Successful container gardening

Gardadore and Boca Bob: Ok, so then if I buy the bio dome without the mat and thermostat, I could get the thermostat from co-op then. I noticed that this place also sells bat guano what is that?

This gypsom you are using instead of the lime, does it dissolve quickly and does it paste up like lime does? If not; does it supply enough magnesium and calcium to be used instead of lime in the EBs? Just a thought.

joy112854

My goodness. There are so many questions and observations in this thread I find it difficult to keep up with all of it, mostly due to the fact that I check in and find a multitude of queries, observations, and more questions (sometimes with many "asides" that take us down yet another road).

Again, I'm no expert. (I really don't believe in "experts".) Keeping that in mind I hope to point out that there are certain givens that come into play when it comes to gardening, whether it be that of a newbie or a professional, be it in-ground "yardening" (backyard garden) or acres of field growing, or potted containers (EB's, planter boxes, etc) or hydroponics (root mediums supplied with liquid fertilizers, etc).

If it is of any help (for now), taking the most recent post from Joy:

"This gypsom you are using instead of the lime, does it dissolve quickly and does it paste up like lime does? If not; does it supply enough magnesium and calcium to be used instead of lime in the EB"

Gypsum is readily soluble and available to plants. It, like lime, will not "paste up" unless you have just dumped it in a pile and added water. It, like lime,should be mixed into your medium so it is evenly dispersed. Regarding magnesium, no. Gypsum does not offer magnesium but this is easily (and cheaply!) taken care of by the addition of Epsom's Salts (magnesium sulfate).

Joy, back to EB's, if you are using a sterile potting mix from a bag, you just need to add dolomitic lime (for calcium and magnesium). If you are choosing to use coir I'd recommend using gypsum and Epsom's salts; those two will give you calcium (from the gypsum) and magnesium )from the Epsom's. Note: if you use dolomitic lime with coir you will change the pH of your growing medium possibly moving it into a range that is not in the best health for your plants.

Very quickly (cus I'm about to go spend time with my 15 yr old DD, who just came home from a great Thanksgiving trip!)... (Dont'cha just love our kids!)...

BocaBob is correct in that the sponges mentioned above (and many other mediums) contain no nutrients whatsoever. This includes perlite, commercially bagged soiless mixes (with the exception of those that brag "osmocote" or "time released" ferts), *coir, vermiculite, peat moss, pine bark. (And maybe I've forgotten to list a few others?)

A "medium" is simply something that anchors a plant, giving its roots a place to grow. Bagged, or "store-bought", mediums often don't contain any nutrition; that is up to you to offer your plants in whatever form you choose to use.

One of my favorite idioms is "A seed is a plant, in a box, with its own lunch!" I have no idea where I heard that or whether I made it up years ago (but I think it would make a great bumper sticker!)

But the point is that once a "body" is germinated it will need feeding after it eats its lunch. (Consider this, our children survived just fine in their mother's womb; once they were born we had to start feeding them in a different manner. The same is true with seeds; once they have germinated and started growth we have to feed them. We can't just bring them into our World and expect them to survive. They won't continue to grow in a simple medium/womb, they rely on us to offer food.)

Keeping that in mind it is best to understand that we need to feed these plants. Do not rely on the medium to do it for you. This is the role you play in raising your garden and it will be best to understand that simply choosing a medium to grow it in is not the only factor in your success.

Sorry to get long-winded. Given time I'll try to get back to other questions asked above. And get this, from where I'm sittin', ya'll are a breath of fresh air! I think you are all on the right track and looking to be fantastic growers of your own food and flowers. I have a whole lot of confidence in you. You sure are a great bunch of folks to hang out with!

Best,
Shoe

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait till you continue and get as long winded as possible!!

BocaBob

Shoe: Yes, come on back and get as winded as you like, we need it here. Thanks so much too.
joy112854

Bob have you read the article?
If so what did you think?

christmas- I read the article. I'm a layman at this fancy stuff. Not quite sure what it means. Shoe has more to say about it soon. I called the manufactuor of the fertilizer, who also sells coconut coir to greenhouse growers, and he said nobody has brought to his attention a problem with calcium. Liked the 16% increase in production.

BocaBob

Bob: I am not as knowledgeable about all this gardening stuff as everyone else here; but, here is my two cents worth. I decided to go with EBs because with the mulch cover I don't have to worry about weeding, with the self watering reservoir, I don't have to worry about overwatering or underwatering, with the set up of fertilizer and dolomite lime the plants get the calcium and magnesium they need. With the grow bags, you use coconut coir, granted coconut coir is just the medium that holds the plant, just as potting mix is the medium that holds the plant. I notice that you use a certain type of fertilizer for the grow bags and you use epsom salts in your automatic watering system for the grow bags.

Now, the EBs get calcium and magnesium that is needed for peppers and tomatoes using dolomite lime, the other nutrients and minerals are from the fertilizer. The grow bags get calcium needed from the special fertilizer you use and the magnesium is supplied to the grow bag via the automatic watering system via the epsom salts. Epsom salts adds magnesium and nothing else, the reason your fertilizer has calcium already in it.

So; I think I'm safe in assuming that either system has a certain set-up of additives that need to be added, coconut coir, potting mix and anything else used as a growing medium does not have the exact ingredients, minerals and nutrients in it without adding something else correct?

So; here is my conclusion, I prefer to use the EBs, as they are trouble free for myself, being a beginner. I didn't mind having the grow bags in south Florida because of the soil diseases, (nematoids), and Mike, of course is a great gardener, not a beginner like myself; so, therefore, he shouldn't have any problems with them, I on the otherhand would, without the adding of the self watering system and the adding of epsom salts to the watering process, sounds like a lot of trouble to me.

I also thought about your suggestion of using coconut coir in the bio domes; but, even though cheaper, it is more convenient for me to use the coconut coir pellets already in form at the moment.

I am interested in hearing more about gypsom and epsom salts though. Can, eventually the gypsom and epsom salts be used in place of the dolomite lime in the EBs? I think Shoe could probably answer this best for me?

I have plenty of time before March gets here to make my decision as to if I go with the bio dome and bio sponges or the coconut coir cells and pellets. My main decision will be based on whether or not one holds water better than the other and if one is easier to use than the other.

Here is something else: Can you not just place the startlings from the bio dome or other dome directly into the EB? Or do you have to put them in pots first? I noticed that you don't seem to plant them directly into the grow bags, EBs or other containers; but replant them into other pots first? Why is that?
joy112854

To answer your last question, I do it both ways. Some plants go right from the Bio Dome into EB's or grow bags, i.e lettuce. I like to put tomatoes from the Bio dome into 5inch containers to get more root growth before final planting. It makes for stronger plants I've learned.

Just remember Joy that almost any soilless medium used in container gardening has no nutrients in them. By whatever means i.e water soluble or granular fertilizer, you have to add everything necessary for healthy growth and fruit production. They must be fed just like us.

EB's (Earthboxes) are wonderful and work great. For as much as I grow, I can't afford to have all EB's, that is why I have gone to grow bags. More bang for the buck.

Bottom line....................Have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

BocaBob

A quick check-in (between bites of leftover smoked turkey breast and collard greens, both cooked to perfection!).

"Can, eventually the gypsom and epsom salts be used in place of the dolomite lime in the EBs?"

Joy, if you are going to use EB's and one of their recommended bagged soil mixes then you'd be better off using dolomitic lime. It will offer the magnesium and calcium you need, will be doing so by adding just the one addition, and you'll most likely come out cheaper in the long run. (No sense buying two separate ingredients when one will do just fine.)

Remember though, you can still use EB's with the coir as well. You'll still benefit from the ease of watering (no overwatering/underwatering that you mentioned was a plus for you). The only change you'd need to make would be to use gypsum instead of dolomitic lime. (You'll still need to follow all the rest of the EB folk's instructions and use their suggestion of granular fertilizer, their layout of plants, their plastic cover, etc.) Fortunately Tplant has an experiment in progress using coir in EB's so he'll be letting us know how things progress as his garden grows.

And as BocaBob said, "Have fun!"

Shoe

Shoe: Yes, I get to be the lucky one and let everyone else experiment and learn from their mistakes or reap benefit of their successes, as I can't plant now right? I'm just starting to look around my house and it's starting to look like Lowe's Garden center in here. I've already picked up two 3 cu ft bags of Jungle Growth Potting Mix for Professional Growers for containers, 6 bags of Gardener's Supply self watering container mixes, one 50 lb bag of 15-15-15 fertilizer, not to mention all the non bulky stuff and the stuff I haven't even put together yet. Come March, I won't need to purchase anything if this keeps up. LOL

I daydream about planting and then dream at night about gardening. Then run out and check my daffodils which are dazed and confused right now with this weird weather. I bought about 80 bulbs, 40 from easy to grow and 40 from Brecks. I planted them as the directions called for and they were supposed to go dormant as we were starting to get cold weather, now we've had this whole month of hot/cold/hot/cold, so 28 of the 80 have sprouted already and taken off. I hope the cold weather won't kill them when it decides to stay cold. If not, I'm in for one fun Spring/Summer.

Next winter, I plan to be in south Florida, where I will get help and can learn from Mike, TPlant and Bob first hand some things about gardening, for now and through the Spring though, it's read, read, read. LOL
joy112854

Joy,
I agree with your decision to go with the EB's. I find them really practical and plants grow so well in them. I plan to try the coir this spring along with my Pro-Mix to compare. Since I have never used the Dolomite Lime even with the regular potting mix it will be easy to change over. I have always used gypsum and epsom salts. You don't need much Epsom Salts anyway and it's very cheap. You can even get it at the local pharmacy. Gardening IS fun or we wouldn't all be so addicted! You certainly do have a wonderful arsenal of supplies ready to go! Also your daffodils should be fine. If you are concerned just mulch a little more. Here in PA mine are also pushing up through the soil because of the constant temperature shifts but they always survive the harsh winter! So keep dreaming of your garden. It will bring you great pleasure.
Thanks, Shoe, for all your helpful info. At least I feel I have been doing the right thing for the last few years with the gypsum and Epsom salts! Now looking forward to hearing how T-Plants' experiment with the Coir works out in the E-Boxes. It sounds like it will be very positive.

Gardadore: One question if I might? How do you use the epsom salt, in the EB itself or in the watering system somehow? I know, questions, questions, questions right? LOL I will probably test some different things too, once I get used to the way the directions are for the EB itself, gotta get comfortable with them before I do that though and comfortable that I'm getting better gardner skills also, that might take a while. LOL
joy112854

Joy,

Here is an article I enjoyed and thought you would enjoy as well:

http://www.plantea.com/pH.htm

My soil is extremely alkaline and, therefore, I am always looking for ways to make it more acid. By making it more acid, the iron, manganese, and phosphorus in the soil become more available to the plants, i.e. they are unlocked so to speak.

When I dirt gardened, I added chelated sulfur to acidify the soil and sprayed the foliage with liquid iron and also liquid fertilizer.

Texas Rockgarden:
Thanks, I started something here, where, if I think something can be used over and over again in gardening I print it out. I did this, as I know I will want to refer back to it again and again. So; you could help me a lot by posting links helpful links like this where I can print them out and then punch holes in the side and put them in my gardening book of tips I'm making for myself. It would be much appreciated and then I'd have something to look at when I have questions as I know some of this stuff is handy to have easy access to, and since I forget where links are posted, I can keep up with stuff better this way.
joy112854

Texasrockgarden,
Enjoyed that article as well!

Joy,
I don't use a watering system, just fill the EB's regularly with water as needed. I add a tbs. of Epsom Salts around each plant for my tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants at transplant time. When blooms appear I mix 2 tbs. in a gallon of water and add a pint (2 cups) to each plant. When they begin to set fruit I mix 1 tbs. Epsom salts and 1tbs dishwashing soap per gallon of water and foliar spray. Some people just use the last mixture and foliar spray at transplant, flowering and setting times. Since the magnesium in the Epsom Salts completes with calcium and potassium some people maintain that the plant can use the magnesium better through foliar spraying rather than taking it in through the roots. I really don't know if that is valid. I just know my plants like the Epsom and I believe, but can't prove, that I get better crop production. I've never really done a true test. You might find this article interesting. I pretty much follow what she says: http://vegetablegardens.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_miracle_mineral

Gardagore: Thanks, I have always added the epsom to the soil, hmm, now I will try your way. I just got back from Southern Florida a few hours ago, still haven't unpacked, got the seedlings there ok.
joy112854

That information re: Epsom Salt was really interesting...going out tomorrow and spray my plants!!!!