Seed Pod Question

Becky sent some seeds. (Figured I'd make it a post instead of bothering you with a DMail Becky and thought others new to MG may learn too.) Anyway, the flowers are gone and the pods remain. I have these HUGE (as big as cranberries) apple green pods on a vine that did not have flowers --- Is that possible???? Could this be the moonflower vine that did not bloom? I got up at all hours and that vine did not have flowers. It was on the deck so no critters (at least deer) could have gotten to them.

Also, my main question is - now that the pods are here...and they look pretty 'fresh' -- how do I know when to harvest? Some (just a very few) are beginning to lose their fresh look.... I am afraid it will all happen in a flash and I will miss opportunity to gather. If I bag them....is there a 'too soon' for the bag. I don't want to cause the pods not to mature as they should.

I only have two pods on the LYK and I don't want to mess it up since I promised Becky to send her some seeds.

Thanks for the help (as always)
Dorothy

Dorothy - The pods need to turn completely brown/tan (no green at all). You won't miss the window of opportunity as long as they don't freeze! So you need not worry ...

Here is a photo of a mature seed pod. In the photo you can see 2 mature (tan) seed pods and one green one. I hope that helps. They should look like the brown ones with the calyx/sepals (small leaves under the flower/seed pods) are also brown. If the seed pods are still green, they may be too immature to collect.

This message was edited Nov 15, 2008 10:27 AM

great photos- thanks B.

Now what do you think about the moonflower --- is it possible to have the pods WITHOUT ever seeing the flowers?

My big pods do look like yours - the smalle ones are sort of hairy.

The Moonflowers very well could have seed pods and you just missed seeing the blooms. I have seed pods on the vine against the privacy fence and I never saw any blooms. So I know that they DID bloom, but I missed them! :-) The pods on the Moonflower vines are larger seed pods. And the seeds are quite large too compared to the usual MG seeds. The seeds for MF should be tan or whitish color with an occassional brown one. :-)

Dorothy - The seeds form after the ovules are fertilized by the pollen released from the anthers,transferred to the stigma...the sperm traverses down the pollen tube and unites with the ovules to form seeds...the seeds cannot form without the fertilization taking place via the aforementioned flower parts ...

Why you didn't see the flowers is a 'mystery', but flowers must have formed otherwise there could be no seeds...


Ron

I will defer to your collected experiences --but -- that large pot... that I planted the MF vine in...grew a vine. It sits on my deck about 5 feet from the back door. Situated up and away from critters (except squirrels) -- I was out there in the wee hours of the morning (checking the MG vines) sometimes before sunrise (not pitch dark but faint light) and again at 5/6 pm and sometimes a rare afternoon check. I never saw one bloom or a spent bloom of any flower on that vine and yet there is a lot of those huge pods --not as big as gumballs but a cranberry or large blueberry size. I wondered at first if I was seeing a MF's getting ready to bloom and maybe stalled or stopped dead because of the cold. Maybe just too late in the year for them to progress. The photos Becky posted do look similar and so I figured 'ok, not flowers --these are pods' --but as you said (Ron) got to have the flower and the pollen etc etc. to make the seed.. so, I decided to post to ask. Some of the MG did creep over and get tangled in that vine... maybe I will go out and trace to see if what I am seeing is a vine from the MG mixed up in there. All the MG bloomed and I kept the pots separate once I discovered that they had a habit of wandering (It was like Match.com on my back porch) If yes, and this is a MG vine --- it sure is different from the others --- because the other pods are either hairy and smaller (much smaller) or that same smooth apple green and no furry look but much also much smaller. It will be interesting next year to see what comes up. Thank you both for your help. This is such fun --
It is going to be 29 degrees ... Becky said the freeze could stop the pods from maturing - so I am going to drag them all in this week.

Dorothy - If you can post clear photos of the seedpods...especially undamaged ones that might still have the stem attached...I can probably identify the different species for you via the pods...

Ipomoea purpurea has seedpods that reflex (bend towards the ground)
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/132998/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/31407/

Ipomoea hederacea seedpods
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/125103/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/127299/

and

Ipomoea nil seedpods
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/113380/

remain erect

Try to keep pods that look very similar segregated from pods that are otherwise 'different' looking...

TTY,...

Ron


This message was edited Nov 16, 2008 12:38 AM

Dorothy - Moonflowers bloom only at night! Not during the day. The blooms will have already closed up by morning unless you get lucky and the conditions are right for them to be in bloom still after sunrise.

Here is a seed pod (not ripe yet) on my Moonflower. They will get crispy dark brown when ripe. I don't have any ripe ones yet on my vines.

The pods are larger than any typical MG seed pods. They might be the largest seeds and pods of all the morning glories. Not sure. Ron would know that answer probably.

Here it is

The pods I posted at the top of this thread were I. nil seed pods, not Moonflower (I. alba) seed pods. The photo I just posted today is an actual Moonflower seed pod. It looks like you probably have some sort of I. nil vine growing in that pot. Did I send you Moonflower seeds? I don't remember. And if that is the case, the flowers should've bloomed in the morning. Can you get a closer shot of the seed pod?

This message was edited Nov 16, 2008 11:35 AM

Hi -
Yes you did send me a moonflower vine.

So you think it is not a moonflower? Becky can you blow up the photo and look at the pod on the lower left.

Dorothy - The pods I see on the lower left are green and they definitely look like I. nil immature seed pods. Definitely not MF seed pods such as the one I posted a few posts up. I have no idea what cultivar it is that is producing your seed pods. You'll just have a to grow one of the seeds to find out! :-)

My luck growing Moonflower vines is hit and miss. If the conditions aren't right, they won't even sprout. Which I've had happen to me numerous times. Did you plant all the seeds or just one or two? If you still have seeds left, plant them in the late Spring. Mine really like fertile soil.

no I planted them all ---so I guess they didn't sprout


I will get some for next year and try again --- I will separate these pods out and next year will be an adventure!!

Dorothy - The vine you posted here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5797432
shows 9 Ipomoea nil seedpods...

TTY,...

Ron

Yes I can see that (now) -
and nothing like the MF that Becky posted.
So I planted the MF in two separate pots and areas and both areas did not sprout. Well, I guess I am not 100 percent disappointed --as I would be if I thought that I had blooms and just missed them.


Thanks to you both for your excellent photo illustrations, links, and explanations. Now that I have the photos (and my few vines --- I can see the difference.

Dorothy - Hopefully, I will get plenty of seeds from my Moonflower vines. I'll share some more with you if you want to try them again. Plant them in the late Spring and maybe that will give them time to sprout and grow and bloom for you! :-)

Thank you Becky
I was concerned about getting such a late start on all of the seeds you sent. Karen sent some also and she said I could save for the spring (not MF but the MG) - I will accept your offer.

Also, when I get the two pods off of the LYK I will send you one as promised.

Dorothy - Please remind me at the end of this month to send you some MF seeds. I know I will forget. Or dmail me. I have a special folder for dmail of seeds I promised to send others. :-) It's how I keep track of what I am to send to who! LOL!

Thank you for the LYK seeds! I genuinely appreciate it! :-)

On the last pic of Dorothy we can see green pods on a vine without leaf.

For me the seeds never will come mature , what do you think of that ?
Brown pods : hope - green one ???

dany - The 2 seedpods in your photo that look brown should yield ripened seeds...allow the green pod to remain on the vine and to draw nourishment from the vine as long as possible...the seedpod may then continue to develop and produce ripe seeds...

Good Luck

Ron

Dany
What do you mean?
Since my vines don't have leaves ----just green pods... are you saying that green pods won't mature without a vine with leaves??

I yanked them inside tonight -- trying to protect from freezing. Is this all for naught?

Dorothy - Did you bring the entire vine inside or just remove the seedpods (?)...the seedpods have a better chance of ripening properly if you brought the entire vine indoors where it can still get some sunlight...until they turn brown like the 2 in the photo posted by Dany...

The green pods may or may not yield viable seeds...you could also try placing a length off stem in some water in a sunny window,the pods will draw on the water and nutrients in the stem and the sunlight will help to maintain life supporting metabolism that will hopefully continue until the seeds are fully ripe...


TTY,...


Ron


This message was edited Nov 18, 2008 2:29 AM

Ron -
I took the entire vine inside - I figured I'd put back out when temps increase in a few days. I only did this with two since I couldn't carry the others - the LYK and morning storm.

The others all have bright green pods on vines ---but the vines have no leaves. To tell you the truth...the ones I took in...the vines are sort of stiff and brown and I am not sure if the pods will be ok.

I started the MG vines very late in our season. Becky sent the seeds to me. But, I am learning so much so even if I lose I can always start again. I just had hopes for the LYK because Becky wanted the seeds.

Dorothy - Please don't sweat it with the seeds. If you get seeds ... fine. If not ... that is fine too!

I know (smile)
I am just on a mission to keep those seeds viable!!

You go girl!!!! If there is a will, there is a way ... :-)

Dorothy - Be sure to snip off / remove any leaves and stem sections that are definitely dead because they serve no beneficial purpose once they are dead and just act as water wicks to draw life sustaining moisture out of the still living parts of the plant ..

TTY,...

Ron

I took off the leaves last week (dried and brown) but the vine on the LYK was at best very fragile two skinny vines emerging from the pot. The last to sprout of all the MGs and the most frail. It is brown.. but the only connection between the pods and the soil. The pods (inside now) are turning brown. So I will keep my fingers crossed. Thanks again!!