A Cool House for my Brugs

Well.. every year I keep everything up and growing inside.. in three big areas.. leaving about as much space as they take for my living.. as the collection has increased.. I've a despirate need for more space.. I thought maybe a greenhouse but it's much more work than keeping them dormant.. so I built a cool house on the roof .. one that could be made permimant if there was a siding or stucco coating put on the outside..but I'lldismantle andstore i t for the summer..
The CoolHouse.. is built of 1 1/2 " foam..slipped into the 1 1/2 " steel track..not screwed or glued in.. just slipped inot the track... thefloor/plants inside hold it down.. it's not bolted into the roof in any manner.. I just finished the double doors today.. and moved a few things in... but mostly everything is outside for another few weeks here... I'll post the first picture.. then I have a question..

OK...I was going to put a few windows in...but I thought that would have them thinking about growing too much... SO I'm shooting for about 45* F and no light... but the first night .. I left a quartz light on inside... and I noticed the ...what looks like an opaque foam.. actually transmits light quite well.. and I had a gigantic pink glowing cube on my roof..During the day I noticed it glowing inside the building... ... there was a slight... light of the sun showing through the walls pictured here... will this be too much light for dormancy..

This message was edited Oct 30, 2008 11:43 PM

I love the GH but the first thing that struck me is wind from large storms. Since this is on a rooftop, and is exposed to the elements, it seems that the GH would be very easily damaged.

Well.. it's amazingly stiff and strong.. it withstood 40 MPH winds in an incomplete form.. with out a roof and only aFEMA top to it.. water puddled in the top.. I guess there was maybe 400-500 lbs of water up there... and only minor bending of the walls .. the bent frames were replaced and the roof added.. there will be easily 600-800 lbs of plants inside when loaded.. there is some diagionalbracing on the walls to prevent twisiting.. like a sheer wall structure then.. it should be OK.. it is in the lee of astructure next door... and tucked behind and away from the front of the building that gets the brunt of winds... but I think it should weather anything that's thrown at it this winter.. I've had a 5' tall skylight ..built in the same manner.. up and weathering everything without a leak for a decade.. although it had an additional 1/4 " of stucco on the outside.. the detailing on the skylight roof structure is seen next to my new cool room in this photo...

How will you heat it in the dead of winter?

Well.. Brenda it shouldn't require much heat.. I thought a electric heater..1500 watts.. in one of the oil filled radiator looking enclosures.. The foam has an "R" value of 7.5 about 1/2 of what the insulation in a 2 x 4 framed house might have if it used a 31/2" batt of fibergass insulation.. and it has 5 times the "R" value of an 8" thick concrete block construction..
I'll have to play it by ear on this one.. and increase the heating as required.. I'll be insulating the door openings....and the solar mass of the enclosed wet dirt should help hold some heat.. I'm not sure of the solar gain I can expect on a sunny winters day though.. I'll have to watch that high end also..
OH here's the Glowing Pink Cube at night... I know they would never go dormant.. if Ikept the light on.. but the pnk glow all about the room in the day is alittle concern..

Gordon, this is going to be interesting to see what getting only the red end of the spectrum does to your Brugs. Normally, plants use both the red and the blue spectra. Have you tried coating an area with the stucco you use on the planters to see if it cuts down on light transmission?

yes...that red spectrum was a consideration also.. like an intense fall.. but if a plant gets too much red light, it will become tall and spindly. Blue light regulates plant growth, which makes it ideal for growing foliage plants and short, stocky seedlings.
Yes. I can stucco it or paint it to cut down light transmission.. but both would bond the pannels to the frames..and make it less able to be disassembled..
I know of light transmission of plastis.. basically fiberoptics.. [ but this pannel seemed so opaque..] I made [ OH..the 60's again ] a four poster bed..with the posts and the top rails of 4" square...solid clear acrylic.. the side
edges were roughed up..sanded... and I got the light to travel and glow along the roughed sides.. and the posts were compleatly clear through the oher two opposing sides.. Gells got the bed to glow in anycolor .. along with being also clear.. and I varried the strength of light with a rehostat...[dimmer]..the double bed and all sat on a chrome base.. This was designed and built an alternative to the clients request for a neon .. 4 poster bed...when I convinced her she didn't need 10,000 volts just an arms throw away.. in a moment of passion.. and it had a better quality of light...spacier.. and less honkey [tonk ] and we could easily varry the color of light.. It didn't occour to me then that I might be making her spindley also.. I think we were shooting for lucky...
just what ammount of light ..discounting color of light...should I be concerned with.... inside a dormant area... if I kept it a cool say 38*-48*F.. and should I be also concerned with color... at lowlight levels

the Flava x's are funny..both basically the same cross...but one has the fuzzy leaves of the sang genes..and is doing much better in the cold.than the same basic cross..but with the smoother leaves of the other parent.. The fuzzy seems like an insulating fur coat ot the Brug.
pictured is the flava cross with the fuzzy leaf..scarcely a yellow leaf where many the other brugs and the same cross with the smooth leaves.. have some mushey leaves from the 34*F w/wind that we've had outside here so far..

This message was edited Oct 31, 2008 9:17 AM

Very creative.

I have heard of people using Christmas tree lights to keep plants warm too. I always worry about the police coming here to see what I have growing under all the lights since my house kinda glows with purple lights. You just might attract some attention to the authorities in NYC Gordon.

Nifty idea. : ) You explained away the wind, which was my first thought, but my second one is what about the snow. Don't you get a bunch up your way. Will the weight of it collapse he roof and crush your plants?

Not sure how much Christmas lights heat above the ground, but they do work good for heating below to start cuttings with.

You did an amazing job though. : )

:) Yeah, what kinda brug brothel you runnin up there, Gordon? I would want even lower light level if you are wanting to keep them dormant.. they will grow with 40-80 degree temps and just a little more than dim light.. I'm glad you are confident about force winds later in the winter.. I wouldn't get any sleep on a windy night... I imagine you are putting many many brugs in there.. Man, just one loose panel on a frigid day would wipe them out.. sounds too scarey for me.. are there bottom braces connected to the wall supports? (I just keep envisioning Auntie Em's farm house (your coolhouse) being blown away) yikes! Star, you bury those little lites?

I know .. wizard of oz. I sure hope not, but it if works andit holds she wil have somethign evrybody in town will wanting her to make em for them.

Aunt B. Nope ya don't bury them. I just put on a metal tray and then raise the flat I am trying to root up a few inches. I am terrible at finding threads, but have one somewhere where Gloria showed us how to to it. When I find it will let ya know and show it to ya.

Thanks, Star! I'm really not trying to be a negative nelly, on the coolhouse, I'm just skeered for Gordon's beauties! I hope it works.

I'm scared for her too. That alot of precious babies and work in them. I got a feeling we will be holding our breath right along side of her all winter, praying that everything goes good. : )

Well, to be on the safe side, some of us could take a few cuttings and that way if they blew away or get crushed by snow, she will be able to start over again. ^_^

LOL! I'm just being crazy! It's FRIDAY!

Gordon, could you put masking tape on the panels where they meet the studs and then spray paint the foam. That would only leave a small strip that would glow.
You could also wrap the outside with a big tarp.

What an amazing structure... but like the others, I would be very afraid that a high wind would decimate them all... We need to be ready to resupply her if need be... but I will offer up a huge prayer that all will be wonderful...

Carolyn

I like LiliMerci's idea the best ;) Gordon, ya have me praying for you, too! But I know you wouldn't go into this half-heartedly..too much at stake.. Actually, crazy4 has some great ideas.

Linda..Yes.. I'd thought of the tarp as the way to go.. it's real easy...but noisey however...still thinking about it..
Lili...didn't you write in for some... there was a post to do so this week..
Brenda...well they can comefor the tour..and be put to sleep like everyone else.. after 1/2 an hour.. we did get a flyby with the police chopper.. but then we hoisted the flag and they left..
MMMM purple lights..that's a new one for me.. what part of the plant growth do you address with purpe lights..fertility
Star.. well yes snow load is a consideration... we usually don't get much... and as the highest thing about most will get blown off... I was sitting up on its roof today.. so it's not without great strength.. it is after all steel framing all be it a light guage.. it will bend and distort.. pull away but never break.. as I posted earlier.. there were many hundreds of pounds of water suspended between the walls.. and they just bent maybe a few inches .. oh.. and the pronoun him might be more to the point here..
Bonnie..oh..brothel.. come up to the Pink Room and find out.. I'd better worry before sleep.. once I'm that close to it.. there is nothing else.. I too am a bit worried about the ammount of light.. I was in there today.. doors closed and there was enough light to read..I'll do something I just haven't figured out just what yet.. The pannels are just pressed in to the chanels but I bet you and 5 friends couldn't pull it straight out... and no glue or attachment is there... just a tight fit..
Might be a good place to run an office pool.. as to how long it will last... I'll cover all bets with it being the city that has it down.. before natural occourances.. I'm billing it as a roof light now..
Carolyn.. thanks for the prayers... and resupply... I am running a bit low on her.. although aganst wise councel... I should line some more up..
There is another design element I'm looking to maxamise.. and that's heat transfer through the steel framing... cold outside radiating inside.. or inside heat
leaving through the seel to the outside..as it's heat that moves.. other times I've had an additional covering on it.. but I was trying to cut it down here so it would disassemble... but perhaps something that would address that and give more darkness could work for both issues..and be covered...
thanks all for the consideraton here... I've never delt with dormancy.. as I've never had a cool place before to start it with...

A regular tarp would be noisy , but what about some of that black gardening type tarp. The kind that you see along sides of th eroad to hold back dirt banks and such til the grass grows up and holds it in place. That stuff is thick and solid and wouldn't make noise I don't think.

YES..There isashrink wrap that is used on boats.. Karen [ Cocobid ]is covering her hoop house with it.. it's terribly strong.. and once you heat it up it shrinks down tight on what is underneath... she's useing their clear for the greenhouse.. but it also comes in blue and white also..http://www.sailorsams.com/mall/dr-shrink-shrink-wrap.asp
I've got some 40% shadecloth... I guess if Icut the light about in 1/2 from what it is I'd be close also...

Gordon, I know you know this.. but be careful with too wet soil around your almost dormant brugs.. they will probably not be totally dormant at 45 degrees. I just wanted to warn you, it IS the cause for more winter brug loss than cool houses being sucked off rooftop gardens in NY... will watch to see what you end up with.. very interesting and clever. So.. is it worth all the fuss? You bet cha!

I was just teasing about the brug cuttings. I honestly don't need anymore. Between the brugs and the plumerias, I don't know where I'm going to store all of them.

It is looking pretty good my friend, nice you have a new place for your babies!

Just another thought. What about putting black plastic on the inside walls and ceiling.
That would cut the light and maybe stop the heat-cold transfer on the studs.
Has the building inspector 'red flagged' you yet?

yes..good idea..Iwas insidelast evening..without heat just being out of the wind made it warmer.. a dozen years ago there wasabuilding inspector by...got tickets for illegal plant storage... and that was in the middle of the summer... went and beat my ticket... I haven't seen them since...

Gordon, Illegal plant storage??? Zoning here thought I had lots of tall weeds everywhere until they bloomed.

Can't you put a tarp on & duct tape it (like a Christmas package) so it doesn't flutter & make noise? I think paint would be easier & there shouldn't be too much light if you only paint up to a couple inches away from the metal (the amount of light getting in would be insignificant then, I think) & you could still take it apart without it being all stuck together. I'd put some strips of bat insulation (with more tape to hold it) on the inside covering the metal to keep the heat from escaping.

My plants spend the winter in my friend's unheated basement (a really good friend to let me put about 150 plants there). They get some light from small windows & they stay dormant until spring. I think the temp, not just the amount of light puts them into dormancy or semi-dormancy. I've never put in a thermometer to see what temps they get to but I guess I ought to find out. The rest of mine are on my now plastic-enclosed front porch with an added patio door. We stapled (by we I mean my DH) a layer of white light-filtering house wrap on the outside & then another layer of 2 or 3 ml painters plastic on the inside so there is about a 6 inch dead air space in between. It is really warm out there so far & a lot brighter than I expected (too warm, I'm afraid). It's been in the 20s & we had 45 mph winds with no heater (DH needs a thermostat) & the brugs are still blooming. I have buckets of cuttings there too & a cage of pet quail. Next, I'll be putting up vertical blinds over the door to see if that cools it off. On the plus side, it has made the front rooms of the house much warmer (1924 house) & I'm (DH again) going to do the back porch too so I can stuff a few more in there & maybe free up a path to the dining room this year. LOL

Linda

HA HA HA LINDA.. a pah to the dinning room.. yes.. that's the ticket... I've had alot of luck giving guests a GPS so there is less fear of getting lost finding the bathroom.. or going from the kitchen to the bedroom.. Iv'e a bit of stucco I might run on the outside.. it will help withthe light.. and will protect it from UV deteroration... but it might be to cold already for it.. I think paint is better to apply in the lower temperatures..
Wellnice the heat leaks are going somewhere useful this year.. I wish I had more room to keep and grow out everything....sounds great there to me .. with or with out a path..
HA..zoneing.. wouldn't know a coveted brug... from a weed... but what if you were into big tall weeds .. you be --- out of luck.. All this in the Home of the Free... and the NEW land of the get in line.. or as it looks.. the get into the Line..
yes.. I need a thermostat myself.. the heaters have a general level of thermostat.. but Iwant something that will have it come on at 38.. shut down at 45*f orsome like setting... putting it on say3 on the dial doesn't tell me much.... andIhave to get my weather station up and running again...it is helpful to though not so much for the rain guage.. and annimomenter.. although it is nice to know what you're induring.. but to remotely monitor the outside temps.. and the temperature in the cool house.. it will WIFIit to a display above the computer .. .and I have a program that will chart it on the computer as far as swings and highs/lows when I'm not about.. then I could check in on it if I'm away.. through remotely logging into my machine... but it is probuabally time best spent elsewhere...

OK>>Bonnie... I've reconsidered the brothel aspect of the Big Pink Rooms.. just sitting in there.. .I picture the beach out in front.. water behind the palms..

Me thinks the Cool House is warming up!!!

What no wine???

Gordon What about using aluminum foil and use straight pins or tack on the inside of your "Brothel" hehe

Not joking about the foil would it not work and if you over lap the frame. first piece lap over and tack and then lap the next piece over that and tack. That should help with the light and losing any heat. Might be a tad expensive? You could possible go to a restaurant supply and get one or two of the huge boxes they have. Or maybe even Sam's warehouse.

If too expensive to do would it at least be a feasible idea?

I love this whole idea.

Sandy

Ooh, La, La! Love the pink play palace.

.... foil would transfer the heat.. I do like the idea of just painting the center areas of the pink... would reduce light and not seal your edges for disassembling in the spring. I too have concerns for a strong wind doing the disassembling a bit earlier than you plan though. I live in west Texas where we have unexpected high winds frequently ... I would hate to see your wonderful collection unexpectedly frozen one cold windy night.

I think you've used valuable brug space with those pillows and makeshift candle table... created kind of a 'man-made space'... less natural on the "glow" part with the candles and all... but it's your space, Gordon... I think the general thought is, we're all VERY concerned about your brug inventory being unexpectedly and instantly frozen in the dead of winter.. now I could share any or all my brugs to help get your inventory started again next Spring, but you are working with some cool brugs and I doubt I have any you are working with.. so guess we just want you to take any and all precaution... (prolly give up on the brothel idea and go strictly on the "cool house" brug storage idea?)...imho...

Gordon, what about using calking to fill in the cracks. It woudl hold for the winter and not that hard to pull back off in the spring when ya want to take it down.

Also, don't know if where you at there are Lowe's or Home Depots or not. But either in the painting section or sometimes back in the area by where the insulation and stuff are. They sell rolls of 6ml plastic. I cover my gh with the clear, but they also have a black too. It come sin several sizes and widths and runs from about 20 bucks to 70 bucks which is the 100' x 25' which i get for my gh's. It thick and holds up well. I took mine off in the spring and wa sable to put it back up again this fall and the hickory and oak nuts and leaves and limbs all fll on it and it still holds. I just tac it with pieces of a smallcut up piece of tarp strips and a staple gun. Works great.

Well.. I'm tapeing the metal..down to 1/4 " onto the foam... and stuccoing it all.. I can pull off the tape in the spring andpull the pannels apart ..
Yes..Bonnie... I must admit the pillows in the valuable space were just for your benefit.. but I must say me and some of the boys have been having out boys club meeting inthere the last few days... tweeking the concept for beach living.. or perhaps as an ice fishing house......for that kindof weather conditions you'd remake it with another layer of foam.. TheSangs..Flava crosses [ as the word is they don't do dormancy very well ]and some of the more treasured will still be inside with me for the winter... not to worry too much there..
Karen... thanks for the lovely offer...of the cube...but nowhere ..there or on other sites listing it.. does it give the load rating of the unit..I'm running a1500 watt heater.. which is quite large...the deicers it says the cubes are for are a small solid state devices ..so I'll not takeit from you... although the offer...and the range there seem great... can you make out from the box what it's capacity is.. I'd like something that can carry the 1500 watts I have...as well as a cushion of a few100 watts for cool operation .. like your second ..larger unit has a stated capacity of 1800 watts... just about what I figure such a unit should be rated to for me... but thanks for the link to it...seems perfect.. and all plug in..although hard wireing is not a problem here..
well up to the roof and perhaps my helper has finished the seams.. and we can get a coat of stucco on .. and still get to the sending out the cuttings....wouldn't you knowit.. I'd asked USPS to send me the priority boxes.. and they sent 1/2 the order [ the smaller boxes I'd ordered... ] ... so I've been cutting them in1/2.. making new ends for the cut side.. and now the cuttings can only be 12" long.. and no large branching ones and nothing over about 4" in diam.either. oh well...

Gordon unfortunately it wasn't in a box, only that hard plastic shell and I had to cut it out of the package...I threw it away :(

If you change your mind let me know.

Gordon, love your pink plant palace. Purchased some styrofoam planks recently and hope to get started on a few projects soon. Thank you for sharing your flower pot designs.....My first project, two LSU flower pots for my daughter. I'll email you a photo when completed.

Hi Dolly..sounds like a great project.. ... it's real easy once you getthe hang of it... be sureto callif you have any questions.. the hot line is always open.. well the pink palace is only pink on the inside now.. Istuccoed the outside.. andpainted the roof today.. inanefforeto cut down light..transmitted through the foam.. and I guess it no longer glows if I light the inside.. but I did get it alldone today.. whit the help of my sidekick ..which means I didn't get to the packaging andmailing out the cuttings today as I'd imagined.. yours will go out on Wednesday.. lookfor them I'd guess Saturday...The cannas I'd not worry about.. but I hate to think of the cuttings in the mail for too long..
so big LSU lettering on the front I'd guess.. will it be in the school colors also ..
OH..Ido havea question.. maybe you know the answer to.. Iwasgoing to post it seperately.. Ihave a cutting I'm sending you.. it wastagged Angels Moonlight.. Isaw one for sale on e-bay today.. and it lookes to be a light yellow single flower... mine is a double white.. a long thin flower with extra long descending lower trumpet.. ..so is this a mis named plant... or is it usually a double.. sowhen you see it as Angels Moonlight .. that's what it will look like... shown below.. well best there...