I've acquired a mixture of gray seeds from a sase and they were sowed around last week of September. They are finicky growers and have smaller leaves compared to my other mgs. Two out of 8 of them had juvenile leaves that were deformed like the one below. I don't know if it's just my pot or what not, but any of you guys experiencing similar growths on your grays?
Eliz
Mgs I've sowed about 2 weeks ago are actually bigger than these grays...
I agree wholeheartedly with Joseph!
I grew Gray Fog last year and it was a show-stopper! :-)
http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/t/beckygardener/7251/
Joseph your grey flower is Gray Haze
There is another named Gray Morning Mist
My grey vine I don't know exactly the name, here is a pic
Eliz, I actually had a volunteer this year from a gray...Like Joseph said, it is a lovely flower well worth growing.
luvs, I never thought I'd see Ipomoea nil volunteering over the winter here, but we certainly did, and it looked exactly like yours. The vine was extremely robust, huge and prolific and made a glorious cascade over its section of the hedge (did not get a picture of that overall effect). It did not ripen seeds outdoors, but am trying to ripen some in jars of water indoors, with a dash of hydrogen peroxide (H202) against formation of slime.
I wonder it this vine could have something unusual about it that enables its seeds to be cold-hardy in zone 7? Are we all sure it's purely I. nil, and not I. youjiro?
Will be a while before I can get back here -
ps - It also had smaller flowers typical of the grays I grew, especially Gray Morning Mist, and there was more smokey lavender in the gray - just loved it. The center lobe was not as elongated and narrow as many of the other I. nil MGs I grew, but wider and more blunt.
Becky, are you getting any volunteers like this one where you are? Anyone else?
Here is something interesting from the Japanese Gene Research I don't know if seeds can go out of the laboratory in the hands of growers to make a new line of broken colour MG .
Joseph do you know how it work when the Japanese university make seeds distribution , everyone can get them or you must be a student who need material for a " thesis " ?
Dany, I wish I could give you an answer. Let me know when you learn how to obtain JMG lines for experiments. I have heard from somewhere or maybe I was just dreaming that you had to be affiliated with an institution where you are conducting plant research to be able to get the Kyushu U. seeds. Maybe I am full of dried plums on that one. LOL
I have noticed that many of my smaller blooming I. nils do produce volunteers and can be very quick and thick growing. I, too, wondered about the genes of those vines. It is only with the smaller blooming I. nils that I am seeing this happen. Mind you ... I don't get freezing winters here very often. But seeds for the large flowering I. nils just aren't producing volunteers. I am trying to think if I have seen any ... I can't think of a one. But I could give you a list of the smaller blooming I. nil vines ... Gray Fog, Blue Asago Willow, Mutant Blue Needle Leaf Nanding, LYK, Yaguruma Blizzard, Morning Storm, etc.
Eliz, I don't think I can be much help to you, since my gray seedlings for 2007 & 2008 all turned out to be wonderful surprises other than the particular cultivars I thought they might be. The only unusual thing about the emargined gray was its unusual health and vigor - all the way from early first leaves to the full-grown vines later on.
Very intriguing comments, Joseph and Becky - thank you for adding those other cultivars to our list of self-seeding nils. I think that fostering I. nil seedlings that might be thought likely to produce volunteers over the winter - especially in colder zones - could be another technique in our arsenal for preserving the cultivars and seedlings we'd most like to keep going.
Dany, the MG you pictured here - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5755160 - is mesmerizing.
Joseph - ya think fermented plums might do a better job of augmenting one's powers of persuasion with respect to asking Kyushu U to share seeds?. I would imagine that KU would want to be assured that any recipient of its seeds could be relied upon to successfully grow those seeds out and harvest lots of seeds to send back...not to mention possible control of pollination to keep them true to the parent. This is a wonderful wish, Dany.
i don't see why we couldn't get together and ask KU as a group of enthusiasts... after all they got their original seeds from enthusiasts after the war... what are they going to do?... say no!
Colin you go in the good direction , old seeds for us it's OK. ( but out off the freezer )
We must say howmany people we are to get the Jackpot ( 10 seeds it's not enough ). Personaly I don't need Frankenstein type like Dragon etc...
I'm sure they have a lot of seeds and they are waitting our mail .
Someone know an address , it's important to have the good address because we can make only one shot.
volunteer!!!
What does it mean in gardening , the dictionary say volunteer in army - §!2/)Ö++" ???
perhaps it mean that the plant " regrow " or the plant take on a new lease of life
Dany
The blooms of 'wild' nil are not exceptionally large,so a reversion to an older gene may coincide with a certain degree of cold hardiness...
Kyushu ala Dr.Nitisaka distributes seeds each Spring in their annual seed distribution...a certain amount of the seeds are to be devoted to maintaining the seed line pure,but crossings are allowed...
So far,Dr.E.Nitisaka has been reluctant to be dependable in his response to other than Japanese speaking people...simple requests for the seed lines that are listed as being available are not difficult to decipher,especially for someone sporting a phd.,...but alas the poor 'Dr.' cannot seem to lower himself enough to cooperate with 'regular' people despite the fact that his mission statement and funding sources mandate that he cooperate Internationally...but as official 'keeper of the seedstock' he has historically displayed the typical 'stuck up bureaucrat syndrome'...
There is a request form located 'somewhere' on the Kyushu site...it specifically mentions that the number of requests should be kept to a minimum...I wish you all luck in receiving the common courtesy of a response...
TTY,...
Ron
P.S. - dany - a volunteer is a plant that sprouts without you specifically planting it or intending it to...the volunteer sprouts 'on it's own'...
I still " volunteer " for the letter to Japan
Ron we need your advices - in the past, MG amateur from DG never send such a letter ?
I think that we must defined the type of flower we are asking for.
For example :
Broken colour type - with this type of seeds the game will never be over , we can cross with all the cultivars and trying to trasmit the broken colour gene.That's the one I prefer.!
or foliage type
other type Split Personality or peony type like this
Joseph - is your bloom here more bluish or more purplish? http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5753773
Becky - I still haven't planted the Gray Fog you have given me for the above reasons: I'm afraid that they won't do well inside the house. The ones I have currently though are growing well now and establishing/getting comfortable in their "not-so-new-homes". I've not much trouble getting I. nils to bloom inside the house (the ones located in the pot), so hopefully these grays will bloom for me.
luvs - These seeds came from you =). I hope one of mine turns out like yours in the picture http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5754573. Really looking forward for blooms =)
bluespiral - were your leaves on your grays small or medium or bigger in size?
ceej1963 - Yes, I think it would be a great idea if we could get together and ask if we may have some seeds from Kyushu. I think we should also have some kind of North American organization like what the orchids people have or what the hoya people have and this will also be a great way in getting people together that have similar interest. How come there's no society for Ipomoeas that I've heard of yet in north america?
Dany that foilage is beautiful I have to say! It looks like white marble pothos, and would kill to have a plant like that in my living room corner~great work~~!!! Evr, i think we are ''it'', lol though unofficially, whatever that takes. This forum has shown me so much it is no doubt it could be the MG group for N.America if there is not one...
:D
If someone has another type of bloom to include in the list - it's now or never !
I hope that Colin will accept to make the draft letter,it's better to send the all advice on his Dmail address ( after his acceptance )
Dany
Eliz, regarding the leaves of my 2007-8 grays, they were about the same size as all the other nils, with the only small-leaved nil being Cameo Elegance in 2007 and Minibar Rose in 2008.
Also, the leaves of the grays were solid, with no variegation, and the middle leaf lobe in the emargined gray (#31-1, #31-2, #31-3, #32-3, #33-3), and one with a charcoal-gray star on pale background (#33-2) was almost the same size and shape as the left and right lobes, but a little larger. These leaves did not have a central lobe that was narrower and more elongated than the right and left lobes as seen in other nils, that is called (correct me if I'm wrong) a "cicada" shape.
There was one gray, however, that may have had the cicada-type of leaf, but I did not have the wit to take better pictures of the leaves, so can't be sure. It had a pale, blue-gray color that was diffused throughout the corolla, and there was a more delicate picotee not as sharply contrasted as the others were, and an ivory band at the throat that went into a fuchsia band that diffused back into ivory down the tube. This was vine #32-1.
The gray nil that volunteered this summer that looked like luv's, had the same shape as the emargined ones, but they were enormous, as was the vine, while the flowers stayed small but more profuse.
Dany, there were pods on some of the vines that I thought were too immature to harvest, so I left those pods and vines on the arbors where they grew over the winter. Evidently, some of those seeds fell to the ground and germinated all by themselves - like weeds! That really amazes me, considering how cold our winters get here. I certainly hope to be experimenting with wintersowing some nils from this vine's descendents in the future.
All of these grays had medium-small flowers that were generally much more profuse than the larger nils. (Some of the large-flowered nils were very profuse, however, were EmmaGrace's Velvet Plum and Rose Silk "Almost Solid", as well as Gardener2005's seedling from her I. youjiro blizzard mix that OhioBreezy thought looked just like her I. nil 'Berry Ice'.)
Y'all, when I send out seeds with a code that is unique to the vine that those seeds came from, it becomes important when the vines descended from the same parent all have different characteristics - depending on if you want to preserve that flower or cross it. So, don't throw out my labels.
(To those to whom I've promised seeds, or from whom I've already received requests, don't give up on me - am coming along, but slowly. I apologize, but can't fill new requests until next summer's harvest of MG seed.) will be back later tonight - have some doc appointments
wonderful if we could collectively aquire some seeds from Kyushu - we need to do a little research in advance, though, so we can understand which ones' reproduction involves sterile and/or non-sterile parents. I wonder if Atenkley aquired his seed from Kyushu? I don't think he used the baggy method, but instead put germinating medium in the lower 2/3 of a styrofoam coffee cup with the top 1/3 being perlite. A heating mat in cooler environments might be a good idea, with perhaps a plastic tent. Drainage would be terribly important.
Yes to a NA society for Ipomoeas, although I'd love for all species of morning glories to be included. Just thinking out loud, here - I think it would be great if it had it's own website, with members belonging to DG so that DG's PlantFiles could be referenced. It would be nice to see both DG and the MG society maintain a congenial relationship, reciprocally beneficial to both.
ps - here's a link that includes some of the grays I grew - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/795866
lol fernman. we should make it official!!! and if any of you guys do, please remember your northern neighbours in Canada....as of now, it's only redhead (she's not on this thread) from Central Canada and I from Southeastern Ontario that's actively participating in forums (me half active I'll have to say because I'm not on this forum/computer everyday). There's more out there, we just haven't found them yet lol! And don't forget the internationals like Dany and others...I know a couple of internationals that are just recently getting into mgs.... mg madness spreading like wildfire hehe
Karen, no need to apologize. I think it's an excellent idea to have them labeled like yours so others will know some kind of history where their soon-to-be plants came from.... the link you have posted where you posted your gray pics actually is a good starting point to compare grays (I went to that link first when I was searching for more info on gray heheh). Would it be possible to post pics up of dragon-fly leaf forms and cicada leaf forms and orthodox leaf forms? and possibly the colours of leaves like yellow-green or green? I get confused with these as at times they can be subjective...
I'll post more on the subject of grays and duskies...
Eliz
Eliz ,
Ron spoke of Bureaucrat Syndrome
I think it's better to play the card of the sympathic MG lover group
The ipomoeas group exist :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ipomoeas
I think it's better to play the card of the sympathetic MG lover group
srry wrong wording...I guess more like a club? not an association (I just noticed the difference now), like not so formal kinda thing where you have to pay to be a member etc.. Kinda like what luvsgrtdanes is saying....perhaps a website that has all the info put together from different sources and also a forum? No doubt this MG forum on DG is a great place but I think it'll be better if we put all info together in a coherent fashion including those mgs we have raised here. I know Japan has them like most of the sources that we have come across, but most of the pictures only capture those mgs that may only be available there. I also rarely do not find information on marketing names on such websites which I think is very important.
The yahoo groups looks very similar to DG's no?
hi all....
thanks dany but i don't think i'm the best person to write that letter.... so i'll have to decline...
just a thought... if we did get together to apply for seeds from japan... we would have to first look at the criteria for getting them in the first place... and find a way of meeting that criteria... i don't know... but for instance... if they require a research element... we could get to gether for a growout that may tell us wich varieties grow best in certain areas... when pollen isn't produced etc....(how different growing conditions effect performance)
i think they would want to know how we are going to preserve what they send... now they probably have freezers for their seeds, with occaisional grow outs to provide fresh seed for further storage etc...
i'm not saying we need to provide that... just the explaination of how we would do it... for instance we are already preserving varieties between us by regular(yearly) growouts...distribution of seeds between us.. peer reviewed identification (usually provided by ron) i could probably go on....
but i think we need an audit of what skills/knowledge/facilities we have between us... and how we would be advancing both our own knowledge/skills/etc and that of ipomoea in general.
i'll go and look at the site.....
oh and on the naming... a little ditto:
"words are just labels we use to define
but the trouble with labels is they also confine...."
calling it north american confines it to north america(not a bad idea in itself tho') and exlcudes those from elswhere....calling it a research group would confine is to research and exclude those that want grow them for other reasons... etc.
Western Ipomoea Growers.... WIG.....lol :-)... or... Geographically Challenged Ipomoea Addicts Mutual Society....lol :-))
p.s. does this subject need it's own thread.... 'cos this one's about grey nils :-s ....i've got some greys to grow so it's nice to keep the info together :-)
colin
I am aware of exactly 1 person who is a member here on Daves receiving seeds from Dr.Nitisaka and I am honoring that person's request to keep their identity private...
I agree that the discussion of the topic warrants separate threads to address the different aspects involved...
I signed up on the first Ipomoea group when it created although it didn't last long...
There are 2 other MG groups on Yahoo that are not particularly active or knowledgeable as of this point in time and space...
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ipomoea_Morning_Glory/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Morning_Glory_Vines/
The various aspects of the topic should be discussed in a thread devoted to the topic such as the one that I have started for this purpose here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/921598/
Perhaps someone else wants to start a thread about requesting seeds from Kyushu University via their annual seed distribution program coordinated by Dr.Eiji Nitasaka
TTY,...
Ron
This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 10:56 AM
thanks for the new thread ron..
As for the Greys inside my house, I planted 9 in total, 3 died only six survived. I forgot to mention that all 5 have light green hypocotyl and 1 with clear red with variegated leaves. I'm interested in seeing this one bloom in particular =). Any of you guys keep track of the hypocotyl colour?
I take note of outstanding cotyledon characteristics,but as far as 'inducing blindness / madness' by trying to differentiate minute shades and differences,no I don't...there is not always consistency in what is observable with the eyes in a hypocotyl or cotyledon and what the mature plant produces...
Here are the 'rough' seedling stem hypocotyl colors as presented by Dr.Yoneda's 'beginner' book
http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/e/Introduction/htmls/39.html
Kyushu has a more extensive documentation of the cotyledons...
Hi All,
Which level we are ?
Are we all scientific? are we capable to make a scientific report ?
Ron this member of Dave's Garden how recieve seeds from Japan , is he High level Scientific ? I think No , he is probably a MG lover how want different type or line of MG how want to meet an other MG lover ( Dr Nitisaka ) .
My objective is only esthetic.
They produce every year a big quantity of seeds . Some pics let me know that a lot of seeds are not pure line because very little garden and fool of plants . Seeds are different quality and for then only gene quality ( perhaps they have seeds of 1000 $ / piece )
We need the seeds they thow away !
Dany
Dany - I appreciate your interest in seeds from Kyushu and I am willing to contribute,but I will not contribute to any further hijacking of this thread which is Elizabeth's thread and which is specifically devoted to I.nil Gray.
Please start a new thread on the topic that you want to explore in further detail by clicking onto the post a new thread link
Thanks for your anticipated consideration...
Ron
do you think that might mean the red stemmed one is a chocolate then evr?...
thanks for the link ron :-)
