Thunk or not to Thunk

Hello
Sorry for all these questions that probably are old hat to all of you

the seed pods
Is it correct to assume that if they come easily off the vine - that they are 'done?' (Some are browner than others) (Some resist the pulling and some do not)

Is it correct to assume that if the pod 'snaps' and splits when it is squeezed, it is dry enough and 'done?'

If the seed is brown but it is somewhat soft as compared to others in the same pod --will it dry out properly or is that the end of it - not viable?

I have a small glass jar that I am storing the seed in --some seeds hit the bottom with a dull 'thunk' and others sound like a tiny stone when they hit. Is this a good way to tell if the seed has matured to its final state? I am very reluctant to mix the seeds --afraid that the 'thunkers' have moisture in them and will rot others that sound like tiny stones as they hit bottom.

Last: What is the reason some seeds are white/cream in the same pod as those that are brown? I am assuming the white never went brown.... in these pods ... brown or white..they are 'thunkers.'

OK not last....still another question: About the Vine
if it is 100 percent clear that the vine is dead.... dry and dead... is it a certainty that the pod will not mature any further?

Thank you so much for helping with this.

opps - one other question

should the seeds be stored with a dessicant? Like what we might find in a pill jar?

How should they be stored for another season?
Tissue wrap? Cotton ball, naked? Plastic or glass?

Dorothy - I don't discount any seeds as viable or not. I have had seeds sprout that weren't completely dried during the ripening stage because I picked them a day or two early. As long as they are just a day or two from being ripe, I think they will be fine. Most will dry out after being picked, but I don't recommend this unless there is a freeze coming or some other threat to the vines.

Some seed pods snap and pop to drop their seeds. Others seem to hold on. But if the pods are brown and crispy to touch, they should be ripe. Light colored seeds could very well be immature seeds or if hard they could very well be a cross with a cultivar that produces light color seed coats. If they are soft to touch, I would say they are not completely dry yet.

If your vine seems completely dried and dead, I would still leave the seed pods on them for possibly further ripening or pull the vine up from the roots and stick the roots in water. I have vines right now that look completely dead. But the seed pods are continuing to ripen. So I am leaving them because I don't have a fear of a freeze here yet.

I have been using regular uncooked white rice to act as a drying agent for any seeds I have. I put all seeds in paper envelopes with a teaspoon of rice for another month before storing. I just happen to store my seeds long term in smaller 3" X 5" ziploc baggies after I am sure they are completely dry because they can and will mildew. I collect and store them by cultivar. I keep my seeds separated for trading purposes. If you are growing more than one cultivar of MG, I highly recommend that you keep the seeds separate and label what they are. Most folks prefer trading for named cultivars instead of a mixed bag of seeds.

I hope this all helps! Good luck!

This message was edited Nov 22, 2008 2:03 PM

Yes, thanks Becky
I know to keep the seeds separate - I am much too much of a control freak to mix things up in the seed stage ( I will mix them in a pot however!!) I just want to know what I am planting at the get go.. --the shenanigans after that I am willing to toss to the influences of fate,wind, and the insects.

I should have thought about the rice - we did that in Fla to sugar in the shaker. I was just concerned that storing the seeds with the dessicant would dry them out beyond what they could tolerate.

I am going to collect the seeds from the MGs that got hit with that unplanned unheralded freeze. I was babying the YLK and so -- no freeze for it and for Morning Storm. It is Morning Storm the has crispy pods and still soft pods and the soft, seemingly moist seeds of all colors.

My grief is for the grey MG (Grey Fog?) (I don't have my list here) which I think is the most beautiful. The petal form as well as the color. I am going to pick those pods and try the seeds next spring..freeze or not. I can't help but believe (high hopes/wishful thinking) that maybe some survived...after all -- the pod is a sort of little house with air space ...so maybe it is OK --if the seeds were on the way to drying..maybe the moisture content in the seeds wasn't too high to be impacted by a freeze. We will see, it will be an adventure!!!!

Sincerely ... if you need more seeds of anything that I have ... just say the word. I have seeds to share of many cultivars as well as crosses. And I have plenty of Gray Fog seeds left. Did you get the original seeds from me or someone else? My Gray Fog does not have the white edging on the petals. Though someone sent me a few seeds for that one and I will definitely be growing it out next year, too! :-)

I did get them from you - I posted a photo on the site that you asked me to. They were beautiful (in my opinion --I know that tastes vary --the flowers were very delicate and very old fashioned and a pale pale lavender grey.) I will try to sprout the few I have saved in the spring and if no growth - I will D-mail you. BlueSpiral sent me some other variety MG seeds and I (thank goodness) decided to save them for spring because it was so late in the season when I actually found the MG forum.

Meanwhile as soon as the LYK are ready, I will send. I have two pods and I have protected both very well. The others outside -- are still green and are very very cold. I broke a Grey Fog open today (sort of going brown) and the seeds were ice cold and very soft --so they must be going mush. But you know what ? They are HUGE - like the MF you sent that didn't sprout. I wonder if the moisture inside with the freeze caused them to expand...but the pods are very large too --and it seems like a good fit - the seed size to the pods. They look like little apple quarters.

Dorothy - I share seeds with sooo many folks, I can't keep track of what I sent to whom. LOL!

I have plenty of seeds from my Gray Fog vine that I grew in Fall 2007. So if ya need more, I have lots! :-)

The seeds and pods will be larger when they are not yet ripe. They shrink with maturity and usually harden and darken (if seed coats are dark color) when ripe. You may be right that the freeze has damaged them, but I would leave them to make sure. If they are gone, then there is always more seeds I can share with you. And you'll get some beautiful vines in Spring/Summer 2009 so ... not to worry! :-)

There are a lot of folks who have such a short warm growing season here on the forum and it is often difficult for them to get ripe seeds from their vines because they have such a short season. The great thing about growing them here, I usually get lots of seeds from the vines I grow in Spring and Summer. My Fall grow-outs are not as generous with seeds, either! :-)

Some very kind and generous folks here have shared some great cultivars with me! So I just pass it forward with the seeds I get from those vines! :-) I know how frustrating it can be when the vines are close to producing ripe seeds and then the cold weather hits them and it's over. Very discouraging indeed ...

I wish I could grow more in my yard. I had plans to add several more vine beds in my backyard in the Spring. But with the economy right now ... that may not be financially possible for me. So I will grow as many as I can with the beds I currently have designated for them. :-) I usually grow out about 25 at a time and can get at least 2 grow-outs per year. Sometimes 3 if the weather stays warm longer. But this year it got much colder sooner... :-( My Spring grow-out was very successful. I am still waiting to see what the seed production is on the late summer/fall grow-out. I can definitely say that there is not nearly as many seeds from this current grow-out.

This message was edited Nov 22, 2008 4:23 PM

Dorothy - Becky provided you with some excellent answers...


Becky - Thanks (!)


TTY,...


Ron

Ron -
Yes, she sure did --and also so much of what I was asking was included in previous links that Becky sent me to - posted by her, or you or karen,etc. I read everything but I think I am on overload - trying to 'store' it all and forgetting most. For me, the learning comes with the 'doing' as compared with the 'reading.' I am grateful for all the help everyone has given me and the seeds too. As soon as I get this down and my vines turn into little factories, I will be sharing the seeds and trying to pay back the kindnesses extended to me.

Dorothy - I, too, was on overload the first year I grew MGs. But the more I have grown them and come to really admire & love them, the more what I learn sticks in my brain. Does that make sense? I, too, am a hands-on learner. I'm a visual, let me try-it-myself person. Reading goes in my brain, but doesn't register until I have done the experiment or have had the experience with the knowledge to fully understand it!