Best Orange Brugmansia List

Langenbuscher Garten ... personally grown this one and it is exceptional in growth, blooming habit, color, pollen, receptivity to pollen, etc. Beats Herrenhauser Garten Hands down.

Please post your favorite orange single or double and at least one other Brugmansia you are comparing it to. I'm looking for the darkest oranges, but if you wish to list an orange that is not the darkest orange, please list why you think it is exceptional.
For me, Goldenes Kornett would make the list as even though she only shows orange on a rare blue moon, she is a pure aurea with gold genes as well which makes her an exceptional breeder given the fact that she also blooms almost nonstop one she starts, has exceptional receptivity to pollen.... every pod takes, and nice fluffy pollen.

I like New Orleans Lady and Flame.Both are lighter than the one in your picture but,as far as I know,that one isn't available here.Both NOL and Flame have strong fragrance, excellent shape and unlike Herrenhauser Garten,these actually bloom regularly.

Here is Pumpkin. Unfortunately, I got a little excited when I thought it had SB and I tossed it quickly, so I don't know if there are people out there that still have her or not. Pumpkin is a Champagne Fizz x Inca Sun cross that I did about 5 years ago.

Champagne Fizz, top
Pumpkin, middle
Inca Sun, bottom (not the best picture)

I can't find the pic I had of Autumn Treasure, but that got really orange for me. Fantastic Fragrance also. A little shy with the tendrils though.

Brugie, excellent example of how lighter colored Brugmansia can throw out some beautiful darker colors. Pumpkin was a beauty from what I can tell. I'm not as familiar with the crosses as I used to be, but I'd be willing to bet some of that orange from Insignis Orange came through on this one. Charles Grimaldi also hides some orange if memory serves me, but it is probably also the source of your weaker genes. This is a clear example of why it is important to look at the parents to see what is hiding in the back ground for me. Lighter colors or even creme colored Brugmansia are well worth working with if you know some orange is hiding and you like other traits that Brugmansia has to offer. I really like what you've done by placing both parents along with the baby. We need more pictures like this. Come on guys, lets get to posting some pictures and some more favorites. I'm looking to try to figure out what crosses I might want to make when I get back to the States as well as which ones I can make over here so Alan and everyone else from Europe please post!

Eric, you mentioned that Charles Grimaldi "is probably also the source of your weaker genes". Were you referring to how it affected "Pumpkin"? Or weaker genes in general and if so, what effects concern you. I don't know if I'm asking this properly. I guess what I'm asking is what concerns you about Charles Grimaldi when it is used in a cross?

Shirley here's a pic of the latent orange in Charles G. It came out last year when we brought a branch indoors for a brug bouquet in late October. The same plant is blooming bright yellow today.
- Tom

I liked Mountain Harvest very much, loved the scalloped skirt and she had strong color orange for me here in Florida, but i guess she did not have the same result of color in different areas of the US and i followed the wish of the Hybridizer and composted her as she did not want her to be released, Hybridizer did not think the Quality was good enough and that was a very ethical decision on her part.

One more Picture of Mountain Harvest, i do miss her,

Very interesting ...and yes the parents!
Love that Charles G shot great posting a picture is worth a thousand words sometimes ...
thanks everyone ...very very cool info.

I don't think LG can be beat!!!!!!!! Vigorous, bug resistant, super healthy! Citricy fragrance here! The Best Double Orange I have ever have seen!

Desiree...if you don't mind aging to a crusty wrinkle and having your bones turn to dust before you get a bloom.
I only sell this Brug to people under the age of 13, accompanied by a parent.

Eric...you old instigator...
How about sending me one incognito, air express, wrapped in a flannel nightie. My birthday is in two weeks.
;-)

Won't I look sweet lying in bed with my blinders on, flannel nightie all crisp and new AND my new Bruggie cuttings by my side?
Call The Hef! I see a centerfold coming!
;-)

I have nice orange blooms on my Ludgers Windsong tonight. If I am lucky I will have blooms on my LG next year, it is just a baby now.

Excuse my old basement, but the brugs seem very happy down there.

WOW!!! Brenda!
I am totally jealous!
In the basement?

I have made a grow room in the basement. Lots of grow lights, humidity control, fans. So far everything is very happy down there.

Burgele, This was a very beautiful hybrid and very nice orange. What you have to remember is that when a hybridizer does not want something released and you have grown it and they also don't wish to work with it.... there is nothing stopping you from working with that hybrid so long as you respect that hybridizers wish not to release the hybrid they developed. Brugmansia frequently do not bloom the same intensity in the same area much less in different area's of the country. With that said, this hybrid and other hybrids that have orange either hidden in them or that very rarely show orange are still excellent for breeding oranges. It sure as heck beats trying to get an orange out of two pinks at any rate. Take this train to one more stop please. Okay, next stop will be virus prone or otherwise sickly brugmansia. Do we hybridize with them? The answer depends on how much work you think the hybrid is worth and how much you have that you are willing to lose. The brave person who has nothing to lose or who wants to make a mark might work with a virus prone or otherwise sickly Brugmansia in hopes of clearing out those genes and making a superior hybrid. You have to ask yourself, is this plant worth it? What qualities or quality does it have that I am not able to find from another single source. Sometimes its qualities and not a single quality which may prompt you to work in that direction. Take Rothkirch one of my favorites. She is virus prone as are many Brugmansia which is why serious growers over here in Europe like Gommer only work with virus free specimens and pay labs to test for virus and grow out specimens that are virus free before allowing them to enter their gardens. Quinde is another that is hard to find as it is also prone to virus and therefore hard to root. Serious breeders over here will take their infected plants and send them off to get cured via culturing and get rid of the infected plants. Still, is it smart to keep those plants? The answer for me is what does it hurt? If I can't root some of my Brugmansia because of a virus... the result is that I am only able to give out plants that do not have the virus or who otherwise are carriers, but not affected by the virus. Selection of the fittest...only the strongest survives. The bottom line is if you don't cull virus prone or sickly Brugmansia then you are encouraging weaker Brugmansia. If you breed with these Brugmansia your desire should be to select out these virus or sickly prone jeans so as to give the Brug world at large better material and safer genetics. I have come up with a few theories on how some of these sickness came to be so rampant with my own experiments. We all have different tastes and what I love someone else may detest. With that said, if a hybridizer detests what you have grown from and for them then you must still follow your own heart to a certain extent. If you love that Brugmansia and it has traits are perfectly mingled as to make your perfect dream Brugmansia then keep it for your own hybridizing or simply as a keep sake in memory of that hybridizer. I do not condone releasing a Brugmansia from another to the general public and I sure as heck don't condone not asking the hybridizer if they want first cuttings, first pollen, or even first seed pod,... these things should be worked out ideally with each hybridizer though as some will have some specific criteria that they wish for you to agree to and this criteria once agreed to should be binding no matter how outlandish you may later think it to be. This is why it is good to have a list of the restrictions and so forth before you offer to grow out another person's hybrids. Think of it this way, do you really want to grow out 100 seedlings if you know you will have to trash them all potentially? For me, I at least want the right to work with anything the hybridizer does not want to work with. This is not the same mind you as releasing it. Note: many hybridizers may be persuaded to send you cuttings for trial or even cuttings they never intend to release if you express an interest in that particular type of cross. They are doing this as a favor to you realizing that the main benefit is genetic variability or some other such thing such as a single trait that is exceptional and worth breeding for, but not good enough or different enough as a whole to warrant releasing it. I have been sent Brugmansia that have bloomed and considered noteworthy, but not different enough or exceptional enough to name. Think of it this way, if someone else creates a hybrid that is identical to Langenbuscher Garten in almost every single way.... it would be a shame not to breed with it. It would also be a shame to release it as the two would be too close to each other. If this was done unintentionally or simply because the person was new or had not seen that other hybrid then sure.... enough rambling. Still, I could think of a lot of good things coming out of Langenbuscher x Langenbuscher. Miniature horizontal dark orange aurea doubles.... oh, yeah!

Theraglady, I was hoping someone would post some of Ludger's hybrids. He has some exceptional hybrids with some exceptional genes hidden in them from what I can tell. Don't try to get it out of me though as I'm not talking on that one. I'll leave that talking to someone else who studies crosses and seedlings.

Eric in an earlier post you expressed concern about Charles Grimaldi having or contributing "weaker genes". What did you mean by that. What traits?

I'm really enjoying your posts. Thanks for taking the time to share all this great information.

This message was edited Oct 28, 2008 3:31 PM

Yes thankyou ...your information and ideas are invaluable.

GoldRush

Topaz

Halloween

Sacajawea
Great tendrils on this one :-)

Crikey! there's gold in them there hills!
Gosh how beautiful.

Alice, I love the shape of Topaz's blooms. Mine hasn't bloomed yet, so I'm really looking forward to next year. Oh, to have Topaz's shape with Sacajawea's tendrils.!

Jazzy is a nice Orange from one of Ludger's crosses that Brenda at Seedsprout introduced. I like Ludger's Windsong as well because of its unique form.

Bernstein has been a deep orange down here this summer -

Kudos to you Alice, they are so beautiful, My Sacajawea is tall 59inches has y'd and i am watching 5inch Buds with great anticipation. she has a good start to be a Standard.

Thank you, Christa.
She makes a gorgeous standard. I am happy she has done well for you :-)
I hope you will post some photos when she blooms.
I really really like this one.

I hope Topaz blooms well for you bettydee. She got pretty beat up here by Ike.
She is inside now, so trying to get her to bloom again.
Alice

Great pictures, Alice. It's a shame that GoldRush doesn't bloom very heavy. LOL! Wow...what a sight it must be in person. All cultivars are gorgeous. You must be filling that newer greenhouse up pretty fast with all of your beautiful brugs.

Gosh, Eric.
It looks you got a number of good "oranges".
Probably more than you expected .. :-) ..lol

Hi Shirley,
GoldRush is a heavy bloomer. How she got her name, really ...lol
Yes, she is amazing to see :-)

Look at these orange blooms from. My basement today. Ludgers Summer Dream

Olympic Flame just opening.

Another picture of Windsong, Orange right up to the calyx.

Ocre is another hybrid of wild origin that I suspect of having weaker disease prone genes. Where do I get all of this stuff? I pay attention to the hybridizers and growers and their remarks. This is not to say you can't grow and keep these hybrids disease free. People like Gommer and others pay to make sure their plants are disease free and then get rid of them and pay to have a lab grow those plants out again if they should get sick again. Some truly remarkable hybrids have been created using Charles Grimaldi, Ocre, etc. Take Mango Crush. I love that one, unfortunately... it has a double dose of Ocre genes from both sides and is prone to SB as well. You can take two roads. One road taken is to use these hybrids that are prone and yet so beautiful and realize that you may just be hiding these genes out in your seedlings for them to rear their heads in future seedlings. You can do this by crossing your plants that have Ocre in the mix to other hybrids that do not have Ocre in the mix. Or, you can be more adventurous and daring and try to cross hybrids with Ocre in their gene pool to others with Ocre. You may get plants that are disease free, prone to disease, and a few that are not prone to disease. So we have the run and hide method which may actually work if you continue to out cross until the genes are left in the dust, but you will never know for if the disease prone genes are simply hiding and waiting for a future cross with a sibling or some such to allow them to rear their ugly heads again. I would rather work with healthy genes myself unless they hybrid is truly spectacular or had some other noteworthy trait. Personally, I like many of the oranges above and I have my idea's about them that are continually changing. I see some very dark oranges and some complex mixtures of color like Mango Crush and I realize that we are dealing with multiple genes for color. I haven't gotten it all figured out, but statistically speaking I am guessing that a simple light orange x light orange cross should yield one very dark orange in one out of 256 seedlings. Now, take statistics for what they are and realize that you can flip a penny and it can land on heads. The next time you flip the penny the chances that it will land on heads is still 50%. Flip it again and you have a 50% chance it will land on heads again. Still, you could in theory flip a penny 100 times and still not have it land on heads... so much for statistics. What this means is that if you are trying for complex traits such as substance, blooming ability, color, etc.... all of which you want to improve in your next seedling it is sheer luck to expect one out of 13 to be exceptional in all of these traits. Sure, it happens. You could grow out one seedling and get the next Langenbuscher Garten replacement that excels in all traits. Still, genetics being what it is, I'd rather see someone cross their two favorites and grow out one cross than to take their chances with multiple crosses and hope for a good crap shoot. In the end, they will be much happier with their results and so will everyone else. If you like oranges or yellows as much as I do, then my best advise is to find the basic shape and form that you like in the color that you like and cross it to another with the same or complementary form that you wish to incorporate into your mix. You really don't need a dark orange to get a dark orange. You can go with a white that shows orange on a rarity and cross it to another light orange and get a dark orange if you grow out enough seedlings. I'm a firm believer that a full seed pod of a single cross will not give you everything you will want from a cross and taking the two or three best seedlings and crossing them to each other and back to their parents is the way to go. Either that or cross them to an exceptional new hybrid that is super dark in orange genes if orange is the main thing you are after. Add in pink or some other color and you will have to grow out more and it is better to work with a hybrid that either is pink and has orange hidden in it or a pink that has visible orange showing in it rather than one that may have white hidden in it.

I agree with what Eric has said but I would add the following.The charisterics of crosses between "pure" species.can be predicted with a fair degree of certainty.See Mendel's law.It's when you get into crossing multi hybrids,or crossing "pure" to multi-hybrids,that all of that goes out the window.Then it is a little skill and a lot of luck.I would also encourage anyone to grow a few crosses if that is all the room they have available.After all,that penny even lands on edge once in a great while.The one you have may be "the one".

Those that land on the edge... thats what we are really after and you can get that with a pure x pure or a pure x multi-hybrid. Those desirable recessive genes and mutations are not to be overlooked and is a good reason for making a back cross or to cross a sibling to a sibling. There is a lot to be said for those with a fine eye for detail in picking out those traits that may be cumulative in nature as well. This is the way I look at it, " You can grow 3 different crosses and only 3 of each and still get one that beats anything I have in a single seed pod of flowers from one of the exact same crosses. Thats what makes it fun and exciting. You never know what your going to get." It may seem like I contradict myself at times and in fact I do as I see how much can be gained from those few who are willing to grow out even one seedling.... when you take the totality of everyone doing this and sharing their plants/results then you can have 1000 seedlings of the same cross and several that merit being introduced and worked with. This is where some of the best hybrids come from. Those few growers who grow out just a handful or less of seedlings and send a cutting back to the hybridizer to compare and to the hybridizers dismay they find out that one or two of his growers have produced much better than they have produced in their garden of many. Still, the work has been done and can continue. I like the pure species for the certainty they help to bring back into those hybrids that are very mixed up. With that said, any one of these oranges posted could be crossed to each other and one could expect with reasonable certainty of getting a darker orange than even Langenbuscher Garten if one simply got lucky or grew out enough seedlings. However, it always makes sense to go with those that are darkest in color or that show other traits such as substance, ease of flowering/rooting, etc. if one is trying to create a better hybrid. You have to pick complementary hybrids. Elizabeth, one of J.T.'s hybrids would be best as a seed parent with any of these oranges to create a better orange if you were going after substance and dark orange. You might even be able to straighten out H.G. with Elizabeth as the mom.

This message was edited Nov 1, 2008 3:10 PM

That makes perfect sense to me Eric ...thankyou. ^_^

Chrissy, what makes even more sense is using Goldenes Kornett as the pollen parent to any one of these as you would be sure to get golds, oranges, yellows, etc. Yes, I'm biased, but I like the idea of Goldenes Kornett for other reasons as well. Vienna Silver Star her variegated sport comes to mind and I'd like to see more orange doubles with variegation. I have a few variegates with orange in the mix and I just may have to produce a few more oranges without any concern about creating a multi-hybrid or not.

Thanks for reminding me I have GK Pollen Eric!!!!