk jugs. I am holding DH to his committment! Of course, I probably won't be able to do all of my planting in one week so he has the grace of doing the psuedo dumpster diving two weeks in a row, but I'm not telling him that yet! We don't have a recycling incentive program in NB. someone once said they went to the recycling place and got containers directly from them. You could give that a try, if you needed more.

I guess you could also trade tin cans for milk jugs in your neigbors bins. They probably would get more points!

Tonya

I would thing parents of infants at daycare centers would have an overwhelming supply of milk jugs - just get the word out along with your contact information.

Try posting a sign up on bulletin boards at the local grocery stores with your contact information.

Put the word out at the churches around town and at the beauty shops and barber shops.

Great ideas TRG. By the way, I have seen your snow pics that you've posted on other threads and have been surprised at the difference between your weather and ours. We are near 306 and 35 just down the road from you a bit (I think). I guess you are more in the hill country than we are in NB.

Tonya

Yes, I sow directly in to the ground I don't use a cold frame and don't cover the seeds because the wildflowers would grow naturally and reseed themselves in our pasture with out my help at all. According to my seed supplier poppies should be sown in the fall-winter if you live anywhere South of the Texas pan handle I do start cosmos and zinnas in peat pellets but I don't put them out until there is no longer a chance of frost they are not cold hardy. I usually plant Morning Glorys Sunflower directly in the ground when it gets warmer. One word of caution when you do start plants inside you have to accclimate them slowly to the outside, which is kinda a pain. You can't just stick them outside. AArdvark7 if you sow those milk weed seeds now they should be fine. nbgard you ask what the difference between 8a and 8b is? It cuts across Central Texas at an angle the Hill Country seems to share traits with Zone 8a (gets colder). All the info I have is from my seed supplier or trial and error but all areas may be different.

That's some awesome info, 1lisac. I think I might change when I start my sunflowers now. Thank you!

-GB

OK I told myself I was just going to look at the threads not respond because I have orders to fill. However, this is much more fun. Anyway please let me know how all of you do using the plastic milk or water cartoons. Maybe I was doing something wrong. I do remember that they blew away alot because it can be so blessed windy here. I also use strawberry containers, they work like little greenhouses. I sound like a live at the dump. Back to work I hope
Lisa

Sources for WS "flats":

milk jugs
large yogurt, cottage cheese, sour cream , CoolWhip containers
large margarine containers ( my fave - - Land-o-Lakes )
5 lb. bulk salad containers (think Costco and Sam's Club)
4 & 5 lb. fruit containers ( grapes, strawberries, kiwis . . . again warehouse grocers)

don't throw away those "disposable" roasting pans !!! - some even sold with lids!

2 & 3 liter soda bottles, if clear . . . roadsides loaded with them, unfortunately

one-gallon jugs of filtered, spring, mineral water . . . also distilled water jugs
large plastic vinegar and pickle containers - - rinsed like crazy, of course

. . . . just MT¢W       ;--)

Here is a link for how to prepare different recyclables for Winter Sowing

Wintersown photographer Phred has made several photo groupings showing how to prepare different recyclables for Winter Sowing:

http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Photographer_Phred.html

Making Flats: http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Making_Flats.html

Photo Share: http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Photo_Share.html

the Photo Gallery Portal: http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Photo_Gallery_Portal.html

~* Robin

This message was edited Dec 28, 2008 11:40 PM

Oh boy, I love lists and links! Thanks to Lazlo and NatureWalker for the great resources! Stacey

Since you like links Stacey, try this one. Click on the map above to find out which Region you're in.

Spring Planting Guide for Vegetable Crops http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/earthkind/ekgarden14.html

Also check out the other link: For Fall Dates Click Here: http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/fallgarden/falldirect.html

They may help a little too.

~* Robin

Those are good ones. :) I got my veggie seeds in today (so excited :)) and am tempted to try starting them early. But I'm so 'old school'/'traditional'/'terrified of trying something new and screwing it up and being the laughing stock of all Gardendom and not having any veggies to eat' that I am having a hard time envisioning my tomatoes or eggplants or peppers out there in April. Wintersowing is new to me so maybe if I have success with my blue-eyed grass and milkweeds I'll try something a little more adventurous next year. I'll hang on to the links and maybe by next winter I'll have mustered up enough courage to throw my precious veggies out there to fend for themselves. Yes its embarrassing; I am a big chicken.

Well; Stacey, just try a few seeds of each! Say 5 seeds of a few varieties just to give it a try. You may come away surprised! Look at it as "Pre-testing" or a Launchpad for next year.

~* Robin

Thanks for the encouragement Robin. That is a good suggestion and I have enough seed to try this 'experiment' so I'll give it a shot. I guess it happens in nature without my intervention and coddling so I'll just have to get over myself and try it out. :) I've got some heirloom tomatoes that might be good candidates. Any suggestions on which veggies might be the hardiest or have the best chances of doing a great job with this method? Stacey

Hi Stacey! Here is a list I found at WinterSown.org which I think was the original WSing website.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002053844010986.html

I happened upon the WS forum looking for a way to start my veggies early, but without grow lights since we just don't have room for them. I've been told that tomatoes, peppers and eggplants do great. You can sign up to receive free seeds from WinterSown.org in a one time deal, and when I got mine they included some tomato seeds.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/ws/

Above is a link to the WS database, where WSers list what seeds they have WSed and if they succeeded or not. That might give you a few ideas, too. Oh, and DGer CapeCodGardener wrote that WSed veggies start out smaller than veggies started under grow lights, but his always caught up by harvest time. I hope that helps!

-GB

Oh boy! More good links! Thanks GreenerBeaner! I am about to head out of town but when I get where I'm going, I'll be back on DG to check out those links and get started on my plan of action with WS the veggies experiment. Hee hee hee - I love experiments. :) I have a cell/molecular biology background with some exp. at USDA Plant Stress and Germplasm and some academic background in plant bio, so experiments are naturally a blast for me. I would bore yall with data charts and graphs of my little WS vs. 'old school veggie gardening' experiment, but I wonder if anyone would be interested. Maybe I'll post the data later just in case anyone is interested in the results. I like hard data so maybe someone else will too. Anyways, it will be fun for me. :) Stacey

does anyone know what happened to "distantkin" ??? Rob seems to have fallen off the Earth

OK Perfect example of why this question was asked. Went outside two days ago in the 80F weather to find a couple of containers of my milkweed sprouting. They will be dead today for sure when the lovely coldfront hits. I can't help but wonder if ws isn't much more reliable method up North where the ground actually freezes and they don't have regular cycles of 70-80F weather for a few days followed by 30F weather for several days. I did everything the way DGers and the forum have suggested. Is this happening to others or just me? Stacey

aardvark7,

It could be that a cold frame or hot bed works best down here. If a freeze threatens, a light bulb or two can be placed inside a cold frame to protect the small tender plants. Growing up in Houston and later moving to the Hill Country, I've see many cold frames out on the South sides of structures out in the country where there were country gardens and farms.

A little info.

http://www.gardengatemagazine.com/main/pdf/coldfram.pdf

http://www.savvygardener.com/Features/cold_frames-hotbeds.html

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/581839/

I have also read on a thread that one person who has had early sprouts simply covers the containers with a sheet during the freeze and has not lost any sprouts. It would certainly be a quick way to try to protect them tonight.

AArdvark-What kind of milk weed are you trying. Butterfly Weed? I have tried covering the jugs with sheets and everything still died. I'm having some recall now on why I couldn't figure out what the advantage was to using this method. I do have bluebonnets and poppies that were direct sown and are doing fine. Maybe it does have something to do with the huge temp. variations we have. I just know (I know I'm repeating myself) that I direct sow wildflowers, Hollyhocks, sweet peas and poppies no later then Jan. 15 and sow zinnas, cosmos, sunflowers, morning glories,and other tenders after the chance of any frost has past (April). Some times I will start them inside but I don't put them out until April. I also have a Biology background so I would love to see your charts. You can dmail me if you like.

Aardvark - milkweed is the hardiest plant I've ever seen. It self sows easily in my garden and we get frosts. I do know it doesn't like to be transplanted, so just spreading the seeds on the garden area might give you a crop. If you need more seeds, let me know and I'll send you lots. (and anyone else, too!) I had 3 monarch chrysalis hatch since new year's - so the BF's are hardy, too. I see them flying on warmer days, and my milkweed blooms all winter. These are SOME tough plants - and since they are native to all of Texas, they can take what our weather dishes out - that's my theory.

I'm wintersowing quite a few hardy perennials - it's my first try, too. Hoping for echinacea, black-eyed susans, cleome, and some native prairie wildflower seeds I collected in November.

Bookworm,
I am going to try wintersowing for the first time and I am worried about how things will do in this Houston weather. I haven't started yet as I was thinking it might be better to wait until the end of February. What are your plans? I would love to hear how your plants are progressing.
Bonnie